My moderation plan ...

[biravatch65]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I'm an accomplished drinker, but there's no way I could approach a 12 pack of beer ... I'd be too full. In the last 30+ years of drinking I don't believe I've ever done that.

Likewise with wine, the tannins would tear my stomach up.

I maybe wrong I just can't imagine myself getting trashed on either at this point. That's not to say down the road these beverages couldn't become equally as problematic as hard alcohol, but not at this moment in time.

We'll see ... if it doesn't workout and my alcohol consumption is still a problem, I'll quit for good.

From my experience, those 'negatives' of beer and wine were never enough to stop me. I would essentially drink no matter what. If I were too full from beer, I just wouldn't eat.

Something to ask yourself is why is alcohol in any form so important to you knowing full well that beer and wine can become equally as problematic for you at some point?

[joedris]

Why do you feel you need a moderation plan? Normal people dont think that way. They don't consider that they need to moderate or control their drinking because they don't have a drinking problem. If you feel that such a plan is needed then perhaps you should take a deep, honest look at your drinking before bothering with some "ingeneous" plan to solve your problem.

[towhere]

Wow this thread is still going. One of my best friends is a recovered alcoholic and trust me he was in bad shape. At this point, he can easily have 3-4 beers or some wine with friends once every 2 weeks or so.

That said, he did stay sober for 1 year and in that time completely changed his life, the people around him, priorities etc. That is the hard part, and takes an extremely strong will. Many can't do it yes, but it's not impossible.

I'm not saying to jump from alcoholism to moderation either. You still have to take that first step, get sober, and evaluate your life and what's important. At that point you may not want to drink anyway. Good luck to you pboy.

[OceanBound]

Originally Posted by Pboy

For example, what if I decided to drink on non-work day nights only, leave my house with a predetermined amount of money and leave my debit and CC's home, take taxis, etc ...

I'd call it an obsession.

Good luck with the experiment! And I mean it sincerely but odds are definitely against you.
OB

[Ago]

Originally Posted by towhere

Wow this thread is still going. One of my best friends is a recovered alcoholic and trust me he was in bad shape. At this point, he can easily have 3-4 beers or some wine with friends once every 2 weeks or so.

recovered alcoholics can't/don't drink, it's a non sequiter, or an oxymoron like Military Intelligence, recovered heavy or hard drinkers can however

[towhere]

Originally Posted by Ago

recovered alcoholics can't/don't drink, it's a non sequiter, or an oxymoron like Military Intelligence, recovered heavy or hard drinkers can however

You know I was going to argue, but you are right. Definition of alcoholism involves drinking alone. He never did that.. life was one big party. Wake, drink, throw up, drink some more, black out, cycle repeats. Despite the damage to his loved ones and body over the years (lots of blood loss even) he continued.

I still consider that behavior to be indicative of alcoholism but no matter, he went to AA, filled whatever void was in is life and became a better person.

Thanks for making your point, appreciated and understood.

I like "Planned Surprise"

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by biravatch65

Something to ask yourself is why is alcohol in any form so important to you knowing full well that beer and wine can become equally as problematic for you at some point?

I'm not sure that alcohol per se is that important to me. As I stated in an earlier thread, "I rarely buy alcohol outside of a bar environment, and was giving gifts of alcohol that sat in my house unopened for years".

It's the social circles I developed over time that I think I'll miss the most.

[NewMe11109]

Pboy -

Make your moderation plan.

Try it and be honest with yourself as to how you do.

If it works, I am thrilled for you.

If not, we are here for you. Only you can decide. Good luck!

[xge910]

yo dude,

my $0.02 for what it is worth.....

Changing what you drink is rather pointless. Be it beer or bourbon,
it is a drug delivery system. I will grant you that beer will make one
feel full, but lets not bulls%^& each other, ya drink for the buzz. Now
I will also concede that (IMHO) sparkling drinks (beer, champagne or
cocktail made with a carbonated beverage) may have more of an initial
kick. However you are still doing a D R U G. I sort of look at it like this.
With speed or cocaine, you can snort it, smoke or shoot it, but no matter
how you do it, you are still doing the drug. Some folks even take there
alcohol from the other end(enemas).

Now my self and some other people here talk about moderation
(tip-o-the-hat to Mr. Sikkisirus Rockstar). While others have found
that the only way to control is by not drinking at all. To each her/his
own way. But changing what you drink is not dealing with the
underlining issues, patterns, habits and behaviors in your drug use.

For me, well moderation seems to be working... so far....., then again
I was not as far "down the road" as a lot of people. For me I began
to see certain patterns, habits and behaviors in my drinking that worried
me. I was drinking W A Y to much and to often. Sort of snuck up on
me. Saw I needed to change what I was doing. I stopped for a bit, about
3-4 weeks this past spring. Dealt with a bit of detox, no sleep, shaky
hands, feeling the need to have a drink, but after 4-5 days I got past it.

Now days i am much more proactive and careful about my drinking.
Some of the changes I have made are: Not sitting home alone drinking.
The problem with drinking alone is you do not have that frame of
reference that you have when in the company of others (ie: you do not
notice how drunk you are.). Not drinking every day, and this is one that
took me a bit to deal with, as it seems like it is almost ok to go home at
the end of a day and have a drink, and it is, SOMETIMES, but not every
blinking day!

For me, changing my drinking was a bit like going on a diet. For a diet to
be successful one must change their eating patterns, habits and behaviors.
Alcohol is also a food as well as a drug, some people find that ice cream is
almost like a drug. When one is on a diet they need to cut out some foods
for a while, too many potato chips(beer) or too much ice cream makes (hard
liqueur) make ya fat. Ya got cut it out for a bit till you get the weight under
control. Does this mean you can never eat chips or ice cream ever again?,
perhaps for some.

Last point is, now that I do not drink as much or has often, when I do drink
I get more of a buzz from a L O T less. One or two drinks, and I have all
the buzz I want or need.

Your strange net pal
Belinda!

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by xge910

yo dude,

my $0.02 for what it is worth.....

Changing what you drink is rather pointless. Be it beer or bourbon,
it is a drug delivery system. I will grant you that beer will make one
feel full, but lets not bulls%^& each other, ya drink for the buzz. Now
I will also concede that (IMHO) sparkling drinks (beer, champagne or
cocktail made with a carbonated beverage) may have more of an initial
kick. However you are still doing a D R U G. I sort of look at it like this.
With speed or cocaine, you can snort it, smoke or shoot it, but no matter
how you do it, you are still doing the drug. Some folks even take there
alcohol from the other end(enemas).

Now my self and some other people here talk about moderation
(tip-o-the-hat to Mr. Sikkisirus Rockstar). While others have found
that the only way to control is by not drinking at all. To each his/her
own way. But changing what you drink is not dealing with the
underlining issues, patterns, habits and behaviors in your drug use.

For me, well moderation seems to be working... so far....., then again
I was not as far "down the road" as a lot of people. For me I began
to see certain patterns, habits and behaviors in my drinking that worried
me. I was drinking W A Y to much and to often. Sort of snuck up on
me. Saw I needed to change what I was doing. I stopped for a bit, about
3-4 weeks this past spring. Dealt with a bit of detox, no sleep, shaky
hands, feeling the need to have a drink, but after 4-5 days I got past it.

Now days i am much more proactive and careful about my drinking.
Some of the changes I have made are: Not sitting home alone drinking.
The problem with drinking alone is you do not have that frame of
reference that you have when in the company of others (ie: you do not
notice how drunk you are.). Not drinking every day, and this is one that
took me a bit to deal with, as it seems like it is almost ok to go home at
the end of a day and have a drink, and it is, SOMETIMES, but not every
blinking day!

For me, changing my drinking was a bit like going on a diet. For a diet to
be successful one must change their eating patterns, habits and behaviors.
Alcohol is also a food as well as a drug, some people find that ice cream is
almost like a drug. When one is on a diet they need to cut out some foods
for a while, too many potato chips(beer) or too much ice cream makes (hard
liqueur) make ya fat. Ya got cut it out for a bit till you get the weight under
control. Does this mean you can never eat chips or ice cream ever again?,
perhaps for some.

Last point is, now that I do not drink as much or has often, when I do drink
I get more of a buzz from a L O T less. One or two drinks, and I have all
the buzz I want or need.

Your strange net pal
Belinda!

Thanks for your reply, Belinda

My typical over indulgence usually goes like this.

I go to one of a few neighborhood bars with the intent of having a few cocktails after work. I typically get involved in conversation with someone I know. A few cocktails turn into more plus shots often resulting in more frequency of me staying out all night drinking and missing work. BTW, many bars in N.O. never close.

In contrast, to consider the "drink only at home" moderation theory ... no matter what alcohol beverage I'd buy it would be likely I would consume the entire bottle. I'm not suggesting that this qualifies as moderate drinking, but drinking a bottle of wine (5 or 6 glasses) over the course of an evening would be significantly less detrimental than the bar scenario I mentioned above.

Some would say ... well then you'd may go to the store and purchase more wine, but that's not been the case to date.

[xge910]

>Pboy;wrote:

>Thanks for your reply, Belinda

your welcome

>My typical over indulgence usually goes like this.

>I go to one of a few neighborhood bars with the intent of having a few
>cocktails after work. I typically get involved in conversation with someone
>I know. A few cocktails turn into more plus shots often resulting in more
>frequency of me staying out all night drinking and missing work.

ergo my advice, look into your patterns, habits and behaviors.
Also perhaps an alarm clock? or setting the alarm on your cell
phone clock? I too enjoy going to clubs and bars, however on
what I call "school night" i make a point to wrap up things early
on weekend nights this would not be such an issue. one thing
that keeps my drinking "in check" while at the bars and clubs,
is dancing, a drink or 2 gets me moving to the music, more than
that i am just lame on the dance floor.

>BTW, many bars in N.O. never close.

also true in Nevada, and in my other "city" Honolulu last
call is 4am.

>In contrast, to consider the "drink only at home" moderation theory ... no
>matter what alcohol beverage I'd buy it would be likely I would consume
>the entire bottle. I'm not suggesting that this qualifies as moderat
> drinking, but drinking a bottle of wine (5 or 6 glasses) over the course
>of an evening would be significantly less detrimental than the bar
>scenario I mentioned above.

drinking at home alone WAS a bit of my problem

>Some would say ... well then you'd may go to the store and purchase more
>wine, but that's not been the case to date.

[Pboy]

Strike 1

My plan didn't work out so well tonight

[Dee74]

Took a lot of guts to give us that update tho pboy - thanks.
What's next?

D

[TheSunAlsoRises]

Thanks for your honesty Pboy. It was obvious that you really wanted your plan to work, and don't want to give up drinking (no offense intended) To come back and keep it real with everyone takes courage. Whats your next move? Are you working on a three strike system or what? lol

ow edit: Many of us have found much more fulfilling relationships outside of the bar circuits. Its intimidating but I would try to not let that throw you...

[firestorm090]

Pboy.

Welcome to SR.

So your plan didn't work the first try, no big deal.

Over thirty years, I've tried every possible way I could conceive of to drink like a gentleman, but to no avail.

Years ago, I worked for a liquor store and while there educated myself on many of the varieties of spirits available and sampled as many as my pocketbook would allow. I didn't know at that time that alcohol was a huge problem for me, I played the game for many more years. The progression exists in my life, my consumption, which I've tried to moderate, became so unpredictable that I now do not know what will happen after the first drink, regardless of whether I leave my ATM, cc cards at home, for I've gone to get them, I've left cash at home, only to retrieve it and go back to the bar, and I've ran tabs at bars, then had to go back and pay the tabs, and while there, got drunk again, and just ran another tab, so I wouldn't drink and drive to get money to pay for my drinks. I respect your attempt to moderate and wish I could do so myself, but I can not. It took me thirty years to admit this, and even though I admit it, I still can not stop drinking by myself. Others may be able to do so, but not me. You see, after all my experiments, after all my "drink-like-a-man" attempts, I've come to know that I'm just a drunk, with no real social skills, only a couple of real friends, (who like me better sober) and I have a ton of self-pity because I can't drink like others, I can't go to a Super Bowl party without getting drunk, I can't ask a girl for a date if I'm not at least a little intoxicated, I don't work any more because of heart damage due to alcohol and drugs, so I know the deal, as do countless others here. Alcohol became my courage, my strength-in-a-bottle so to speak and I have tried every possible way to hold on to my strength, because without it, I'm an awkward person, without booze in me, I drift to an fro, I cannot balance life, and I can't do it with alcohol either, so I'm lost. I hope this does not become your fate. Sure, there's SR to return to, AA meetings available, but the real loss is of ourselves, and our ability to manage our own lives when alcohol really takes control. We can minimize our consumption, but even a little alcohol daily means we are bound to alcohol. In my experience, going 100 days without a drink doesn't mean I can take it or leave it, it only means I fooled myself for 100 days and alcohol will wait... it will wait till the time is right, then it will exact its toll. You see, alcoholism is an addiction, and sooner or later, without help, it will overcome our attempts to keep it manageable, it will consume us as we consume it. It will destroy us. It has destroyed me, so I offer my experience as proof that the game you are playing is wrought with minefields that will literally blow you life apart. BE very careful.

[Pboy]

Thanks all,

I'm not sure what's next.

I've never been to an AA meeting, but I just don't think I'd be comfortable.

My place of employment has a EAP, so I may give that a try when I return to work tomorrow.

[tyler]

Very few people are "comfortable" at an AA meeting the first time you walk through the door. You shouldn't let that top you from trying a few though. I'm guessing you're not so "comfortable" right now. Nobody is going to hurt you, be mean to you, etc at a meeting, that much I can promise. You've got nothing to lose, and possibly a lot to gain, so suck it up and at least give it a shot. It's not personally not my cup of tea, but I've been to hundereds of them over the years and everyone has always been kind, caring and compationate. Don't discount it until you at least give it a shot is my advice. Take care.

[TheSunAlsoRises]

Originally Posted by tyler

Very few people are "comfortable" at an AA meeting the first time you walk through the door.

Err... I would say NO ONE is comfortable going to an AA meeting for the first time, I almost had a freaking anxiety attack walking through the door. Its not for everyone, yeah maybe talk to your EAP. Either way good to see you starting to take some action...

[caleb76]

I fought and struggled to control my drinking for years. It is way easier, so far, to completely abstain from alcohol than to pick and choose what, when and where I am going to drink.

This is part of the reason AA is so successful!

Best of luck to you.
Try AA, it works if you work it.

[firestorm090]

Pboy,

I'm glad you're still here and still posting. I've discovered that the people you meet, either online or in person while trying to find your own path of recovery are varied and some are a pain in the ass. I've lost more respect for people that I've met in recovery than I've gained. That's ok. it has not changed my desire to seek a better way of living the one and only life I know I have to live.

I've fought recovery with every thing I've got. I refuse to listen, I think I am different, I think I can outsmart my alcoholism, but the truth is the truth. As I've heard in the circles of recoveries, alcohol is no respecter of persons, it will kill you the same as it will kill me. Nothing personal, it is what it is. That's where our personal problem lies, we think we can beat alcohol, which is really a chemical concoction that alters the way we think. It is a drug, the same as other drugs, which means it changes the way we think once we choose to consume it. We can try to control it till hell freezes over, but hell will still be there long after we are gone. That's why I'm responding to you personally tonight. I've been where you are and I know the outcome of unchecked alcoholism, it is not a pretty sight. It is hell. You can click off your computer, but what I'm telling you is real, you can't click it off. I am you and I don't care how much you wish to think otherwise, the truth is I've tried every avenue available to not be a drunk.....and I failed. I see myself in so many of your words, so many of your hopes, so many of your dreams, but I've not been able to accomplish what you seek , nor do I strongly suspect will you.

Please, from the bottom of my heart, with all the sincerity a person can possibly muster for another human being, please don't end up like me. Hell is a nice word in comparison to where I've been and it's all in my attempts to overcome alcohol. It does not work for drunks like me and maybe for you too.

By the way, I still have more money than I need, I still have a nice home, I still have alot of material possessions, but its my soul that I now look for. That's the biggest loss.

[caleb76]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I did get drunk and sleep in my car but that's not a weekly or even monthly occurrence.

I've participated in binge drinking for approx. 3 decades especially on weekends, so forgive me for my hesitance to make a monumental life change without considering options.

I'm VERY confident I can stop drinking as I've already demonstrated it.
My biggest reasons for wanting to quit/curtail drinking are prioritized in this order:

1) concern about continued declining job performance

2) don't want to make a poor judgment and decide to drive (DUI)

3) spend every discretionary penny on drinking ... again I have what I refer to as the "Donald Trump" complex and feel the need to buy everyone drinks when I drink

4) the drama that goes into the bar environment, e.g. fights, etc ...

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I know many here have been through what I'm struggling with, but I'd rather be celebrating with friends/acquaintances on Super Bowl Sunday than alone in my apartment.

I plan on being around people and having a great time for this Superbowl! I will also do it with people that don't need to drink. Most people don't drink to have social times. There are tons of people to hang out with if you want to remain sober.

[verity29]

Never worked for me. Same equation every time 1 drink = 1 drunk. Once I finally stopped struggling it was a massive relief but I do understand why you're trying to do what you are.
Quitting alcohol can be tremendously hard at times but I found the frustration and failure of trying to moderate doubly so...

[Pboy]

To be totally honest I still haven't relinquished the fantasy of being able to manage my drinking better. I haven't touched a drop since my last "goof up", and luckily I'm apparently not in trouble at work.

I'm not sure if I'm an alcoholic.

Since my college days (I'm nearly 50 now) I typically binged on the weekend but never drank every day.

In the last couple of years since losing my father my weekend binges also started spilling (no pun intended) into a couple of weekdays too ... resulting in missing more days at work, hence my greatest concern.

I know beer, wine, or spirits can do an equal amount of damage, but if I chose not to abstain doesn't anyone agree that bringing a single bottle of wine home would likely be much less detrimental than hanging out with friends drinking hard alcohol and doing shots in a bar environment?

[Gypsy Feet]

Hard to say. Maybe after the one you want more, jump behind the wheel to go score. Only you can know what is detrimental to you.

One thing I do know is for many of us, the longer we continued drinking, the worse our problem got.

[littlefish]

Well no one here can tell you if you're an alcoholic or not. At the risk of repeating someone else who may have already mentioned this on this thread, you can take online tests to determine if you are in the category of alcoholic.

There is a difference IMHO between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic. A heavy drinker can take a drink or five and get a happy, social, relaxed feeling.

On the other hand, between that first and fifth drink, an alcoholic will experience the magical feeling that their emotional pain, psychological or life issues have vanished. For most of us, that empty hole in our soul is filled, and, at last we feel "okay". This incredible transformation doesn't happen to normies. They have a couple of drinks, feel a little giggly and relaxed, but they don't feel like they have been repaired.

As many have said here: it is not how much you drink, but what happens to you when you drink.