My moderation plan ...

[TheSunAlsoRises]

Suki has a real point there...

[smacked]

I have an extremely active social life, I am very busy having lots of fun most of the time.. and a thought of drinking hasn't popped into my mind for a very long time.

I do remember when I was drinking, how small my world was too. I can't believe I lived that way for so long, fooled into thinking that I was actually having a good time, and that my drinking buddies were actually my friends. Makes me laugh now that I'm not being that foolish anymore.

I also obsessed about my 'ability' to drink just like you are now. Consumed a lot of my time. I'm glad it doesn't any more.. such a waste of my energy. I tried the 'only wine' and 'only beer' thing. When I would drink only wine, I would chug it, it went down faster and because I hated it, it still got me drunk without tasting most of it. Caused me worse blackouts and hangovers than I ever ever had from any other form of alcohol. Beer, well I thought I'd be too full too. Somehow I was able to fit enough to keep getting drunk, or at least drunk enough to think 'eh.. **** it.. lets do a shot'. No thanks!

Like Carol posted.. moderate drinking for men = 2 drinks per day. To me that would be absolutely pointless, because my point was to get intoxicated.

There is also a moderation management program, Google it. Course it's recommended that you be sober for 30 days to start with, and stick to MODERATE drinking amounts. Folks over there might have some advice for you as well.

Good luck with that, we'll be here when you're done

[Ago]

You had mentioned in your other thread how you slept in your car, how part of your problem is being single and bored, and I would infer lonely from what you said about the pub being your social life, think about it for a second, the only woman that is going to find you attractive right now will also sleep in cars, is that what you want?

To meet interesting people I go to interesting places, to meet drunk people I go to bars

except i don't much like hanging out with drunk people any more, I used to think people who didn't drink were boring because they didn't seem to have much to say, I know now that there isn't much to say to drunk people, it wasn't them that was boring, it was me.

So like has been said, keep doing what you are doing, and when you are done doing that and are open to new ideas, look me up. I know how to not drink, get laid, and have fun, and don't sleep in my car.

[Pboy]

I did get drunk and sleep in my car but that's not a weekly or even monthly occurrence.

I've participated in binge drinking for approx. 3 decades especially on weekends, so forgive me for my hesitance to make a monumental life change without considering options.

I'm VERY confident I can stop drinking as I've already demonstrated it.
My biggest reasons for wanting to quit/curtail drinking are prioritized in this order:

1) concern about continued declining job performance

2) don't want to make a poor judgment and decide to drive (DUI)

3) spend every discretionary penny on drinking ... again I have what I refer to as the "Donald Trump" complex and feel the need to buy everyone drinks when I drink

4) the drama that goes into the bar environment, e.g. fights, etc ...

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I know many here have been through what I'm struggling with, but I'd rather be celebrating with friends/acquaintances on Super Bowl Sunday than alone in my apartment.

[Ago]

Can you quit drinking and stay stopped?

Can you do so and have fun?

PS by the way, I was in NO for the Super Bowl when the Packers played the Patriots, had great seats 10 rows up from the field on the 35 yard line, had a room at the Hyatt but somehow ended up sleeping under the car the night before the game, i tried to break the rental car windows with a paving stone...no luck alas

didn't remember about the room at the Hyatt until the next morning, I had lost my shoes, my money was in the car so had traded my Fire dept badge for drinks, when I slunk into the bar at the Hyatt looking very much like a homeless guy I got a standing ovation

So I get it

[Ago]

Can you relate at all to the following passage?

Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self- deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about- face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums we could increase the list ad infinitum.

BB 1st ed

It looks suspiciously like

I understand in theory 1 beer = 1 glass of wine = 1 shot of hard alcohol, but not being a particular fan of wine or having a demonstrated history of abusing beer (I get filled up to easily) I propose I limit my alcohol consumption to these 2 options.

What do you think of this ingenious plan?

I'm an accomplished drinker, but there's no way I could approach a 12 pack of beer ... I'd be too full. In the last 30+ years of drinking I don't believe I've ever done that.

Likewise with wine, the tannins would tear my stomach up.

I maybe wrong I just can't imagine myself getting trashed on either at this point. That's not to say down the road these beverages couldn't become equally as problematic as hard alcohol, but not at this moment in time.

We'll see ... if it doesn't workout and my alcohol consumption is still a problem, I'll quit for good.

The trick will be not to switch off once I get that full feeling from beer. I don't think it would be possible to mix a significant amount of other alcohol with wine without a distinct possibility of hurling.

btw, if the "moderation plan" doesn't work ... I will quit completely.

It was hell reading about me in a book that was written before I was born, it was like somebody had been following me around

I will hold you to that, I will give you thirty days, tops, truth is I give you 3 nights of drinking before it all goes out the window

Will you come see us if you are unable to hold to your "ingenious plan"?

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by Ago

Can you relate at all to the following passage?



BB 1st ed

It looks suspiciously like







It was hell reading about me in a book that was written before I was born, it was like somebody had been following me around

I will hold you to that, I will give you thirty days, tops, truth is I give you 3 nights of drinking before it all goes out the window

Will you come see us if you are unable to hold to your "ingenious plan"?

Unfortunately, I don't have the specifics of the "ingenious plan" quite worked out yet.

I do believe some of the contingencies you listed above are advantageous to my current M.O. though.

For example, "drinking only at home" (which is inconsistent with my argument to drink for social reasons).

But to illustrate the difference, suppose I buy a bottle of wine and stay at home ... more than likely I'd finish the entire bottle off which by any definition exceeds drinking in moderation.

However, in my case, drinking the entire $20 bottle (5-6 glasses) is no way as detrimental as going to the bar and hitting the ATM several times and spending hundreds of $$$ and possibly making the unwise decision of trying to drive myself home.

One could argue that after I finish the bottle of wine at home perhaps I would go out to get another bottle. Guess that's possible, but at this stage of my disease it's highly improbable.

[Mark75]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I'd rather be celebrating with friends/acquaintances on Super Bowl Sunday than alone in my apartment.

Me too, I plan to enjoy Super Bowl Sunday, not alone... maybe at home, maybe not... I'll be especially happy if the NY Giants get in (I know, the Saints... yea,yea...), but Minnesota looks good too...

Oh yea, It has become almost irrelevant... but I'll be drinking Sprite Zero with nachos, with habeniero sauce.... and that's just fine...

Also... What Ago said...

You are always WELCOME here, keep coming back.

Mark

[Nevertheless]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I did get drunk and sleep in my car but that's not a weekly or even monthly occurrence.

I've participated in binge drinking for approx. 3 decades especially on weekends, so forgive me for my hesitance to make a monumental life change without considering options.

I'm VERY confident I can stop drinking as I've already demonstrated it.
My biggest reasons for wanting to quit/curtail drinking are prioritized in this order:

1) concern about continued declining job performance

2) don't want to make a poor judgment and decide to drive (DUI)

3) spend every discretionary penny on drinking ... again I have what I refer to as the "Donald Trump" complex and feel the need to buy everyone drinks when I drink

4) the drama that goes into the bar environment, e.g. fights, etc ...

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I know many here have been through what I'm struggling with, but I'd rather be celebrating with friends/acquaintances on Super Bowl Sunday than alone in my apartment.

I really believe you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. There are lots of people that watch the superbowl sober.( of course I have only done it once). But my point is this isn't a vehicle to socialize, its a vehicle to drink. There are plenty of people that watch football in my AA group. And though I havn't asked, I'm sure they get together and watch it somewhere. I am kicking around the idea of going to a casino here after while. Probably 70 % of the people will be drinking, but I will not. I'm really starting to enjoy watching people drink. Thinking (man I'm glad that isn't me anymore).
I think you might be like me in one respect. (I thought alcohol gave me courage to socialize). I believe that is a lot of why I drank. I think I am a boring person when I'm sober. But the fact is I was a boring person drunk also.
Fred

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by Nevertheless

I really believe you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. There are lots of people that watch the superbowl sober.( of course I have only done it once). But my point is this isn't a vehicle to socialize, its a vehicle to drink. There are plenty of people that watch football in my AA group. And though I havn't asked, I'm sure they get together and watch it somewhere. I am kicking around the idea of going to a casino here after while. Probably 70 % of the people will be drinking, but I will not. I'm really starting to enjoy watching people drink. Thinking (man I'm glad that isn't me anymore).
I think you might be like me in one respect. (I thought alcohol gave me courage to socialize). I believe that is a lot of why I drank. I think I am a boring person when I'm sober. But the fact is I was a boring person drunk also.
Fred

I just used the Super Bowl as an example. I know there is an endless number of other reasons a drinker can think of (e.g. days that end in "y").

A lack of social skills and anxiety are also my nemeses, but I guess that's topics for another forum.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I just used the Super Bowl as an example. I know there is an endless number of other reasons a drinker can think of (e.g. days that end in "y").

A lack of social skills and anxiety are also my nemeses, but I guess that's topics for another forum.

absolutely not, those also fall under untreated alcoholism

if you had to drink to be around others, you never learned to be around others, so learning how to do that sober is part of recovery, if you use alcohol to deal with your anxiety you never learned how to successfully manage your emotions/anxiety so learning how to do that is part of recovery, if you drink before you ask a girl out, you never learned how to ask a girl out and so on

It's all part and parcel of learning how to not drink, anyone can put the plug in the jug not everyone can leave it there for exactly those reasons.

not drinking doesn't have a whole lot to with actual sobriety but it's a necessary prerequisite

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by Ago

absolutely not, those also fall under untreated alcoholism

if you had to drink to be around others, you never learned to be around others, so learning how to do that sober is part of recovery, if you use alcohol to deal with your anxiety you never learned how to successfully manage your emotions/anxiety so learning how to do that is part of recovery, if you drink before you ask a girl out, you never learned how to ask a girl out and so on

It's all part and parcel of learning how to not drink, anyone can put the plug in the jug not everyone can leave it there for exactly those reasons.

not drinking doesn't have a whole lot to with actual sobriety but it's a necessary prerequisite

Thanks you and everyone else for your replies.

I know it seems I'm in denial or being argumentative, but I'm truly thankful I found this site.

I realize I have to make a change, but the thought of NEVER drinking again seems like an awful long time.

[sfgirl]

I've had your plan, been in your shoes, it takes a lot of energy to play the moderation game. I tried it for years. I really thought I could get it.

You might want to think about why the thought of giving up alcohol forever seems like such a daunting and overwhelming task. If it wasn't such a key substance in your life shouldn't you just be able to let it go especially since it isn't leading you anywhere good?

I cried when I finally realized I had to let it go. It is tough. I wonder if there is anything to speed up your process. For me, I doubt there was anything anyone could have said or done which is unfortunate because sometimes I think of those as years wasted. Good luck.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by Pboy

Thanks you and everyone else for your replies.

I know it seems I'm in denial or being argumentative, but I'm truly thankful I found this site.

I realize I have to make a change, but the thought of NEVER drinking again seems like an awful long time.

naw man, we're glad you're here, we're ALL like FOOOOOOK YOOOOUUUUUUU when the day finally comes

defiance is the outstanding characteristic of alcoholism, if you didn't have it I'd find you uninteresting and wander away

[Pboy]

Originally Posted by sfgirl

You might want to think about why the thought of giving up alcohol forever seems like such a daunting and overwhelming task. If it wasn't such a key substance in your life shouldn't you just be able to let it go especially since it isn't leading you anywhere good?

Did I imply it wasn't a "key substance" in my life?

It's been the foundation of most social aspects of my life for nearly 3 decades.

I've been fortunate in the sense I've never got arrested, lost a job, lost a relationship, or any other drastic consequence from my experiences with alcohol. Until recently it was just a matter of dealing with hangovers and a propensity to keep my checking balance at a minimum.

My most recent history has resulted in poor job attendance and taking stupid chances. I know I can't conduct business as usual with alcohol, but I haven't come to the decision it's all are none.

The consensus here is I won't be successful in implementing a "moderation plan", but I really haven't tried.

For example, what if I decided to drink on non-work day nights only, leave my house with a predetermined amount of money and leave my debit and CC's home, take taxis, etc ...

It still may not fit the "moderation" definition, but it would be a colossal improvement of what I've being doing as of late.

If it sounds like I confused about what the future has in store for me it's because I am.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by Pboy

I realize I have to make a change, but the thought of NEVER drinking again seems like an awful long time.

I remember.

I still struggle with this...but as more time goes by this is less of an issue. I'm still alone, but I was a bit of a loner when I drank. I don't plan on staying lonely forever...I'm working on my self-esteem. I almost feel like I have a blank slate. These things take time.

My idea of moderation was to leave the last town I was living in (by myself) and move back home to live with my parents. I was sure that I wouldn't drink like I did when I went home. Naw...I just hid the bottles where I could.

Welcome to SR, Pboy.

[ElegantlyWasted]

Good luck; it would not work for me. Keep us updated on your Nobel experiment!!

[laurie6781]

(((((PBoy)))))

I read your original post, all the responses and your responses to the responses so far.

All I can say is:

Been there, done that and then some, Got the T-Shirt and ............. IT DIDN'T WORK.

Please let us know how it works for you, and if it doesn't, well ......................... pull up your keyboard and join us in recovery, we'll be here and we have a chair for you.

Love and hugs,

[allport]

Sorry but I am with everyone else it won't work.

It may work physically for a little while (hey I drank last night and didn't get wasted) but it won't take away that feeling (you know which one I mean).

You sound determined to try it so I can only wish you luck.

And also I can't tell you that once you are sober you will be able to go out there and enjoy a great sober social life because it hasn't happened like that for me.

I am still alone and lonely, joining clubs and the like seems as alien to me as climbing mountains.

But (and this is important) I can now see a time when it won't be so frightening and in the meantime I can keep myself amused and busy.

Being bored and lonely is not the worst thing that can happen to you.

[stone]

Pboy, whether somone is quoting the book Alcoholics Anonymous or not, everything you say sounds like classic alcoholism to me...I know because I think like that too.

I am not about to call you an alkie, only you can do that for real. But when a person has to think about swapping drinks, controlling intake in some way, they surely have a problem? When they come to a recovery site and ask questions they have an idea something is wrong.

You might be able to control it enough to enjoy it, you might not. That is the dilemma of all who think they have a problem, I guess some find control and those who don't have to give up and just abstain.


There is much about AA that annoys me (and I am a member!) but...

"Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self- deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about- face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!"

..that quote is powerful in it's insight.

[barb dwyer]

amazing how even with the evidential personal experience right in front of people ...

CarolD posted one time:
Everyone builds their castles in the air...
but only an alcoholic will try to move in!

good luck to ya!

[crzylilmndfreak]

i remember when i first started going to AA i thought wow, i am not really as bad off as THESE people...now, 5 yrs later, and alot of drinking/quitting/drinking, i sit in my AA meetings and think wow, i am probably WORSE off than most of these people!!!
It was down to the alcohol or my family at the final end, and i love my kids and husband too much, and would not want to go on without them...so at first it felt rather "forced" for me to quit, but looking back at all the absolute horrible things i have done, at the hand of the drink, even if something happend and God forbid, i lose my family somehow, i'de like to think i would not go back to the alcohol, i would like to say i am 100% sure i would not, because i do not ever want to be in any of those situations ever again, and I ,at only 18 mo. sober, will and probably will allways take it "one day at a time" it is not easy, just last night i had a dream that i was drinking a beer...not just any beer, in my dream it was some foreign style beer that was the absolute best tasting i have ever had,...and i woke up thinking s*** !! i have to start all over again! it was very real, im sure some here can relate, but yea, it sucks to not be able to drink like a "normal" person, and i wish there were ways of getting around those incidences, ie. coming home bloody, not knowing apparently just done some unspeakable acts, and fallen down on my face,etc...you get the picture,...but i cant,.. no matter how many ways i have tried to stop, and ive tried many, can i drink just one or two drinks, no way...but good luck to you, im sure you will learn more and more as time goes by

[tyler]

Pboy, you gotta do what is right for you. Maybe moderation will work, perhaps not. You seem pretty set on it, so give it a shot. Just make sure you are willing to deal with whatever consequences (if any) may arise if it doesn't work. We'll be here for you either way. Take care.

[tomvlll]

I can relate to the effort in trying moderation plans.
There isn't a one I didn't try.
I really had a deathly fear of giving up drinking altogether.
No drinking at Christmas parties? Summer picnics? Super Bowl? Unh uh, no way no how.

What I CAN"T relate to is having any success at moderation.

So I gave up, went to AA, and voila, all that fear of not being able to drink just disappeared.

[2ndGen]

There is one advantage of going with light drinks - it is harder to overdose/blackout. Other than that it's the same s**t. 3 bottles of 13.5% wine is same as 750ml vodka. Give it a shot, and count your shots.

Peak of BAC is half hour after consumption, and then it gradually goes down to zero during next hour. Count number of beers, multiply by 1.5 and this is time that it'll take to sober up counting from mid point of drink session. Moderation means staying under your limit, which is easier said than done.