New Method....

[EvilBunny]

Originally Posted by Freedom1990

So I take it you personally worked through the steps, or at least through step 5 and this was your own experience?

Yeah, when I tried AA I was all in. I did everything that they suggested. I don't really buy the "Rarely have we seen a person fail..." thing. I saw plenty of people fail, and all I heard was that they must not have really tried, but there was no evidence that the failures (myself included) weren't giving it our best.

[NEOMARXIST]

I can relate to what your saying Debs, I attended a good few AA meetings and whils't I found much of it very useful I found it off-putting how people would be constantly nagging about getting a sponsor/steps etcetc.

I use AA to suit myself and what I have found works with me, I do not wish to be a slave to a program/sponsor how I was to alcohol and I do not wish to feel pressure/unease at not doing things how certain characters feel they must be done. As long as I ain't drinking or getting resentful about not drinking then I'm doing just fine.

So I use AA meetings as a place to go when I feel I need to be mixing with a group of recovering alkies and when I may need to be brought back down to earth in the way that hearing some of the hard-core shares can do so well, I learned a lot from AA meetings and picked up lots of valuable experiences, but I choose not to attend religiously...

[chrisinaustin]

It wasn't easy when I asked my sponsor to be my... sponsor. I'm naturally an introvert. I didn't realize this until a few weeks of sobriety. I had to steel myself to ask him, and that was after a few I chickened out on. I'm glad I did, it worked out fantastically. I've never felt pressured; the 5th step was a relief in ways I couldn't have imagined.

Also remember that as a sponsee you're helping your sponsor. It's really a two-way partnership. After a certain point you're getting more out of the program by helping others and passing on what you've learned. By seeing someone else get better like you did.

[preta]

Meetings felt good, so I went. And I went, and I went and...

I was scared to death
to talk to anyone, so I never got a sponsor.
A year and a half went by and I was still sick and miserable, but sober.
Then I used. Like a robot. I didnt have any choice in the matter, I could watch myself doing it, and I knew what was going to happen, but I did it anyway. Ended up hospitalized within a week. Almost dead...
I came back and got honest, and I asked a guy who I'd known from meetings to be my sponsor. We were able to form a bond of trust. I would never spill some of my secrets to a 'stranger'. Thats ridiculous. My sponsor is the only one on earth who knows some of these things next to myself. I feel confident he wont spill the beans. I worked the steps and i've never been happier or more sane. Life still sucks sometimes, but thats the nature of things.


So if AA is the route you choose, I would advise if you dont get a sponsor sooner than later, that you get a home group, and do some service work for that group. Make friends. Make it known that you dont have a sponsor and your kinda lookin around. Remember that these people need to sponsor others as part of their program. Thats how it works.
I wish you the best in your recovery!

[CarolD]

preta ...good to see you here in our SR Alcoholism Forum

Thanks for sharing part of your story with us

Forward we go..side by side

[CarolD]

chrisinaustin.....
Welcome back to SR

Good to see you again...

[Charmie]

good post preta.

[keithj]

Originally Posted by NEOMARXIST

I found it off-putting how people would be constantly nagging about getting a sponsor/steps etcetc.

That's what AA is. Working the steps that lead to a spiritual awakening. It may be off-putting to you, but that's what the program is. I'm glad that you find certain elements useful to you, and that you are not drinking.

I do find it amusing, however, that you are put off by exactly what AA is. You don't have to like it, you don't have to go, but that's what it is. Always make me laugh a little when people complain about AA preaching XYZ (the program of AA). AA is a fellowship who's only purpose is to preach XYZ. It's like walking into a Catholic church and complaining about all the Jesus and Mary stuff you hear. Or going to a sushi bar and complaining about all the raw fish.

Glad you can make use of something there.

[Charmie]

good post keith,,i found when i stopped disagreeing with what folk were saying,stopped fighting it in other words and completely surrendered my old thoughts and ideas,,stopped trying to still hold on to a corner of the towel and still try and do things just a little "my way" then things got alot better,no dry drunk here,happy,joyous,free and in the midst of a spritual awakening.magic.my way was cr£p anyhow,proved that time and time again.

[NEOMARXIST]

I do not wish to get into a debate about AA, it's nice to know it is there, though I do think it is somewhat "cliquey" and the statement of "the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking" is somewhat forgotten by some of the charcters who attend and it turns into somewhat of a contest between who's done the steps the most rigourously etcetc.

At the end of the day if the way that someone is doing it is working and they are happy just attending meetings then pressure should not be applied to them to get a sponsor/steps etc. All the talk of that turned me back to drinking the first few times I went, so I am somewhat warey of it. Then again I have always been a free-spirit and a little bit rebellious so the thought of tying myself into a program to be judged by someone who I know next to nothing about sets alarm bells ringing to me.

Like I say it's nice to know that AA is there when/if I need it but the pressure that is placed on newcomers to find sponsors/steps can often be very off-putting.

70 Days Sober today!

[Charmie]

thats great neomarxist.that is your experience and im glad that you seem to be the type of alcoholic that can just go to meetings and stay sober,in other words when you stop drinking your alcoholism goes.however,there is another side to the coin,i am the type of alcoholic that suffered from the spiritual malady.i NEEDED a sponsor and the spiritual awakening as a result of the 12 steps.if i didnt have that then im going nowhere anyhow because step one becomes obsolete,i will drink again.in the area where i am there is plenty of folk that get sober in the rooms and that is fine,however where i am is the polar opposite regarding sponsors and the 12 steps to where you are,they actively encourage folk (as i think is your gist) not to worry about the Big Book,or sponsorship or the steps.again,fine,,,if you are an alcoholic NOT of my type.this advice if i hadnt had experience of AA before and not taken it could have killed me.i may never have got back after my last drink.i too dont want an argument,i dont do that these days.i just think that as adults we should be given all the tools on offer.there is lots of folk that can take what they like and leave the rest,there are folk like me that need everything that they can get their hands on.guidance through the 12 steps to have a spiriual awakening and then life for one.white knuckle sobriety and constant relapses are my idea of h£ll.i dont have that worry today.congrats on your 70 days.

[EvilBunny]

Originally Posted by keithj

I do find it amusing, however, that you are put off by exactly what AA is. You don't have to like it, you don't have to go, but that's what it is. Always make me laugh a little when people complain about AA preaching XYZ (the program of AA). AA is a fellowship who's only purpose is to preach XYZ.

AA's only purpose is to preach the steps?? AA is ostensibly, according to the preamble, primarily a fellowship whose purpose is to help alcoholics. Period. I was told it was a place where alcoholics supported each other and shared experience, strength and hope. When I got something out of a meeting it was when people were sharing and supportive. I got nothing out of folks parsing the Big Book like scripture and blindly reciting trite platitudes (over and over and over again). I know I'm not alone, because I went to quite a few Step Study meetings and noticed that it was nearly impossible to keep people on topic. People who preach the steps make it sound like a formula or a recipe. It doesn't work that way. There are thought processes and emotions which accompany the journey to sobriety that are unique to each recovering addict. Articulating those experiences is far more helpful than discussing nebulous concepts such as character defects ad nauseam.

[bugsworth]

Debs....there are so many opinions on and about aa it boggles the mind. The FACT is that aa and/or sponsors don't get or keep you sober...you do that. If you choose to follow the dictates of the aa "program" getting a sponsor is a very important decision. I have experience in this area as I didn't pick my sponsor she picked me....not an ideal situation. If aa is helping you (the meetings) keep going and pay careful attention to the members that you see often. I can't stress how important it is to get someone who you can identify with. It's not a race and I feel making a smart decision instead of a rushed one would be prudent. During my time in aa I met more than a few people with the title "sponsor" who quite frankly I wouldn't let dog sit much less be someone who I would take religious advise from. A sponsor is suppose to guide you thru the steps which lead you to God, personally if it is a religious remedy you want maybe church might be helpful too. Just be smart about the choices you make in your life. I wish you the very best of luck and remember sobriety is an inside job...you have all the power just tap into it.

[JohnnyZ]

Originally Posted by keithj

Always make me laugh a little when people complain about AA preaching XYZ (the program of AA). AA is a fellowship who's only purpose is to preach XYZ. It's like walking into a Catholic church and complaining about all the Jesus and Mary stuff you hear. Or going to a sushi bar and complaining about all the raw fish.

Honestly, I didn't know anything about AA until I attended my first meeting. I had no idea what "steps" were, or that there was a "big book". I had no idea about sponsorship. I had no idea that there was a money collection (I have no problem donating, just that I was unprepared). I had no idea that we were going to hold hands and chant to end the meeting. All I knew is that it was a meeting of alcoholics (and DUI offenders like me) sharing experiences and helping one another. Didn't know the process. So to me, it was like going into a sushi bar not knowing what sushi is. It was during my first meeting and several thereafter that I realized that "sushi" just wasn't for me...

[Cubile75]

Debs... (remember Debs??) You out there? How you doin'

Mark

[keithj]

Originally Posted by NEOMARXIST

...the statement of "the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking"...

The only requirement for membership is not the only requirement for recovery.

To sum up, I have seen a few people come into the rooms of AA, get support and fellowship, feel just like some on this board feel about the steps and sponsors and such, and stay sober. I have seen thousands more do the exact same thing and return to drinking. It's the passing parade.

Use AA however you want, but the idea of getting upset because it's not what you want it to be is absurd. It is what it is.

Congrats on your 70 days.

[bugsworth]

I think the problem regarding aa not being what one wants is not absurd but rather a bi-product of the misrepresentation of the program. Over and over we hear the only requirement for membership...not religious...take what you want...etc.
I agree with Keith aa is what it is, so maybe hiding it's true nature is not the most honest thing aa members can do.

[JohnnyZ]

Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Honestly, I didn't know anything about AA until I attended my first meeting. I had no idea what "steps" were, or that there was a "big book". I had no idea about sponsorship. I had no idea that there was a money collection (I have no problem donating, just that I was unprepared). I had no idea that we were going to hold hands and chant to end the meeting. All I knew is that it was a meeting of alcoholics (and DUI offenders like me) sharing experiences and helping one another. Didn't know the process. So to me, it was like going into a sushi bar not knowing what sushi is. It was during my first meeting and several thereafter that I realized that "sushi" just wasn't for me...

Debs, I feel bad that my post was about me and not about the reason you started it, I apologize. Most people have made some great suggestions about you sticking with the meetings and using them for what makes you feel good. I agree. Please, keep posting... :-)

[yeahgr8]

Looks like your thread's been hijacked by the AA bashers...yawn...

Hope you doing ok:-)

[NEOMARXIST]

No AA bashing from me whatsoever. As I have expressed on SR many times and to my family and friends, I am extremely gratefull that AA meetings exist and can be attended at any time, when I am in need.

I was merely trying to relate my experience of AA to how I interpreted elements of Debs original post. If one is happy merely attending meetings and does not wish to engage in sponsorship/step work then this should not be forcefully pushed upon them which may result in them consequently feeling like they do not have a right to be at AA meetings and thus consequently return to drinking again. This happened to myself.

I then adapted the program to suit myself and believe step 1 to be the fundamentally crucial step for myself. Obviously by conscientiously striving to work on my flaws/charcter defects then this will also help me to remain gratefully sober. Ultimately the goal must be gratefull sobriety IMO. If this requires steps and sponsorship then that is great but if it only requires attendance of meetings then that is also great.

Don't forget most people don't have a clue about AA when they first attend and they just wish to seek solitude in a room full of people with the same problem, not to be forcefully told that they must religiously do something or they will fail. It is very daunting and I'm sure many don't ever return. Of course many do return.

Obviously it depends on who is chairing the meetings and the individual meetings as to how AA is represented.

Debs remember that the goal must be to not drink, ultimately everyone is only out for themselve's anyway, whether in AA or not, in 12th stepping others then this helps that person to stay sober.

If going to meetings helps you stay sober then I say forget what a few charcters say and do what feels right in your heart. You and your sobriety is the only one who matters.

Peace and Love xx

[bugsworth]

Yeahgr..I also hope Debs is ok and I did share my experience regarding sponsors with her. With all due respect I was in aa 5 times longer than you have been sober. Maybe because you are still so new at sobriety and aa you have not had the time to gauge what might be best for someone in Debs shoes. Your sponsor, by your own admission, would have no problem calling you or any of his sponsees a c**t simply for considering making an amends to yourself. This is the type of person that I warned Deb about. A sponsor like that may be good for you but IMO is on a power trip and displays no amount of spirituality at all.

[smacked]

Debs, are you out there somewhere? Check in when you can.. yet another thread from someone reaching out for help, that gets hijacked and trashed.

Hope you're doing ok.

[joedris]

Debs, There's no set agenda about what you say at a meeting or how long it should take to find a sponsor. Opinions on these matters are like certain human anatomical features - everyone's got one. Remember, in AA it's your program to set up as you see fit. Too many people like to wear their sobriety on their sleeves and, being alcoholics with a certain amount of sobriety behind them, have certain opinions which are, of course, the only right way to do things.

Don't be intimidated by such people. Go to meetings and sit back and listen. If called upon to share, decline. You won't get thrown out. Shop around, too. You may find other meetings that you really feel comfortable at. Women's closed meetings seem to fit the bill in a lot of cases with newcomers. And start hanging out with the winners. You'll be able to pick them out. And give it time. Once you've made a few more friends and feel a little more comfortable, then perhaps you can ask someone to help you out getting started. But please, never feel pressured.

Oh, and that kindly old gent? Stay away. He may be Mr nice guy but he may not be. You'll find out over time. Stick close to the other women for now.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by NEOMARXIST

I do not wish to get into a debate about AA, it's nice to know it is there, though I do think it is somewhat "cliquey" and

...and it turns into somewhat of a contest between who's done the steps the most rigourously etcetc.

70 Days Sober today!

Awesome! Keep it up.

I hear ya about the contest thing. Part or most of that might just be ego.

Here's the deal with me; the only thing I HAVE to do... the thing I commited to... is go to my Monday night meeting and do steps on a yearly basis. Anything after that is icing on the cake. I find myself wanting to go to a few more meetings here and there. I find myself wanting to post in here.

But we do get full of ourselves from time to time. I think that's being human.

Originally Posted by EvilBunny

People who preach the steps make it sound like a formula or a recipe. It doesn't work that way.

Oh boy! I would sure like to comment on this one. But I'd rather do it in the 12 Step subforum or via PM.

Oh well, here goes. A.A. is exactly just that for me. It's a recipe. A set of instructions. You do certain things, you get a certain result. Then we can all talk about it! And for me, this is where this Power comes from. And we do share it and give it away. It's a blast. Big Book studies are pointless because you can't study the Big Book. It's a set of instructions. Does not everybody understand this?

Originally Posted by Cubile75

Debs... (remember Debs??) You out there? How you doin'

Mark

Oh yeah, debs! I actually agree with what Bugs says about sponsors.

[debs]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts...

I'm still fighting my demons.. it's not as bad as it could be by a long shot.. but not best either... I have read all of your posts over and over...

Who knows what the answer is.... but I spose...

This too shall pass.