If there was a cure for alcoholism...

[OneForTheRoad]

how would you recognise it?

What would be the criteria used to define it or examine it?

serious question - and one I've been pondering a bit lately

[tommyk]

The only 'cure' I know of is not drinking.

It took me a while to recognize it though.

We may have the only disease we can treat successfully, right?

[Tazman53]

how would you recognise it?

I could have a half a drink, walk away and not care for another drink or even think about another one.

[OneForTheRoad]

tommy - if you had a peanut allergy, would you accept that "Don't eat peanuts" is a cure?

tax - interesting. Do you have timescale in mind here. e.g. if I can treat alcohol like this (as you describe) for X days/weeks/months/years I would consider myself cured. Or would you considered yourself cured (but possibly succeptible to 'reinfection') once you could do this at all?

[penny74]

Imagine that was possible..
What sorrow and pain could be prevented.

"You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough."
Wiilam Blake.

[OneForTheRoad]

Hi penny - there are many diseases throughout history which have affected large numbers of people, but for which cures have been found. There is no reason to believe that a cure will NOT be found someday for alcoholism. I think it is interesting to ask the question of how we would evaluate the claims though - do you have any thoughts on that?

[yeahgr8]

I think alcoholism encompasses too many problems, it isn't just the drink else there would be far less consequences. I believe that you are set up/set yourself up for addictive behaviour from a very early age, even from birth...therefore it would be a matter of identifying patterns of behaviour and probably physical make up to eliminate alcoholism, drug addicition, murder, rape etcetc. My point is it'll never be just a pill which i think is what you are getting at...

And this would have to be a constant monitoring process throughout everyones lifetime. Kind of like the film the minority report except that they would not just monitor murders but behaviours too...i don't see how that would be possible but who knows, maybe in the future hey?

[penny74]

l agree with Tazman53.
That would be just about right.
Untill a cure is found l will use plain common sense.

"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing."

[OneForTheRoad]

yeahgr8 - I'm not pre-supposing any particular form of 'cure' - it might be as simple as a pill, a pre-natal injection or operation, or as complex as could be imagined.

So - what would we do to test whether or not such a claim was valid - what standard of 'proof' would you look for? You seem to be hinting at a lifetime process of verification (I haven't seen the film you refer to!) - in which case you could only proclaim someone cured when they died! Tough going for the first generation guinea pigs I guess

[smacked]

because i don't agree with the "disease" model of 'alcoholism' a cure makes no sense to me. I know if I drink, and drink how I was, I'll die.

Does a 'cure' mean that people can then go out and get drunk again? lol.. I sure would hope not! Course I have no desire for that anyways.

I don't think about drinking alcohol, I don't want to drink.. I don't wish that I 'could'.. Am I cured?

I was dependent on alcohol as my one and only coping skill in life (to have fun, to relax, to fix my anxiety, to help me sleep, because the sky is blue... ) and since learning other ways to live my life I have no need for it. The liquor had very little to do with my overall issues going on. Maybe my cure was learning more about myself, developing life tools that I can use instead of the alcohol buzz..

Nothing that I remember that is fun or good about alcohol will ever overshadow the fact that I abused it to the point that it almost killed me, and alcohol simply isn't important enough to me to want to be friends with again in any way.

So when folks talk about a 'cure', what does it mean? A cure from the craving? A cure from the obsession? A way to drink "normal"? I've got the first two down, and I'd never ever want the third.

[OneForTheRoad]

thanks smacked - I think the question can still be addressed if you don't subscribe to the disease model. If you view it as a behavioural issue, then there can still be a cure - e.g. how someone might be regarded as cured from shop-lifting.

I'm curious though if you view the problem as entirely behavioural (maybe you don't?) - do you view people who do drink (within accepted healthy guidelines) as having a (possibly latent) problem? If not, what is the difference between them and a person who does have a problem?
I respect entirely your position of never wanting to drink again, you have turned a problem situation into one which is not a problem (job done!) - but the nagging question for me on the theoretical side, is: is it a cure or prevention - cf the peanut allergy question above? If you drank alcohol now (and I know you have no wish to) would you envisage yourself having any difficulty?

[Lo0p]

Originally Posted by smacked

So when folks talk about a 'cure', what does it mean? A cure from the craving? A cure from the obsession? A way to drink "normal"? I've got the first two down, and I'd never ever want the third.

I would think a cure would mean taking a person who is an alcoholic and making them no longer an alcoholic.

I'd say Taz's definition would be an indication of a cure. I'll think about 1-4's question more. It might not be like this for everyone but, in my entire alcoholic life I've never once thought that I wasn't an alcoholic. So for me personally, I would know if I were cured.

[Lo0p]

Originally Posted by Lo0p

I would think a cure would mean taking a person who is an alcoholic and making them no longer an alcoholic.

Where an alcoholic is someone who cannot control the amount of alcohol they consume.

[stone]

If I could drink like a normal person, I would be drunk all the time!

[smacked]

Originally Posted by OneForTheRoad

thanks smacked - I think the question can still be addressed if you don't subscribe to the disease model. If you view it as a behavioural issue, then there can still be a cure - e.g. how someone might be regarded as cured from shop-lifting.

I'm curious though if you view the problem as entirely behavioural (maybe you don't?) - do you view people who do drink (within accepted healthy guidelines) as having a (possibly latent) problem?

Honestly, I don't understand people who drink 'normally'. The standard guidelines for moderate drinking are 1 drink per day for women, 2 drinks per day for men. I spent over half my life associating alcohol with the buzz it gives me and I cannot understand (just being honest here) why anyone would have one or 2 drinks a day. Maybe the taste, but really.. I never REALLY liked the taste of it, some drinks were just a bit more tolerable going down that others.

If not, what is the difference between them and a person who does have a problem?

Maybe they have healthier coping skills, and alcohol is simply a beverage. That didn't work in my world. Maybe they don't like to get buzzed or drunk off of alcohol. My husband has wine with dinner about once a month, usually one glass. If he has more than one he is miserable because he hates the effect of alcohol. My mind says "then why do you drink it", but again, I'm coming from many many years of using and abusing it for entirely different reasons than any 'normal' drinker drinks.

I respect entirely your position of never wanting to drink again, you have turned a problem situation into one which is not a problem (job done!) - but the nagging question for me on the theoretical side, is: is it a cure or prevention - cf the peanut allergy question above? If you drank alcohol now (and I know you have no wish to) would you envisage yourself having any difficulty?

I think I could drink a glass of wine, with no problem. But I am too scared of falling into old habits.. it's a lazy and easy way for me to cope with life. I chose to use it that way, many people dont. I know I would probably then think about having 2 glasses 'next time'. Then I would do that. Then I would make 'next time', tomorrow. Maybe not. I don't care, I'm not in love with alcohol anymore, I wouldn't 'want' to drink it even if I could stop at 1 and never think about it again. I don't think I'm "cured", but I don't think there's anything here for me to have been cured of. My behavior created dependency on alcohol. By modifying my behavior and challenging the reasons that I engaged it in the first place, I'm no longer dependent. A logical course to follow would be not to imbibe in what I was dependent on that created such unhealthy behaviors. I personally feel that alcohol was simply the tool I used.. I think I could have developed a dependency on a whole host of different things had I 'used' them.. food, sex, whatever.

[OneForTheRoad]

thanks for the honest answers smacked.

There are obviously cultural issues here too - e.g. in mediterranean countries it is very common to have wine with an evening meal - someone doing this (assuming they stopped at a glass or two!!) every day wouldn't be regarded as any way unsual or having any sort of problem. Maybe its habit (after all many people do the same with coffee or orange juice for breakfast) or maybe they enjoy the sensation, or the taste. In any cases there are many shades of 'normal' - e.g. people who might only drink with a weekend meal, people who might meet friends once a week and share a few beers etc

I find your last paragraph intriguing - you talk about your behaviour creating a dependency - is that not a disease/condition? Like poor diet bringing on diabetes or cardiac issues? You say "I personally feel that alcohol was simply the tool I used.. I think I could have developed a dependency on a whole host of different things had I 'used' them" - is that not the same as someone saying they have a predisposition to addiction?

[smacked]

Originally Posted by OneForTheRoad

thanks for the honest answers smacked.

There are obviously cultural issues here too - e.g. in mediterranean countries it is very common to have wine with an evening meal - someone doing this (assuming they stopped at a glass or two!!) every day wouldn't be regarded as any way unsual or having any sort of problem. Maybe its habit (after all many people do the same with coffee or orange juice for breakfast) or maybe they enjoy the sensation, or the taste. In any cases there are many shades of 'normal' - e.g. people who might only drink with a weekend meal, people who might meet friends once a week and share a few beers etc

I find your last paragraph intriguing - you talk about your behaviour creating a dependency - is that not a disease/condition? Like poor diet bringing on diabetes or cardiac issues? You say "I personally feel that alcohol was simply the tool I used.. I think I could have developed a dependency on a whole host of different things had I 'used' them" - is that not the same as someone saying they have a predisposition to addiction?

I'm sure we could break out the dictionary as to what is considered a 'disease' and even more broad, a 'condition', I'm not here to dissect it. If I knew the answers to your questions, I'd likely be a very wealthy woman I have no idea if I was predisposed to addiction, but I know I've had a lot of addiction 'issues', so I tend to do the hard work on figuring out WHY instead of figuring out how I can get around it.

[OneForTheRoad]

so I tend to do the hard work on figuring out WHY instead of figuring out how I can get around it

I think we're both trying to do that smacked

[jamdls]

I don't buy into alcoholism being a disease either, it's an addiction or an allergy. With many allergies there are medications you can take to alleviate the symptons and apparently there are medications you can take to make alcohol less desirable to you as well. I've often looked at my drinking problem the same as if I had a peanut allergy or shellfish allergy, I wouldn't eat peanuts or shellfish if I was allergic and I don't drink alcohol because I have an allergy to it.

[debs]

Originally Posted by smacked

I don't think about drinking alcohol, I don't want to drink.. I don't wish that I 'could'..

Be very grateful for that...

I only wish I could say the same.

[McGowdog]

If there was a "cure" for alcoholism, I believe that would entail me being able to control and enjoy my drinking. It would be like me going to the edge of blackout... and stopping right there or maintaining that buzz.

It would not entail me being in a recovered state or a state of being a teetotaler... just not drinking.

I'm not so sure I'd want to be a "normal" drinker either. They can take it or leave it alone. Booze was always very special for me. It did way more for me than say... drinking water, ginger ale, or eating peanuts. It got me high and made me feel good. My brain will never forget that about booze.

So to me, a "cure" would entail restoring me or bringing me to a state where booze had no hold of me mentally or physically; no obsession and no craving.

I would also like to win the Powerball, but I don't spend too much time engaging in fantasy.

[Boleo]

Even if there was a cure my alcoholic brain would want to see just how "cured" I could get.

[NewBeginning010]

Originally Posted by Boleo

Even if there was a cure my alcoholic brain would want to see just how "cured" I could get.

Yep, 10-4 on that Boleo

[Greener]

To me a cure would be my addiction would be gone and I could drink if I wanted to or not choose to do so. As of today I choose not to drink anymore.

For all I know I am cured. I just dont want to find out if i am wrong. If the cure was garanteed I still would choose not to drink because alcohol brings back too many painful memories.

RG

[ronysalles]

Originally Posted by tommyk

The only 'cure' I know of is not drinking.

It took me a while to recognize it though.

We may have the only disease we can treat successfully, right?

not recognizing is the biggest barriers alcoholics face to learn how live life without alcohol.

I think alcohol there will never have cure, even if there is, I think I have to keep off it; it's better, I assume.