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Old 03-01-2009, 09:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The majority of alcoholics recover from alcohlism without AA

The quotes below deal specifically with the statement I have made on numerous occasions that most alcoholics quit without going to AA and its not about AAs effectiveness. Navysteve accuses me of making very false statements and of talking BS but asked me wisely to quote my sources.


http://defeataddictions.org/files/Na...om_Alcohol.pdf However studies have addressed and it has been found that the majority of alcoholics recover without AA (Russel et 2001)

Vaillant also reports that of the abstainers, 37 percent succeeded in abstaining wholly or in part through A.A. Thus even among the abstainers a good majority seemingly had no contact with, had no assistance from A.A.
Stanton Peeles website interpreting George Valliants Natural History of Alcoholism.

"A majority of the people who quit abusing substances do it on their own without treatment," Dr. Dan Nauts, medical director of the Benefis Addiction Treatment Center
Center http://www.gannett.com/go/difference...confounds.html

The truth is that most people who have had problems with alcohol addiction or drug addiction in the past quit on their own.
- admittedly from a site which offers alternative to 12 steps, so take it with a pinch of salt

AA Trustee and Harvard Prof. George Vaillant, MD, 2001: "Sixty per cent do it without AA."
Grapevine: You said about 40 percent of the people who remain abstinent do it through AA. What about the other 60 percent? Could we in AA be more open, more supportive of these?
George Vaillant: Yes. You know, if you're batting 400, it's all right to miss a few. I think the fact that AA knows the answer to an extremely complicated problem is probably all right.
But it doesn't hurt at the level of GSO for AA to have humility and understand that 60 percent do it without AA.


George Valliants study which says the majority of alcoholics become abstainers without AA was done in the US where AA is the most popular!

People should not be made to attend AA through fear they cannot do it through other means.

Ill try to rewording it
A large proportion, it appears the majority of alcoholics, abstain from alcohol without AA.

Also consider that not all people who actually attend AA do the program and not all people do the program with same intensity (for example I have heard people say it took them months or years to do 1 step or 2 steps).

God bless all the people who use God to achieve recovery, I personally don’t. The above post isn’t an attack on the average AA member it’s just saying that there is other means. It is an attack hardcore cult extremists who have overtook my meeting where I attended harmoniously with other people who did the 12 steps for 1 year. Who constantly ram home the 12 steps is the only way.

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Old 03-01-2009, 10:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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gee, maybe I'll be a majority member...
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Of course AA is not the only way...there is no only way.

We have had many discussions about that information
on our SR Forums.

For me...AA recovery is 100% successful.
Hope everyone finds something that makes that true for them.


Here is a list...on a sticky post here in Alcoolism..

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html

We also have a Secular Connections Forum on SR

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...r-connections/

Forward we go....side by side....:ghug
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Interesting research and thanks for posting that.

This is MY EXPERIENCE..

For me recovery is a loaded word...

It means becoming a functional happy and content human being to me.

Not drinking has little to do with recovery to me..

Abstinance is not drinking...i could do that....for a fashion.

But is wasnt till i grasped the steps with as much passion as i grasped a beer that i managed to "Recover"

In fact working the steps for me seldom has anything to do with booze.

Its more to do with what was left of me after booze.

That may be confusing to some but not to me.

I believe i am a recovered alcoholic.....not just because i dont drink.

I believe its cos i work the steps.......

When i finally stopped drinking i was left with a shell of a person unable to cope with life on lifes terms.

I had all the traits of a active alcoholic....but i wasnt drinking.

All of my recovery depends on a adherance to the 12 steps....to the best of my ability.

A contact with god as i understand him.

Continue to pass on what worked for me to other alcoholics...IF THEY WANT TO LISTEN.........

Thats how it is for me guys............id be interested to hear your way.

trucker.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I appreciate this post, and just wanted to say that before this flies off the handle and starts another AA vs everyone else war.

AA is not something that I participate in, and it's not something that works for me, nor will it. I found another way, it's my personal journey, as we each have one.

For those with success in AA, nothing, other programs, whatever.. congrats.

There are as many ways to do this as there are people making an effort to live sober, I think it's good for us to keep in mind the common thread of the dependency on alcohol that we've experienced.

And with that, I'm done Have a wonderful day everyone!
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Just another post in the long list that tries to disallow someone to have an opinion of their own.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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When will you people get it that noone cares whether or not you go to AA? Do whatever the hell you want, it even says in the BB on page 95:

Quote:
If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Interesting research and thanks for posting that.

This is MY EXPERIENCE..

For me recovery is a loaded word...

It means becoming a functional happy and content human being to me.

Not drinking has little to do with recovery to me..

Abstinance is not drinking...i could do that....for a fashion.

But is wasnt till i grasped the steps with as much passion as i grasped a beer that i managed to "Recover"

In fact working the steps for me seldom has anything to do with booze.

Its more to do with what was left of me after booze.

That may be confusing to some but not to me.

I believe i am a recovered alcoholic.....not just because i dont drink.

I believe its cos i work the steps.......

When i finally stopped drinking i was left with a shell of a person unable to cope with life on lifes terms.

I had all the traits of a active alcoholic....but i wasnt drinking.

All of my recovery depends on a adherance to the 12 steps....to the best of my ability.

A contact with god as i understand him.

Continue to pass on what worked for me to other alcoholics...IF THEY WANT TO LISTEN.........

Thats how it is for me guys............id be interested to hear your way.

trucker.
Yes agree there's no point in being sober and unhappy. If you do the steps brings you serenity fantastic.

I just don't see what this has to with what I have said, unless you are insinuating the classic AA comment that I have heard on numerous occasions that people who are sober without AA aren't happy.

This argument is completely unsubstantiated, its the reason AA is often described as cult like.

Personally I have seen people who do the program who are miserable and I know recovered alcoholics out of AA who are very happy.

If you are not trucker, then the above comment doesn't apply to you and I wish you long term sobriety.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't believe anything is missing in my life. I'm happy and have all I need, now. I definitely had too much alcohol, but once I take that out of the equation, things couldn't be better. I'll try to remember to keep rereading this so I don't forget that! Every new day is better than the last! SR helps of course, I'm content and plan to stay that way.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kurtrambis View Post
Yes agree there's no point in being sober and unhappy. If you do the steps brings you serenity fantastic.

I just don't see what this has to with what I have said, unless you are insinuating the classic AA comment that I have heard on numerous occasions that people who are sober without AA aren't happy.

This argument is completely unsubstantiated, its the reason AA is often described as cult like.

Personally I have seen people who do the program who are miserable and I know recovered alcoholics out of AA who are very happy.

If you are not trucker, then the above comment doesn't apply to you and I wish you long term sobriety.

No no not at all my friend......i am a great believer in what ever works for you.

I have an extremely open mind and believe in "what ever works for you"..

I said..interesting post and meant it...

I do NOT believe in forcing my beliefs down others throats.

And are very interested in others take on other programmes or methods.

Your post was..."The majority of alcoholics recover from alcohlism without AA"

And i was expressing what "RECOVER" meant to ME and only me.

Please be clear that i have great respect for anyone that gets sober.

However that is achieved......................trucker
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I disagree with the title of the post. I believe the majority of alcoholics NEVER recover.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I disagree with the title of the post. I believe the majority of alcoholics NEVER recover.
I think he means, of those who recover, most do so without AA.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think dgillz means you are never cured...no?
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I am not trying to make a point about being cured, I am trying to make a point about recovery. The title says "the majprity recover". I think the majority do not recover - regardless of the method - they just die.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think dgillz means that most alcoholics do not recover, that they die in active alcoholism. None of us are ever 'cured', as we'll fall right back into the trap if we drink again. It is more accurate to say that sober alcoholics are in remission.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think he means, of those who recover, most do so without AA.
Yes, I meant to say the majority of alcoholics that do recover do so without AA.
I have a feeling Dgdzilli is in AA and new what I meant to say but I could be wrong.

Admin please can I change the thread title
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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least: amen to that.. i know i'm not cured.. took me about 16 years to finally except that!
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think dgillz' post only referred to the accurate statement that most alcoholics die from it, in one way or another.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I've deleted my post i can't be bothered!
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