The majority of alcoholics recover from alcohlism without AA
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: witness protection program
Posts: 378
The poster may be rare, Dee, but around these parts that attitude is alive and well, both in the AA community and at treatment facilities. The CD counselor I'm seeing to satisfy social services teaches the 12-Step approach as if it is the first and last word on alcoholism. When I told him about the LifeRing meeting I'm trying to organize, he went out of his way to let me know that AA would not be supportive of my efforts and that members might even drop by to give me a bad time. He is a long time AA member himself.
Many claim to have their own way of recovery that is working. I say terrific? But I must ask, what constitutes success in recovery? Is it 30 days, 60 days, 90 days of total abstinence?
I think if you have several years of sobriety then it may be safe to say that your way is working. I think many who have a few months under their belt think that they have recovered. I say that the path ahead gets tricky and hopefully you are prepared to handle it. There is no such thing as recovered. Our recovery is contingent on how diligent we work our program.
I think if you have several years of sobriety then it may be safe to say that your way is working. I think many who have a few months under their belt think that they have recovered. I say that the path ahead gets tricky and hopefully you are prepared to handle it. There is no such thing as recovered. Our recovery is contingent on how diligent we work our program.
I haven't attacked AAs program on this thread!!! I certainly have never attacked anybody who does the program of AA
Why can anybody be offended by the statement
The majority of alcoholics who quit drinking do so without AA.
The majority of alcoholics who quit drinking do so without AA.
There is lots of help out there aswell as AA
I certainly wasn't singling anyone out in particular, Paul. But over the years, I have read many over confident members who did, and it ended badly. I'm willing to bet you have read a few posts that hinted that as well. I just wanted to make it clear that sobriety is a tough road and there is no cure. When we feel the strongest and most secure, we are soon tested. Just trying to make a strong point. None of us have it all sewn up.
The poster may be rare, Dee, but around these parts that attitude is alive and well, both in the AA community and at treatment facilities. The CD counselor I'm seeing to satisfy social services teaches the 12-Step approach as if it is the first and last word on alcoholism. When I told him about the LifeRing meeting I'm trying to organize, he went out of his way to let me know that AA would not be supportive of my efforts and that members might even drop by to give me a bad time. He is a long time AA member himself.
For now, I believe they are leery because they are not that knowledgeable of it. Your counselor is going to relay what worked for him. I really don't find the fact that AA is used more prevalently that surprising. Historically, people can be resistant to new ideas. That doesn't mean new ways are inferior, it just takes time and action. It will catch on when sucessful results can be measured.
I still support you and your efforts in getting your LifeRing group going. I hope you are very successful in doing so. Options are a good thing, but some times a long time coming.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Here are my attacks of Kurt:
PM #1
Hi Kurt,
I am not trying to start anything with you but, you make alot of claims which I believe are very false. I have asked you about many of them on the posts you make but you never seem to answer me ( which is ok, no one is obligated to answer their claims here, we have no accountability for what we post). I am just curious however, you made a claim:
Quote:
I have found people who recover from alcoholism who don't go to AA (which is the majority of alcoholics)
Where do you get these facts from??? THe majority of alcoholics recover outside AA????? Based on what??? Please don't quote the Orange papers, they have more holes in them than anything AA GSO puts out.
Just curious if you can share with me.
PM#2
I will simply say that I have never ever said that AA is the only game in town. I was curious as to where Kurt got his facts from. Some folks here wish only to debate and spread their own agendas. I will have no part of this since it is no exchange of ideas and information.
Enjoy your whatever....
I don't believe I told Kurt he B-tching about anything. I have read Dr Valiants study too.
Kurt made the claim the HE ( when he said he I figured he meant Kurt)found people who recover from alcoholism who don't go to AA (which is the majority of alcoholics)
PM #1
Hi Kurt,
I am not trying to start anything with you but, you make alot of claims which I believe are very false. I have asked you about many of them on the posts you make but you never seem to answer me ( which is ok, no one is obligated to answer their claims here, we have no accountability for what we post). I am just curious however, you made a claim:
Quote:
I have found people who recover from alcoholism who don't go to AA (which is the majority of alcoholics)
Where do you get these facts from??? THe majority of alcoholics recover outside AA????? Based on what??? Please don't quote the Orange papers, they have more holes in them than anything AA GSO puts out.
Just curious if you can share with me.
PM#2
Hey Kurt,
Steve again ( Last time I'll bug you). I am guessing that since you never responded to my posts or now haven't responded to my PM's that I have either offended you, or perhaps something else I am not aware of. If I have offended you and there is anything I can do to rectify that, please let me know. I will continue to challenge posts I think are BS, I mean no offense by that, but it is what I will do. I will also try to reference anything I say and I hope you will do the same.
Steve again ( Last time I'll bug you). I am guessing that since you never responded to my posts or now haven't responded to my PM's that I have either offended you, or perhaps something else I am not aware of. If I have offended you and there is anything I can do to rectify that, please let me know. I will continue to challenge posts I think are BS, I mean no offense by that, but it is what I will do. I will also try to reference anything I say and I hope you will do the same.
I will simply say that I have never ever said that AA is the only game in town. I was curious as to where Kurt got his facts from. Some folks here wish only to debate and spread their own agendas. I will have no part of this since it is no exchange of ideas and information.
Enjoy your whatever....
I don't believe I told Kurt he B-tching about anything. I have read Dr Valiants study too.
Kurt made the claim the HE ( when he said he I figured he meant Kurt)found people who recover from alcoholism who don't go to AA (which is the majority of alcoholics)
Oh yeah, I've seen people representing all programs and perspectives crash and burn...
People support what works for them. Treatment centers do hold onto the tried and true methods of AA. Is this because they believe it is the one and only way of getting sober? I think it is more because AA has been around longer and is more readily available and prevalent. The other programs aren't that established or available. Maybe when they have become so, treatment centers will adapt more into their recovery programs.
For now, I believe they are leery because they are not that knowledgeable of it. Your counselor is going to relay what worked for him. I really don't find the fact that AA is used more prevalently that surprising. Historically, people can be resistant to new ideas. That doesn't mean new ways are inferior, it just takes time and action. It will catch on when sucessful results can be measured.
I still support you and your efforts in getting your LifeRing group going. I hope you are very successful in doing so. Options are a good thing, but some times a long time coming.
For now, I believe they are leery because they are not that knowledgeable of it. Your counselor is going to relay what worked for him. I really don't find the fact that AA is used more prevalently that surprising. Historically, people can be resistant to new ideas. That doesn't mean new ways are inferior, it just takes time and action. It will catch on when sucessful results can be measured.
I still support you and your efforts in getting your LifeRing group going. I hope you are very successful in doing so. Options are a good thing, but some times a long time coming.
I appreciate your (and everyone's) support. It's probably not gonna fly here, but I'll keep trying 'till my GTFO day comes, lol...
It's not about taking sides. It can be established whether people who want to quit are more successful, or less successful with AA. Of course everyone would be thrilled if AA was found to be successful... but in the end it won't be an opinion. And if AA is found to hinder peoples sobriety, then people will need to accept that too.
I'm not talking about individual cases. Everyone knows people who swear by AA. I'm talking statistics.
I want to add that even though no one is forced to work the program people who attend meetings will leave them believing some things the program says, even if they end up deciding it isnt for them. A lot of people may end up deciding they're not diseased, but will start believing others are, for example.
I'm not talking about individual cases. Everyone knows people who swear by AA. I'm talking statistics.
I want to add that even though no one is forced to work the program people who attend meetings will leave them believing some things the program says, even if they end up deciding it isnt for them. A lot of people may end up deciding they're not diseased, but will start believing others are, for example.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Navysteve - it is interesting to see your pm's in a i've got **** all to do for that 2 mins kind of way. I find it personally embarassing that someone with your length of sobriety should have to lower yourself to respond in anyway to this thread. Your posts and your progress are an inspiration to anyone who is serious about their recovery.
If anyone comes across this thread in google or a newcomer, read it enjoy the banter but do not take a ******* thing seriously!
If anyone comes across this thread in google or a newcomer, read it enjoy the banter but do not take a ******* thing seriously!
Treatment professionals should be able to offer a choice of therapies, or at least be aware of what treatments are available so that they can refer clients who they cannot help. IMO, if they are unable or unwilling to do that, they are not professionals.
I have struggled with the claim that most alcoholics in recovery do not get sober through AA, and also with the claims that AA's success rates are identical to the spontaneous remission rate for alcoholism (which, if true, would mean AA does not work--not in theory or practice), and I had to decide if I wanted to continue to be a member of AA despite the fact that it might not help me stay sober.
I decided to stay.
Why? Because I love the people in AA. They understand my problem and I have a sense of community. And also because I have found that the 12 steps have given me an outline to better myself as a sober member of society. I didn't get sober gracefully. I'm a naturally resentful, self-pitying, small-minded, and rebellious ego-maniac. I've found that the steps have helped me to become more humble, forgiving, and to see the reality of my behavior and how it effects others. Sometimes I can even admit when I am wrong now (talk about miracles!)
I am not religious. I do not believe the Big Book was divinely inspired and I do not read it as a sacred text, but as practical advice, and I take what makes sense to me and I leave the rest. Some members of my community disagree with my "brand" of AA and that is fine with me. They certainly are under no obligation to practice the program in the same manner that I do. But I am quite happy with my brand of AA, as it works for me, and my life gets a little better every day.
So whether or not most get sober without AA makes no difference to me. I just like AA and think I'll stick with it for now.
I decided to stay.
Why? Because I love the people in AA. They understand my problem and I have a sense of community. And also because I have found that the 12 steps have given me an outline to better myself as a sober member of society. I didn't get sober gracefully. I'm a naturally resentful, self-pitying, small-minded, and rebellious ego-maniac. I've found that the steps have helped me to become more humble, forgiving, and to see the reality of my behavior and how it effects others. Sometimes I can even admit when I am wrong now (talk about miracles!)
I am not religious. I do not believe the Big Book was divinely inspired and I do not read it as a sacred text, but as practical advice, and I take what makes sense to me and I leave the rest. Some members of my community disagree with my "brand" of AA and that is fine with me. They certainly are under no obligation to practice the program in the same manner that I do. But I am quite happy with my brand of AA, as it works for me, and my life gets a little better every day.
So whether or not most get sober without AA makes no difference to me. I just like AA and think I'll stick with it for now.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
As this thread was started from a miscommunication
and the OP has asked for an edit ....
it is now closed.
Thanks everyone for your opinions..thoughts...
and for sharing your personal experiences.
and the OP has asked for an edit ....
it is now closed.
Thanks everyone for your opinions..thoughts...
and for sharing your personal experiences.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)