Excerpts "Under The Influence"

[GreenTea]

Originally Posted by GreenTea

... By drinking continuously but never overdrinking ...

Yeah, that works -- up until the point where you DO start overdrinking, and you start doing it every time.

I also learned elsewhere that an increase in tolerance can be generated by overdrinking -- kind of like "exercising that drunk muscle". I wonder if the "tolerance" line has gotten pushed so far up that it doesn't have anywhere else to go anymore, resulting in the overdrinking happening every time whether drinking continuously or not.

Originally Posted by GreenTea

... the alcoholic can only temporarily control his drinking behavior ...

I've certainly had that proven to me over and over again!

[GreenTea]

The hangover can be excruciating for the non-alcoholic, but it becomes much worse for the alcoholic in the later stages of the disease. As one expert put it, "[Hangovers]... are so extreme for the alcoholic that they really should have a different name. No normal drinker would recognize them as what he has."

The source of the physical and mental pain of the alcoholic hangover is, to repeat, the state of hyperactivity in the central nervous system caused by the withdrawal of alcohol. The cells, which are accustomed to the presence of alcohol and dependent on it for energy, stimulation, and sedation, become agitated when it is suddenly not available. The cells' distress is experienced by the alcoholic as the headache, eyeache, dizziness, nausea, and anguish characteristic of the hangover, ("anguish" is an older term than "anxiety" and refers to both mental and physical pain or suffering -- "anxiety" refers only to psychological conflict or tension).

Alcoholics feel physically wretched during a hangover, but they also feel deeply and profoundly ashamed. From past experience, they know better, but they got drunk anyway -- why? Ignorant of the powerful workings of the addiction, the alcoholic can only blame himself. Remorse, self-loathing, and guilt therefore go hand in hand with the throbbing headache and queasy stomach ... "... the emotional pain which accompanies them -- the guilt, anxiety, self-accusation, the sense of hopelessness and despair ..." ... a very real and very painful physiological disorder.

The increasing misery of the alcoholic hangover is directly caused by the drinker's physical dependence on alcohol. As this goes by and the alcoholic drinks more, and more often, the withdrawal symptoms -- experienced in those minutes, hours, or days without a drink -- become more severe. He begins to feel shame and remorse when he repeatedly fails in his efforts to stop drinking or control his intake. He cannot make good his intentions to drink as everyone else does, and this personal failure causes great guilt and despair. The alcoholic believes that he should be able to control himself by a sheer force of will. He does not know that the physical addiction is in command of his every thought and action and subverts his persistent efforts to control it.

... The alcoholic's most cherished values -- his honesty, integrity, self-discipline, even his love for his family -- are repeatedly overthrown because he cannot reliably predict or control his own drinking behavior. Any normal human being would feel disgust and self-loathing at this seemingly pathetic inability to exert control and exercise will power; and so does the alcoholic, who may be normal in every respect except his reaction to alcohol.

The alcoholic's guilt, depression, self-loathing , and despair are therefore understandable reactions to a bewildering and mysterious inability to stop the ravages of drinking. Neither the alcoholic nor those around him know that his cells have become abnormal, for the physical dependence and cellular addiction have worked inside him for months or perhaps years, invisible and unnoticed. No wonder the alcoholic believes he is weak-willed and pathetic. No wonder many of the people who observe his behavior believe that he is psychologically unstable, self-destructive, and perhaps suicidal. Without an understanding or knowledge of his addiction, they have no way of knowing that the alcoholic's irrational behavior is beyond his control.

[GreenTea]

There's a lot more in the book, and I strongly recommend finding a copy somewhere for yourself. I'm about to give away my current copy (again) to a friend later today, (I should just buy two at a time!).

Anyway...

So, if you're wondering whether you're an alcoholic or not, you might ask yourself what kind of hangovers do you experience? Have they ever changed over time? If they have, when did their natures start to become different? What were your drinking patterns then compared to now?

Its as if the protracted (PAWS) withdrawal is like one extended hangover until your cells start to function right again. So just one more, last, long, hangover and its all behind you -- no more hangovers after that ever again!

I think it took me about two weeks total before the main physical stuff worked its way through. At that point, all the mental stuff started up and I began to remember why I drank so much. I've been working through that with God's help (my HP), and life is starting to look a little more liveable these days.

I noticed last week that its been a little while since the last time I felt like "having a few pints" or stopping at a pub to "hang out". My spare time doesn't have to be spent like that -- I can find other things to do even if its just taking a nap. Reading and posting here at SR between meetings is another example! (I suppose I'll have to tackle them dishes soon too).

I am glad that I don't ever have to go through one of those horrible hangovers or deal with the withdrawal crap ever again! ... I can keep all of that behind me -- I don't ever have to do it again if I don't want to, and that's at least a choice I CAN make. Today is day 71 and life is getting better.

I hope these excerpts and commentary are helpful if you are thinking about your relationship with alcohol. If nothing else, hopefully its been informative.

[GreenTea]

I know that book has always been pretty accurate as regards my own experiences. I'm still looking forward to reading its sequel "Beyond The Influence".

One of the things that strikes me is how the cellular changes have been occuring and that newly acquired "problem drinking" is only the "latest" manifestation of it.

Most people in the recovery community regard alcoholism as a disease, or as an allergy, or at the minimum as a syndrome or condition. The point is that everyone agrees that there's something different with an alcoholic compared to a nonalcoholic as regards alcohol use. The physiological perspective works for me, largely in part because it seems to match so well with my personal experiences (I know which side of the fence I've crashed through).

If I read correctly, it may be possible to measure an actual physiological difference by monitoring the acetaldehyde levels between alcoholics and nonalcoholics during use. Its as physical a sign as someone turning blue during an asma attack (and just as desired, I'm sure).

[Arura]

WoW ((GT)) , opened my eyes to a lot of stuff there matey ...Thanks for the exerts, from the book. Much apprictaited...!

Thanks for the food for thougth...!

[2dayzmuse]

As far as the allergy aspect goes, I would become flushed and break out in red blotches all over my body within a few sips after drinking.

[Lastbinge]

Interesting reading Greentea......the part from page 67 about the hangovers fit me to a "T".

I like you am glad I have experienced my last one. I'm not too far behind you in time "dry"...52 days and I thank God to have made it and to have no urges to ever drink again. I read here on SR about peoples cravings and their....for lack of a better word I'll use sorrow, about not ever being able to drink again due to their alcoholism.

I am thankful to not have the cravings and I certainly have no "sorrow" about never tasting another drop of alcohol, the thought of drinking again turns my stomach, likely because of the pain I have been through in numerous detox withdrawals over the span of my 30 some year drinking career.

Thanks for posting the excerpts from this book

Scott

[ibhmn]

GreanTea,

Kudos for all your work typing and bringing us these insights. It sure makes me want to buy the book now.

I hope google grabs hold of many of these posts and enlightens many to become SR members--and new book owners. (I found SR by googling anxiety and something else that I can't remember.)

These posts are so educational that I think this thread should be a sticky for new members. Anna and Carol, what do you think?

[GreenTea]

I'm very glad people have found this topic to be informative, and hopefully helpful. The name of the book again is "Under The Influence" and I highly recommend it.

Originally Posted by 2dayzmuse

As far as the allergy aspect goes, I would become flushed and break out in red blotches all over my body within a few sips after drinking.

The last time I went out drinking, I broke out in handcuffs!

[GreenTea]

(Sorry it took me so long Carol, and THANKS for the sticky!)

The middle-stage alcoholic has probably been having blackouts from time to time. Blackouts are a very distinctive feature of alcoholism, and one symptom that clearly distinguishes alcoholics from non-alcoholics. The events which occur during an alcoholic blackout are not forgotten; they are simply not stored or are imperfectly stored in the brain. There is nothing there to be recalled later.

During a blackout, the alcoholic may be functioning normally and aware of everything that is happening around him. He continues to talk, walk, eat, drive a car, conduct a business deal, or make love to his wife. Yet on sobering up, he has no memory trace of what occurred during a certain time period -- it could be a minute, an hour, or even several days. In the early stages of the disease, blackouts are relatively infrequent, but as the disease progresses, they occur more often and last for longer periods of time.

Jack attended a series of weekend meetings held in a city 90 miles from his home. The last meeting ended in midafternoon, and Jack retired to the bar with several friends. It was happy hour, and the bartender announced a special on martinis: six ounces of gin for just $2.00. Jack drank four specials and then decided to order dinner before he drove home. With dinner, he drank a bottle of wine. It was late when he started driving, but he remembered watching the moon rise over the low hills. The next thing he knew and could later recall, he was travelling 110 mph and was 25 miles past his exit. He had driven 100 miles in a blackout.

It is not difficult to imagine how frightening blackouts can be. The alcoholic may wake up in the morning with no recall of the events of the previous evening. He gets out of bed, afraid to inspect his clothes -- did he get sick? Then the question occurs to him: "How did I get home?" He looks out the window, fearful that the car will be missing. He does not remember driving home.

The car is there, and he has another, even more frightening thought: "Did I hit something or someone?" He runs outside and looks at the front end. He searches the seats for clues to help him piece the lost time back together. Humiliating thoughts race through his mind: "Did I disgrace myself? Will my friends talk to me? How can I find out what happened when I am too embarrassed to admit that I don't remember?"

Blackouts can be so frightening that they make the alcoholic question his sanity. For the first time he may realize that he is in deep trouble with alcohol. Despite his increasing problems, however, the middle-stage alcoholic rarely considers giving up drinking...

[GreenTea]

Boy, I can certainly relate to all of that!

I guess I was a highly functional drunk right up there until the very end. Its amazing what you can accomplish when you're walking around out cold. This brings "state-dependent learning" questions into issue, too. What's even more funny is when you start being able to recognize "blackout states" in your drinking buddies.

Blackouts... I'm not missing those! And yeah, they are scary. Its also sometimes referred to as "time travel" or "teleportation", (one second its midnight at the pub, the next second its noon in your bed).

I don't know sometimes which is worse... Waking up not remembering what happened and having to glean it all from everyone around you, (they all remember, and they all know that you don't). Or waking up, and after a few minutes, recalling something really bad that did happen, (yes, now that you remember the nightmare, it really was for real -- welcome back to life!). -shudder-

I personally have "woken up" driving down the road with the sun coming up and no clue where I was at. (So what do you do in a situation like that? Find a gas station, go use the bathroom to take stock of yourself, wash your face, buy something to drink -- good time to check the cash, if any, in your pocket -- fill up, look at the headline on the newspaper to check what day it is, ask the guy if you can use a map and please show me where we are right now? What time is it? If he asks where you're trying to get to, tell him truthfully wherever you live -- its almost like training for time travel field work!)

Anyway... Those "what about the car?" feelings were some of the worst. And to think that by the end there, I was doing that to myself about three or four times a week. I would actually pray on the way to the place asking for forgivenenss and protection, hoping that I wouldn't do something too stupid by morning and that I'd get home okay, (just like a sitcom, everything back to normal again by the end of the show). At the end there, I knew something was wrong, and I started praying for help.

Seriously, what other activities do we do where we know ahead of time that we will have occurences of "running on automatic" and "lost time"? ... UFO chasing? ... General anethesia? ... Sleeping? ... What else? ... Amazing what we put ourselves through, and what we get used to dealing with.

I'm glad I don't have to go through any of that ever again.

[CarolD]

As I lived in a city...driving was not an issue.

Blackouts?? I mistakenly thought all drinkers blacked out.

I eventually trained myself for them..

I was a bar hopping drunk...I would take the personalized
matchbooks from places...
then the next morning I knew where I had been.

I far too often needed to ask the dreaded morning after query...

"What's your name again, Honey?"

Once sober,,,no more blackouts!

[WEE DEE]

This thread has been fantastic for me Green Tea - definately gonna buy that book (hopefully tomorrow)!!!

Blackouts became a big thing for me in the last 2 years. Like the text said earlier - no matter how I tried there are things that are gone forever.

In a blackout I lashed out verbally and abusively at people. Apparently I tried to kick my boss down some pub stairs - I strongly denied it at the time. But as I've got sober I'm not so sure. I was lucky to keep my job. Probably because she was drunk too and couldn't say for definate.

Those blackouts are one of the main things that have kept me sober. I dread the thought of lifting a drink again and the possibility another blackout might engulf me. Too horrible to contemplate.

I've heard people talk about this book but never really paid to much attention. I wish I had.

Thank you - you've certainly strengthened my resolve to stay sober!!!!

Take care.
D.xxx

[WEE DEE]

Oh Carol - me too.

I ended up marrying the last guy whose name I had to ask!!!!

Now there's a deterent not to drink if every there was one.

D.xxx

[Chy]

Great, great thread GT!

[Zephyr]

Thanks for posting the info on blackouts. I was looking for that specifically. I was a blackout drinker from an early age. Towards the end it got really bad. I was drinking to keep from dealing with my dysfunctional family. I knew that sober I would never harm my kids. When I would wake up from a blackout I was always fearful that I might have hurt them. Thank God I never did. I am also thankful that I don't have to try and piece together the night before anymore, check the caller ID to see who I talked to, wonder if I went out in the front yard naked, etc. Sober is good.

[SuperDave]

Thanks GT
I'm new to SR and now I know i've come to the right place. I can identify in myself almost all of the characteristics mentioned from the those excerpts. Pretty informative and scary stuff.

[midgetcop]

I was lucky in that I didn't often experience blackouts...I'd usually only get them if I drank something harder than beer, such as a lot of wine or hard liquor. But when I DID have them....it scared the bajeezus out of me! I found mainly that my memories of the night-before would be hazy, and I would forget conversations I'd had, and I'd usually forget going to bed (or passing out, more accurately). Not sure if that fully constitutes a black out.

[dave65]

i'm reading that book right now, it's nearly 1.30 am here in the uk and i havn't had a drink for the first time in ages and i can't sleep, the bit in the book about malnutrition is very true for me as i've always been a fit guy but when i'm drinking i end up weak and loose weight.

[KJJ]

there's so much good , informative info here and i'll read and re-read,explains my lows in the morning with no alcohol, i tried coffee to get the energy and that doesn't work, i've heard about honey and orange juice in the morning, i have both at home sooo..giving it a try KJJ

[nolonger]

Green Tea - thanks so much for posting all this. I'm going to go get hold of the book itself.

[ay100]

I will get that book too. GreenTea thank you very much for those excerpts, although knowing most of the information , this thread became a rude awakening to me.

May God help me I am kicking this habit!

[MLALOK]

Trying to get inside the head of my dead Alc man. Trying to understand what he was going through, and why he had to do and hide it all. SO terribly sad, such a clever and wonderful man, who loved me so much, but hid this terrible disease from me and all who loved him.

[Jen26]

Thanks so very much for this one GreenTea.
From your excerps, I have identified that I am in the middle stages of alcoholism and have been for about two years.

Despite his increasing problems, however, the middle-stage alcoholic rarely considers giving up drinking..

While I haven't increased the frequency of my drinking, I am starting to get the black outs. Looks as though now would be the best time for me to quit, before I get to the late stages of the disease.

All of this also explains why once I start (after two drinks) I don't feel I can stop and I do crave more alcohol- badly!

Thanks again, it's inspiring and motivating stuff.
Jen

[jrmar]

Great thread GT thank you I too will get the book. It really hits home with me.

I don't know sometimes which is worse... Waking up not remembering what happened and having to glean it all from everyone around you, (they all remember, and they all know that you don't). Or waking up, and after a few minutes, recalling something really bad that did happen, (yes, now that you remember the nightmare, it really was for real -- welcome back to life!). -shudder-

So True, So True. Thank you, Green tea