Tommyh

ok
tommy here,alcoholic

this spinoff came from Steves 13th stepping thread,
after reading what a few of you all said about certain things there,I felt I really needed to post this.This is serious,not a joke.Really.

well,Ladies,I do have a confession to make.First off,it is my problem,not yours.I`m not blaming you at all.

There has been many times I talked to a womans chest.They had plenty of cleavage showing and for some reason my eyes locked onto it,and then I could not seem to look higher..Now I`m sure some ladies would have felt like crap when I did that.We have a nice lady in my home group.She is very pretty and dresses very well,but sometimes she used to have plenty of cleavage showing.When we talked,I had to force myself to stare directly into her eyes,looking at nothing lower.I felt like it took everything I could muster to do it.

I have felt mighty uncomfortable at times talking to ladies showing a lot of cleavage,but it is not your fault,I have a problem I realize.I love it to tell the truth.
Don`t get me wrong,I behave myself and do not say or do anything else out of the way.
But when it makes me uncomfortable,it has probably made you uncomfortable and it`s time to consider something....so,if someone here has a suggestion,I will definitely try it.Something just comes over me and poof,eyes locked,brain goes blank or haywire.DUH
maybe a mens meeting is in order

sugErspun

Maybe a poster you can put on the wall and practice talking to? An overdose of cleavage could desensitize you a bit and the reaction won't be so strong.

j/k

A skill I have practiced - and works well - stare at the nose just between the eyes. Then one eye, and the other...Only person who knows you are uncomfortable is you.

bob_sapp

I disagree. I have eyes to see. While it is not polite for me to stare or leer, if you choose to wear revealing clothing, I will look every time. And if I don't look, I am thinking about it. If I fart in front of you, is it your fault because you smell it?

lizw

Imagin she's your daughter or your mother.
I've been told it works wonders and stops a guy viewing woman as a 'thing' rather than a person.

Taking5

Ditto what Bob said.

bob_sapp

Imagining her calling me daddy isn't going to help.

frstnm

If they have it, sometimes they flaunt it. I cant deni that sometimes I do the same things. It does make it difficult if they have been winking and giving "that look". Sometimes I definetly get the wrong impression at points as well.


My X used to say that if a guy was asked what color her eyes were; his response would be, "My EYEs are ROUND or something." With her stature it was almost impossible not to stare.

frstnm

Some days I wish a woman would 13th step ME.

Its an honest program.

Omega Man

I honestly couldn't tell you the eye color of anyone I ever dated; maybe my wifes - maybe. LOL

PaulN

You asked for a suggestion Steve ... I agree ... a men's meeting would be a good start, but a men's group would be even better. That's my experience.

Tazman53

I would be a liar if I said I did not notice an attractive woman, when I was younger and still in a hormonal rage I to had a very difficult time not staring. Was it the ladies fault???? No, if I feel uncomfortable that is my bust, but she could share some of the blame, did she choose the top because it was revealing or because it was comfortable?

I really see no difference in a man rolling up his sleeves and leaving the top buttons of his shirt open, is he doing so to be more comfortable or is he doing it to show off his physique?

I am 55 so yes I will still look at an attractive woman, but I do not stare, for several reasons, it is impolite, it is immature, & I am happily married, it does not matter to me if she is dressing that way for comfort or to advertise.

Bballdad I really have no words of advice except if it makes you feel uncomfortable perhaps you could just avoid them. I have seen women stare at men the same way I have seen some men stare at women, it is natural to apreciate the beauty of the opposite sex.

Sugah

I almost typed an angry reply to this thread this morning.

First of all, I'm feminist, which means a lot of things, one being that women are not and should not be treated as objects. Women should be able to dress and act in whatever way they feel is "authentic" to them. However, I am not a fan of revealing clothing in any context, primarily because it feeds objectification. So, when I have worked with women coming into the rooms wearing their weekend bar wardrobe--the one that enabled them to drink all night cheaply or for free, I make respectful suggestions that they consider moderating their appearance.

I'm not a prude. I like to look nice, and from April to October, you'll rarely see me in the rooms wearing pants instead of a dress. I happen to like dresses better than pants--they're much more comfortable, especially in warm weather. But, my intentions are not to attract men. The only one I care about attracting, I'm married to, and yes, I still dress to attract him, though those "clothes" are covered up by the ones everyone else sees on the outside. :P

I appreciate that men are human, and heterosexual men are going to react in some way to a woman who is dressed provocatively. While you're working on seeing beyond that, we women can do our part by helping the women we work with to see themselves as something more than an object to attract men.

There, feminist rant over

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Emimily

isn't this what a 5th step with a sponsor is for? or a 10th step?

blech.

thank GOD i'm not a guy.

sugErspun

What's wrong with being a guy? (sorry...I couldn't resist)

zoomer

Lol

SoberforME

I'm in an interesting situation.

I'm a woman. I'm a feminine woman that dresses well and yes, that means that sometimes I have cleavage showing. I am also gay.

My take on it is that to a degree we know that you're looking. For me, that's really nothing but at worse it's really uncomfortable. I've had a lot of men that keep hitting on me/ leering even after finding out I'm gay. That makes me feel unsafe.

However, that being said. If you are glancing because you can't help it once or twice, fine. Anyone that knows that they have cleavage showing will write it off. If you are coming up with scary stalker man vibe, then you need to reevaluate the behavior and remove yourself from mixed meetings until you can control yourself.

my .02

Ago

4th step even

My sex powers are God given, therefore Good, not to be used lightly nor despised and loathed.

Mentally "mounting" some girl dressed provocatively and leering at her breasts isn't really in the "ideal" I came up with, although for me, I'm reminded of the story of the man who went to confession and said he was being tortured by lewd thoughts.

His Pastor asked "are you entertaining these thoughts?"

We aren't "responsible" for our first thought, but we are responsible for our second thought, and what we do with them.

I'm not saying I don't happen to glance over and see some woman now and again that makes me go "Holy Crap!!!!" but as soon as I can gather the remnants of my brain that weren't just completely fried I carry on with what I'm doing, and I certainly don't approach them.

The attractive women I already know, it's another story, I can admire their beauty and compliment them on their outfit without inadvertently "objectifying" them.

We treat sex just like anything else in our life, if it's troublesome, we jump into helping others with more fervor.

It's funny but 99.99999% of the time you CAN tell how much time a woman has by how she dresses. I was at a meeting the other night and there was a very attractive woman dressed "over the top" provocatively and my mind went straight to "newcomer" stay away, then at "birthdays" she announced she had four years I was like WTF????

the judgment was mine.

The "instructions" are there in the book in the fourth step, they really are, sex is normal and healthy, it's just that we aren't for quite some time after we get here, some are never "healthy" in the rooms about relationships.

I went looking for a "relationship sponsor" for years, someone who had what I wanted, a healthy relationship, when I couldn't find one, I went to therapy and couples counseling with a woman who had, at that time 15 years I think?

I "became" what it was I was looking for.

Worked for me....kind of like sobriety, I have a "daily reprieve" of mental health, when I stopped doing the things I needed to do in order to stay sober, happy, joyous and free, I went out and found a girl who matched my mental condition at the time....which was poor at best.

/shrug.

We take care of our "insides" and our "spiritual condition" and our "outsides" take care of themselves, as long as we "do the work" necessary" to have a healthy relationship with ourselves and others, there's no reason we can't have a healthy sex life, whether it be single or "committed".

To thine own self be true, then you can be false to no (wo)man

Probably the one "strict" rule I've ever had, is I've never slept with someone with less time then me, I did break rule #1 though, which is "don't sleep with someone even crazier then you" I don't really recommend it unless you want to find out why It's rule #1.

Emimily

being dangle wouldn't be too bad, i don't think.

CarolD

Hmm..
It's my observation that men are more visual than women
about sexual stimulation.
Especially unatainable females...hence porn
is mostly a male deal.

Long before drinking entered my life...I knew how to attract
males. Movies ...books...magzines ..all showed me how to be
provocative.

If I wear low cut tops...or tight sweaters
I expect men to look at the obvious.

It's not a question of fault ..it's delibert on my part.

Just my personal experience ...nothing to do with AA.
:

IO Storm

Well..most of you read my ESH on the 13th Step thread thread.

So..this post doesn't make angry at all..after al, we are human!

Not robots. I look at men. And I have to think for a moment,..the part that would

interest me, besides their kind face..is placed low on the anatomy.

I am not tempted to stare. That would be obvious..

Men do have a disadvantage if a female has quite a lot showing.

Look..I am not gay. But I notice.

I am not a man. I can only imagine, and listen to what you men have to share.

bbaldad..

To answer your question..

If it really "bothers you" all that much..don't talk to the scantily clad woman.

Keep it simple.