I've been 13th stepped / In need of advice

[Secondchances]

Well, I never thought this would happen to me, but I do believe I've been 13th stepped by someone whose intention with me was less than honorable.

He has 10 years of sobriety and I have a couple of months, although I had five months before that, and two years a long time ago in the program, so technically I don't view myself as a newcomer.

At any rate, he came on pretty aggressively and things got a bit out of hand, although I didn't sleep with him (thank God). However, he's called me twice in 10 days and I've seen him at meetings and it's been quite ackward. Thing is, he told me he wanted a relationship with me and was concerned that someone would give him a hard time at the club, if they knew he was involved with a newcomer, so he wanted to keep things "quiet." I told him that while I wasn't about to advertise anything, I wasn't going to be dishonest either.

So...I can't figure out what the heck is going on. I invited him over for dinner in a couple of days so I'll set the record straight at that time. I know I shouldn't "go there," but I find the one year rule to be really stupid, considering I've been around the rooms for 25 plus years and know the ropes. However, I am also aware I may not be the only one he's gotten involved with, I live very close to that club and am not about to not go there, and I do want to be comfortable there. Any advice short of just tell him NO, even though I think I see the writing on the wall and I'll end up doing that anyway? I sure wish he hadn't been so pushy and I sure wish we'd started off slowly just as friends. Thanks.

SC

[best]

I will do with you what you should do with him... Be direct


From what I have read in your post, you look like all you are looking for is someone to say it is ok to do what ever you want.
From what I read in your post, many red flags pop up as well.

One year rule is a sugestion that is shared for a reason.
Follow along and things should go well or do as you please and find out first hand why they give such sugestions.

Your life, your choice.

[CarolD]

I have no trust in a guy who is sneaky.

Dinner? Surely you jest.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by best

I will do with you what you should do with him... Be direct


From what I have read in your post, you look like all you are looking for is someone to say it is ok to do what ever you want.
From what I read in your post, many red flags pop up as well.

One year rule is a sugestion that is shared for a reason.
Follow along and things should go well or do as you please and find out first hand why they give such sugestions.

Your life, your choice.

Maybe you could elaborate a little bit, with respect to those red flags and why I should follow the course of action that is suggested? I posted this looking for feedback. Of course I want to do what I want to do, but that doesn't mean I'm going to. Sorry, I'm grouchy tonight. Too little sleep and allergies. Thanks.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by CarolD

I have no trust in a guy who is sneaky.

Dinner? Surely you jest.

No, he took me out so I'm reciprocating. I got lectured about this on another forum, and I'd hate to be accused of being an avaricious money grubber like I was on the other forum. Sounded like a good idea at the time, although I wish I could retract, but I won't. Maybe he'll cancel.

[best]

Being a recovered alcoholic and being a guy... a sixth sense is saying to me...he can't be or maybe better said, shouldn't be trusted. Sneak around and hush hush. First thing I would do...check and see if he is married.
If it is ment to be and he has any respect for you at all, he would listen when you say.... this is going to fast and you need to back off.

Any time someone needs to sneak around and remain hush hush, there is a reason for it.

shhhh don't tell anyone (because those who know me may tell you things I don't want you to know)
shhhh don't tell anyone (because if I work this right, I can pull the wool over your eyes and others would just get in the way)

Then again... his intentions may be all honorable but hey.. he is a guy and so am I... there may be other motives for his actions or inactions.

[CarolD]

OK....perhaps you could read

Page 119 in rhe 12 & 12 to each other.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by best

Being a recovered alcoholic and being a guy... a sixth sense is saying to me...he can't be or maybe better said, shouldn't be trusted. Sneak around and hush hush. First thing I would do...check and see if he is married.
If it is ment to be and he has any respect for you at all, he would listen when you say.... this is going to fast and you need to back off.

Any time someone needs to sneak around and remain hush hush, there is a reason for it.

shhhh don't tell anyone (because those who know me may tell you things I don't want you to know)
shhhh don't tell anyone (because if I work this right, I can pull the wool over your eyes and others would just get in the way)

Then again... his intentions may be all honorable but hey.. he is a guy and so am I... there may be other motives for his actions or inactions.

Thanks, best. Usually I am pretty good at gauging people but not this time. I get along with men just fine, but it's the sneaky ones that give me concern.

I already checked him out and he is unmarried. Normally I wouldn't bother (I'd just take him at his word), but I did.

I think the best thing for me to do is to do that which will make me feel best about myself in the long run, which means to just follow through on the plan and then be honest with him. I already have pretty much decided it's a no go. I guess I was just trying to figure out the best way to get my message delivered and remain friends. I'd like to be able to go to coffee with the group he hangs out with, and that won't happen if I'm a biatch about things.

[best]

I no can always get changed into a yes.
A yes getting changed back into a no, well that can be like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by CarolD

OK....perhaps you could read

Page 119 in rhe 12 & 12 to each other.

Thanks, Carol. I will check that out!

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by best

I no can always get changed into a yes.
A yes getting changed back into a no, well that can be like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.

Very good analogy. I know what to do. Sometimes I'd just rather do what I want to do instead of the right thing. The right thing is to ensure my unimpeded access to that club at any meeting, whether he goes to it or not, and feel comfortable doing so, and not like I'm some psycho stalker. I don't want to get a resentment either, and I am trying to take the high road on this one. I get to make up for all the mistakes I made when drinking. I get to remember everything! It's like a do over.

[keyplyr]

Have fun, don't drink - be happy

[Sheryl85]

If you could endure one more comment on the subject...

If you feel safe with the dinner engagement plans, I would follow through with them keeping in mind the quote, “To thine own self be true.� Before that day though I would make sure that I’ve reviewed the part in the BB on page 70 that says…

“Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? Does this mean we are going to get drunk? Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our experience.�

What are the two basic instincts that we humans have? Number one is self-survival and two is to seek out and find a mate. We run into major problems when we get those two swapped. I would have to think long and hard about the whole situation and review what my motives are for continuing with the relationship. (I use the word relationship because anytime we have contact with another human being we have established a relationship… some are just a whole lot better than others.) I will admit that I have been guilty of praying not to be led into temptation, and then turn right back around and run right under it. Therefore, I’m qualified to say, think about the reasons that people advise the “year� rule. I’ll be honest and tell you that I didn’t adhere to it. My sponsor didn’t tell me that I had to because she didn’t do it and her sponsor before her was the same way. (Three generations of hard-headed women, I guess you’d say…) But each one of us had to dodge a bullet on the relationship thing. I won’t bore you with the details, but if I hadn’t been serious about my program at the time, the results could have been disastrous. At that point in my sobriety, I was very vulnerable and could have bought into the entire BS thing that was being told to me. But I didn’t.

I don’t want you to think that I am pooh-poohing your attempt at being civil and I sure wouldn’t want to tell a person new in sobriety, “Get thee to a nunnery!� Everyone deserves to be happy, but is that what this is really about? Ask yourself this, is it a search for happiness or cure for loneliness that's the driving force here?

Okay, I know there has to be someone else out there besides me who would really like to know this, but I won’t even start to ask questions regarding the 10 years and 31day thing and what's really going on there. (You bet he wouldn’t want a bunch of people knowing about it! Sheesh!) I'm glad to see where you said that the right thing was to ensure your unimpeded access to that club (and) at any meeting. Priorities are imparitive to success.

Good luck to you and let us know how it turns out...

[Music]

Originally Posted by Secondchances

Well, I never thought this would happen to me, but I do believe I've been 13th stepped by someone whose intention with me was less than honorable.

He has 10 years of sobriety and I have a couple of months, although I had five months before that, and two years a long time ago in the program, so technically I don't view myself as a newcomer.

At any rate, he came on pretty aggressively and things got a bit out of hand, although I didn't sleep with him (thank God). However, he's called me twice in 10 days and I've seen him at meetings and it's been quite ackward. Thing is, he told me he wanted a relationship with me and was concerned that someone would give him a hard time at the club, if they knew he was involved with a newcomer, so he wanted to keep things "quiet." I told him that while I wasn't about to advertise anything, I wasn't going to be dishonest either.

So...I can't figure out what the heck is going on. I invited him over for dinner in a couple of days so I'll set the record straight at that time. I know I shouldn't "go there," but I find the one year rule to be really stupid, considering I've been around the rooms for 25 plus years and know the ropes. However, I am also aware I may not be the only one he's gotten involved with, I live very close to that club and am not about to not go there, and I do want to be comfortable there. Any advice short of just tell him NO, even though I think I see the writing on the wall and I'll end up doing that anyway? I sure wish he hadn't been so pushy and I sure wish we'd started off slowly just as friends. Thanks.

SC

First off, you are a newcomer. You've been bouncing in and out so obviously something's not getting stuck between your ears. Next, quit playing the victom here. You got what you asked for. Your last sentence is the key. The blame is on him and all you had to say was "no", not interested. As far as dinner goes, you could have coffee at the club, or somewhere else. To invite him over makes me wonder if dinner is all you've got planned. You may have also heard that newcomers should stick with AA women who've been around for a while. That way you have a safe place. AAs aren't bad people trying to get good, we're sick people trying to get well and both of you have some healing to do. You should tell your sponsor and have her, talk to his sponsor and nip this in the bud right away. You've invited trouble and now you're getting it.

[Peter]

If you are that uncomfortable about it cancel the dinner and call your sponsor.

The "one year suggestion" can be kinda difficult but if you feel a need to be with someone find someone with some more honesty.

You did the right thing by posting about it.

[Chance]

I know I shouldn't "go there," but I find the one year rule to be really stupid, considering I've been around the rooms for 25 plus years and know the ropes.

Lets see you have been around the rooms for 25 years, you know the ropes, your not a newcomer but in your post the guy views you as a newcomer. I don't know anything but I do know that if I wasn't willing to do whatever was suggested to me when I got here this time I would still be running on self will which I do anyway. I try not to but sometimes I think that it is my way or the highway and where did my way get me DRUNK and HIGH>>>

I was introduced to the program in 1996 by a 17 year old and he told me maybe I should try meetings. I went to maybe 4 or 6 and went back and told my pastor that they said we are sick people with a disease that can not be cured. He told me I didn't need to go back there and I didn't until 2002. I have not been clean and sober since then. I was one month from having two years when I went back out because I thought I was ready for a relationship boy was I ever wrong.

I struggled from April of 2004 until March 29, 2005. Now I haven't had to go back out since March 29, of this year but it is nothing that I have done. I take suggestion, yes I would like someone around but you know what I am starting to be OK with me today and that is what it is truly about. No suggestions here, wish you the best. I will send good thoughts your way..

Love Vic

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by Music

First off, you are a newcomer. You've been bouncing in and out so obviously something's not getting stuck between your ears. Next, quit playing the victom here. You got what you asked for. Your last sentence is the key. The blame is on him and all you had to say was "no", not interested. As far as dinner goes, you could have coffee at the club, or somewhere else. To invite him over makes me wonder if dinner is all you've got planned. You may have also heard that newcomers should stick with AA women who've been around for a while. That way you have a safe place. AAs aren't bad people trying to get good, we're sick people trying to get well and both of you have some healing to do. You should tell your sponsor and have her, talk to his sponsor and nip this in the bud right away. You've invited trouble and now you're getting it.

Will you do me a favor and please refrain from taking my inventory and assessing my motives? You don't know me, so I'd really appreciate it. Posts like this just serve to **** me off big time. Thank you.

Just to set you straight...I didn't "get what I asked for." I happen to have lots of male friends in the program who don't comport themselves aggressively, so this is why I was thrown off. Dinner is all I have planned, although the truth is I AM interested in him. It doesn't mean I have to act on it. My female sponsor has no problem with my knowing him and was 13th stepped herself INTO the program. Before you tell me to get a new sponsor, let me tell you she has eight years of sobriety. The guy has 10 years of sobriety. I would hope he's pretty well "healed" by now, but the one thing I will agree with is that I do have some healing to do. There is no need for my sponsor to talk to his sponsor. We're not children, fer chrissakes. Lastly, I have not invited trouble. I have invited someone over for dinner. Yikes, it's simplistic posts like this that make me really have a big problem with AA. But that's ok, because I've read enough of your posts to know you come down in an AA Nazi style on everyone, which is really counterproductive, IMHO.

eta: I've reviewed your profile and have a better idea where you are coming from and why. This is probably why you take such a hard line on things, which works for you. Please just realize it doesn't work for everyone and can actually hurt someone else.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by luckyv2

Lets see you have been around the rooms for 25 years, you know the ropes, your not a newcomer but in your post the guy views you as a newcomer. I don't know anything but I do know that if I wasn't willing to do whatever was suggested to me when I got here this time I would still be running on self will which I do anyway. I try not to but sometimes I think that it is my way or the highway and where did my way get me DRUNK and HIGH>>>

I was introduced to the program in 1996 by a 17 year old and he told me maybe I should try meetings. I went to maybe 4 or 6 and went back and told my pastor that they said we are sick people with a disease that can not be cured. He told me I didn't need to go back there and I didn't until 2002. I have not been clean and sober since then. I was one month from having two years when I went back out because I thought I was ready for a relationship boy was I ever wrong.

I struggled from April of 2004 until March 29, 2005. Now I haven't had to go back out since March 29, of this year but it is nothing that I have done. I take suggestion, yes I would like someone around but you know what I am starting to be OK with me today and that is what it is truly about. No suggestions here, wish you the best. I will send good thoughts your way..

Love Vic

Thanks for sharing your experience. I was very young when I resumed drinking after 26 months of sobriety, 22 to be exact. I didn't really think I had a problem, thinking it was just your typical teenage stuff. However, that has been shown to not be the case. I do the best I can and don't beat myself up over stuff, as that is counterproductive to my getting well.

I'm glad you found your way back into AA.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by Peter

If you are that uncomfortable about it cancel the dinner and call your sponsor.

The "one year suggestion" can be kinda difficult but if you feel a need to be with someone find someone with some more honesty.

You did the right thing by posting about it.

Thanks, Peter. I slept on it and think I'll just call him and tell him I can't have anything romantic to do with him at this time, but if he wants to come for dinner, that's fine. I do plan to start attending a meeting he does regularly, as it's a 4 p.m. and each day at 5 p.m. I get really depressed. Probably has to do with Seasonal Affective Disorder and the shorter days, but it sucks. I think honesty is very important and will stick with those who do this as a matter of course. I can always try, however, to elicit honest responses before I throw in the towel, as it's a belief of mine that I need to give things an honest effort before just tossing someone aside.

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by Sheryl85

I don’t want you to think that I am pooh-poohing your attempt at being civil and I sure wouldn’t want to tell a person new in sobriety, “Get thee to a nunnery!� Everyone deserves to be happy, but is that what this is really about? Ask yourself this, is it a search for happiness or cure for loneliness that's the driving force here?

Okay, I know there has to be someone else out there besides me who would really like to know this, but I won’t even start to ask questions regarding the 10 years and 31day thing and what's really going on there. (You bet he wouldn’t want a bunch of people knowing about it! Sheesh!) I'm glad to see where you said that the right thing was to ensure your unimpeded access to that club (and) at any meeting. Priorities are imparitive to success.

Good luck to you and let us know how it turns out...

To answer your question, I think it's both a search for happiness and a way not to feel lonely. But I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in spending time with men in the program, as long as everything is up front and in the proper perspective. What I do think is wrong is not spending more time with women, which is something I need to work on.

I don't know what is going on with the 10 year and couple months thing, but it's a very good question. Maybe he's interested, maybe he's a womanizer, maybe both, maybe neither, maybe something I don't know about or haven't even thought of. What's important is that I stay focused on my priorities.

[Cap3]

Hey SC,some things to think about,here.
You say,i do believe ive been 13th stepped by someone who,s intention with me was less than honorable.He was aggressive.Things got out of hand.
He wants to keep things quiet.{we are as sick as our secrets}.
He,s assuming others will give him a hard time.
His own actions are saying vloumes to you here.
Nothing changes until someone changes.
We reap what we sow...

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by Cap3

Hey SC,some things to think about,here.
You say,i do believe ive been 13th stepped by someone who,s intention with me was less than honorable.He was aggressive.Things got out of hand.
He wants to keep things quiet.{we are as sick as our secrets}.
He,s assuming others will give him a hard time.
His own actions are saying vloumes to you here.
Nothing changes until someone changes.
We reap what we sow...

Yeah, unfortunately you are right. It doesn't have to be that way, but it is what it is. I wish everyone could just be upfront and honest in their dealings with others. It would make this world a better place.

Just proves my theory (well, doesn't prove yet, but I'm betting on it and time will tell) that Time (capital T and trademarked) is not an indicator of mental health. I've known people with 30 plus years of sobriety whose lives were a mess. And I've known people with as little as a few months who are together and happy. I would hope after 10 years this person would handle things better than what I am seeing, but I'll reserve judgement until after I have a chance to discuss this with him. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Secondchances

Yeah, unfortunately you are right. It doesn't have to be that way, but it is what it is. I wish everyone could just be upfront and honest in their dealings with others. It would make this world a better place.

Just proves my theory (well, doesn't prove yet, but I'm betting on it and time will tell) that Time (capital T and trademarked) is not an indicator of mental health. I've known people with 30 plus years of sobriety whose lives were a mess. And I've known people with as little as a few months who are together and happy. I would hope after 10 years this person would handle things better than what I am seeing, but I'll reserve judgement until after I have a chance to discuss this with him. Thanks for your thoughts.

SC,
I was upfront and honest in my dealings with you but apparently I didn't say what you wanted to hear.
Don't forget. Whether someone has 30 years or a few months, what we see in others isn't always the way it is. Actions speak louder than words. You used the term "13th stepped" and you know it's not condoned in AA. So, which way is it? Are you being 13th stepped, or is this guy behaving in a way that's ok with you? Personally, if I saw him coming on to you and thought you didn't like it, I'd say something to him. If his fears of being found out are his honest concerns, he obviously knows he's doing what he shouldn't be doing. So, back to square one. You're getting what you want, otherwise you'd tell him to back off. I was always told that I should accept the AA program in it's entirety. Not just do the things that make me feel good. You said the one year practice was stupid. How about the first step? Do you think it's stupid too? There are people who are "in" AA and then there are people who kind of orbit around AA and every so often have a flaming re-entry. I call these people alconauts. Are you an alconaut?

PS...If what I say to you pisses you off, so be it. Maybe it'll get you to thinking, instead of just feeling. Your choice!

PSS....Ooops!! There's that "N" word again. Geez I hate it when people use that "N" word....

[Secondchances]

Originally Posted by Music

SC,
I was upfront and honest in my dealings with you but apparently I didn't say what you wanted to hear.

You presumed to know me. That's what I take issue with. Not everyone is cookie cutter in this deal.

Don't forget. Whether someone has 30 years or a few months, what we see in others isn't always the way it is. Actions speak louder than words. You used the term "13th stepped" and you know it's not condoned in AA. So, which way is it? Are you being 13th stepped, or is this guy behaving in a way that's ok with you? Personally, if I saw him coming on to you and thought you didn't like it, I'd say something to him. If his fears of being found out are his honest concerns, he obviously knows he's doing what he shouldn't be doing.

I think he'd like to avoid getting hassled by people, and so would I. However and more importantly is that he be honest with me so I can make the best decisions for me. If he's just some 13th stepping womanizer, I'm not interested. If he's sincere, different story. In either case, I agree with what was said here in that once the toothpaste is out of the tube you cannot put it back in. It's not like I am going anywhere, so there doesn't need to be a big rush. Having said this, I do think the one year rule is stupid, at least for me. It matters more where someone is at, their level of maturity, commitment to sobriety, etc.

So, back to square one. You're getting what you want, otherwise you'd tell him to back off. I was always told that I should accept the AA program in it's entirety. Not just do the things that make me feel good. You said the one year practice was stupid. How about the first step? Do you think it's stupid too? There are people who are "in" AA and then there are people who kind of orbit around AA and every so often have a flaming re-entry. I call these people alconauts. Are you an alconaut?

I don't tell someone to back off in the way that you probably mean it. I am more diplomatic and might say...at this point in time, it's not prudent to go there, but it won't be based on what you say or a sponsor says, unless of course you or that sponsor exercises some thought independent of a cookie cutter version of AA.

No, I don't think the first step is stupid. It's in the BB. But please tell me where in the big book the rule is that one doesn't get involved for the first year. You can't, because it's not in there. It was invented by AA Nazis along the way.

No, I am not an "alconaut." What I am is someone who gets very tired of cookie cutter, non-thinking people in the program and sometimes it gets the better of me, and I leave.

PS...If what I say to you pisses you off, so be it. Maybe it'll get you to thinking, instead of just feeling. Your choice!

Jesus, I probably do more thinking by noon than you do in a week's time.

PSS....Ooops!! There's that "N" word again. Geez I hate it when people use that "N" word....

Well, it sure fits you and it's people like you who are the reason I leave AA.

eta: Music, you're on ignore. I really don't need to deal with this crap and I don't want to get irritated to the point I leave this board.

[dax]

I think the dinner is a bad idea. I think deep down you want to see him. Otherwise -really we don't need a miss manners here and reciprocate with a dinner??? Then he will know where you live- further complications. The fact that you had to check him out, ought to be enough to mark him off your list. He knows he is doing wrong or he wouldn't feel the need to hide the 'dating' thing. This is a program based on supposedly honesty. dax