Got a question.

[michski]

Too true 2 daysmuse! Now when I want a drink I just play the "tapes" in my head of what happened the last time (s) I did it my way. Yeah, I remember the pain of the hangover but most importantly I remember how screwed up my self esteem became and the mental anguish of incomprehensible demoralization. It's a drag but the unforgettable memory of that pain is what keeps this drunk sober.

[The Jay Walker]

Dan

Alcoholics drink, Don't beat yourself up about it, the important thing is your back and want to proceed, try to learn from it, was there somethign you were leaving out? did you have a resentment?
Live and learn my friend

[Dan]

Hi Jay. Damn sweet to see you.
I'm past the beat myself up stage. It pretty much ended when the detox eased off

Yep. The more I step back from it, the more I see what I let get to me.
Big gratitude that I lived, to learn.
Thanks Jay.

[Music]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Hi Jay. Damn sweet to see you.
I'm past the beat myself up stage. It pretty much ended when the detox eased off

Yep. The more I step back from it, the more I see what I let get to me.
Big gratitude that I lived, to learn.
Thanks Jay.

I'm glad you lived to learn too Dan. A lot of folks don't learn and don't live. By the way, thanks for coming back and helping me to live longer so I can keep learning.

[Dan]

Pssst...
Music... Anymore of this, and we're gonna blow our cover.
People will start thinking we're... well, you know... sentimental and caring men

I said this to a few real close friends.
At the worst moments of withdrawal, while I was curled up in a ball, chewing on the cover of my big book, I thought of the few people in my life that still give a damn. And I slowly came to think that there are way more than I thought.
And a retired navy guy from Illinois among them.

Anyone who cares to tell me that online recovery is a farce might as well hit me over the head with a chair real good. Cuz if I get up, they're gonna hear how these unseen, unheard people, helped pull this alcoholic out of the pit for a couple days last week.

Alone, sick and shaking, waiting for the moment I could walk out the door to a church basement. Well, in the meantime, there was my Candle Girl, and she whispered to me for two days that I was going to be okay. The rest of the time, when it was quiet, with only my thoughts to listen to, there was you, Music, and the others that have seen past my uneven moods and temper, and taken the time, the precious time, to see the human being that I am, and the hopes in my heart.
Don't make me cry again, Music.

[lulu70]

Pssst...
Music... Anymore of this, and we're gonna blow our cover.
People will start thinking we're... well, you know... sentimental and caring men

Too late.....your covers were blown long ago....

Dear Dan--I know what you mean about the way in which you drank. When I think of drinking now, I don't even begin to kid myself that I could drink like a "normal" person. If I think of drinking, I think of getting drunk--mind-blowingly wasted. And I think I want to do that because I have decided I need to numb my pain. I forget ALL that I have to be grateful for, and don't CARE what drinking would do to me. I am VERY grateful that so far I have been able to pull myself out of those pits of despair before I can do any damage to myself. For now, I am trying to practice that "attitude of grattitude" on a daily basis, so that I am better prepared for those darkest of moments.

Sometimes I think I KNOW there is a relapse in my future. However, just for today, I am not going to let it happen.

You have so much to be grateful for today, Dan. I know you know that, but sometimes it helps to be reminded. Your beautiful children, your friends here, your sponsor, those 15 months of blessed sobriety, and much more, I am sure. I am not sure it is important for you to know exactly why the relapse happened. You said you already have a pretty good idea. I hope when you sort it out a bit more you can somehow share it with us, so that we may learn from it. But that, of course, is up to you.

I also know what you mean about this place. I never could have imagined I would grow to love and care for so many people who have no face and no audible voice, but I have. God bless this place and all the people who come here to help each other and themselves.

Love and hugs--

[historyteach]

(((Dan)))
SR; There's no place like it...
Watching in the background here. Sending prayers for you and so very grateful that you're back...
Shalom!

[Music]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Pssst...
Music... Anymore of this, and we're gonna blow our cover.
People will start thinking we're... well, you know... sentimental and caring men

I said this to a few real close friends.
At the worst moments of withdrawal, while I was curled up in a ball, chewing on the cover of my big book, I thought of the few people in my life that still give a damn. And I slowly came to think that there are way more than I thought.
And a retired navy guy from Illinois among them.

Anyone who cares to tell me that online recovery is a farce might as well hit me over the head with a chair real good. Cuz if I get up, they're gonna hear how these unseen, unheard people, helped pull this alcoholic out of the pit for a couple days last week.

Alone, sick and shaking, waiting for the moment I could walk out the door to a church basement. Well, in the meantime, there was my Candle Girl, and she whispered to me for two days that I was going to be okay. The rest of the time, when it was quiet, with only my thoughts to listen to, there was you, Music, and the others that have seen past my uneven moods and temper, and taken the time, the precious time, to see the human being that I am, and the hopes in my heart.
Don't make me cry again, Music.

You silver tongued devil you! Keep talking that way and I'll follow you anywhere!

[Don S]

Hi, Jay! What a pleasant surprise.
Seeing your reply reminded me of a conversation we had a year or so ago which pertains to this discussion. I finally found it in the 'Empty Tomb' thread.

However, if they believe that only their faith made recovery possible...what happens when their faith is shaken? That worries me. I've emphasized before that I believe it can be a mistake to tie your recovery to your faith.
Don S

However, if they believe that only their faith made recovery possible...what happens when their faith is shaken? That worries me.
Don S

Don
you really needn't worry yourself about this, weve been doin it for a long time and it just keeps gettin better!

Jay Walker

Gooch, as usual, gave a useful reply about how it works for him:

I've emphasized before that I believe it can be a mistake to tie your recovery to your faith. Don S

This is an interesting comment Don.

Speaking for me, myself, and I ( no trinity implied )

I tie my abstinance only to the spiritual principles of the program ( the steps) , I can stay abstinant with the first 3 steps. I know if I pick up the first one I've made the choice to surrender my freedom to make consistently healthy choices beyond that.

My recovery ( the personal growth beyond simple abstinance ) is tied to my willingness to work on the other 9 steps and to be guided by the traditions. I never really thought of it before, but I would suppose that my faith in the God of my understanding determines my desire to work those steps.

I place varying degrees of faith in the fellowship ( little in the individual members, more in the spirit of unity that exists in the fellowship as a whole)

it seems that I count on myself to remain abstinant, so that I can pursue the spiritual relationship which I believe is required to recover.
__________________
Gooch

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

I'd like to hear from anyone, including those that may have found themselves in this post- relapse time I'm in. And let's get this out of the way right now; the only acceptable reason, to my way of thinking, that I drank, is because I chose to.
Here's the question:
*Was I white knuckling it for fifteen months, and didn't admit it to myself? Or even worse, didn't know it?

Reason I ask is that my sponsor told me something yesterday that burned a hole in my skull it was so pertinent.
'Maybe you never really stopped Dan'.

It makes sense to me right now, even though I was in the process of writing the step cycle for the second time.
I'm fond of saying that humility is that thing that flies out the window as soon as you think you have it.
Now I'm thinking that I might just include spirituality in that equation.
I posted a few days ago that I thought I was experiencing a crisis of faith the last few months. Dunno.

Random thoughts of the newly sober.

I'd respectfully disagree with your sponsor.

Don S

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Don S

I'd respectfully disagree with your sponsor.

Thanks Don, I was too chickensh*t to say that.
But I agree with you 100%.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Don S

I'd respectfully disagree with your sponsor.

Thanks Don, for digging out Gooch's words on the subject. And yours as well.

As for my sponsor's comment, such as it is, sterile on a computer screen, it really isn't up for debate. From me, anyway. Had you seen his eyes, and felt his hand on your shoulder as I did, you might be inclined to offer at least the old benefit of the doubt.
I'll say only this.
Those words acted as a kick start.

Now, as far as sobriety tied to faith...
Let's see where we go this time around.

[The Jay Walker]

Don?

man I guess it's been a long time, good to see your still sober, it just keeps getting sweeter don't it? I have been so busy the last year or so, I hardly ever cruise by here any more. Just doing the deal and staying one step ahead of the next drink, the coolest thing happened this year, I was reunited with my long lost daughter a couple years ago, last month I was blessed with a baby Grand daughter, I wouldnt have been able to see that had I still been drinking. Take care, and Keep coming back.

[Pony]

Jay, as I said it is really great to see you.....blessed with a granddaughter.......awesome! Jay's a grandpa!!

(remember I have four grandchildren..lol)


This has been a great thread to read.....thank you!

[Don S]

Originally Posted by The Jay Walker

Don?

man I guess it's been a long time, good to see your still sober, it just keeps getting sweeter don't it?.

There isn't anything about my present life -- good, bad, or in between -- that I would trade for a drink.

Cruise by every so often, ok? and thanks for the update!

Don S

[Paulie]

(((Jay))) wow that is awesome!! Yep, a gift of sobriety.

[Millwallj]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Thanks Don, for digging out Gooch's words on the subject. And yours as well.

As for my sponsor's comment, such as it is, sterile on a computer screen, it really isn't up for debate. From me, anyway. Had you seen his eyes, and felt his hand on your shoulder as I did, you might be inclined to offer at least the old benefit of the doubt.
I'll say only this.
Those words acted as a kick start.

Now, as far as sobriety tied to faith...
Let's see where we go this time around.

Brilliantly and movingly executed the reason why I believe "internet recovery" just ain't all that.

No disrespect the admins.