Got a question.

[2dayzmuse]

Life hasn't been rosey. I struggle with daily stresses as we all do. During this time, not once have I considered drinking as an escape or a solution. I'm convinced that it won't help matters, it will only worsen them. I'm grateful for
this insight and can't really explain why I get it now when I would have grabbed a drink in a second a year ago.

Thank Goodness for the daily reprieve. I've felt abandoned by my faith as well, but the fear of drinking kept get me going through the motions of my program. Maybe it has something to do with relapse and the amount of fear it leaves behind. I don't know? My last relapse still scares the hell out of me when I think about it. Fear. Perhaps that is what it takes to get and keep us sober. The utter fear of a drinking scenario and its negative possibilities makes me more aware of my choices and making the right ones. The choice to drink will only bring me pain. Just a thought that crossed my mind. For me, fear is a driving force that helps keep me sober today.

The progression of the disease always sticks out in my mind. I recognize myself and how much further down I go with the obsession when I would drink. If I were to drink again, I know I would get caught up in the fury of my addiction and would allow it to kill me. That is its nature. I am powerless over it's control. I have proven that over and over again.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by 2dayzmuse

The choice to drink will only bring me pain.

Inasmuch as I'm an alcoholic, then there are no truer words. So what did I miss? Not just me, but any of us who go out...
I'm inclined to think that my first and third steps were lacking completeness and rigorous honesty.
Seems to fit in well with the undeniable stubborness that is part of my character.

So what did I miss?

Originally Posted by Gooch

First they have to believe they have it.

Now I'm thinkin'...

[Cathy31]

Dan

From someone who thought step 1 would be a piece of cake...sure, I KNOW I am powerless over alcohol, I could and did list the ways that it had kicked my b*tt - all those times I physically used to PRAY before a big important night - just not to get too drunk!! (this was before I realised I was an alcoholic)

Once I had that realisation I thought, piece of cake, I have a HP totally and I know I am powerless...for me, though, I THINK what might have been going wrong (few months/weeks sobriety - totally delighted with self, life great, lots of successes personally and professionally, but then complacency/arrogance, and I would binge drink 1 night over or twice over a 2 week period, then back to a few weeks/months sobriety)

You don't need to tell me that's insane Sure, I know!!

I'm starting to think that even though back in Dec when I reached out to AA my active alcoholism was at its worst...well, things have improved so much (yes, totally insane) that I am thinking that my problem was/is that my life was not UNMANAGEABLE enough.

Also, despite evidence to the contrary I obviously DON'T think that I am powerless over alcohol because as Faeryqueen said why would I do it. I have not to date felt abandoned by my HP...I just know each time I drank was not to become a drunken mess, but to DRINK NORMALLY - which i can't and never will be able to do.

But each 'SLIP' and I hate to call it that implying it was not my fault, I have planned each 'drunk' but with the intention of NOT overdoing it...I have been successful at times, and I have been horribly UNSUCCESSFUL at times.

What I am trying to say in a long winded way (and I'm not in any way comparing your amazing success of 15 months and growth through the steps with my attempts, I know I am only that outset of this journey) is this ...

I don't have the first step done thoroughly (at all!!!) Because by virtue of the fact that I go out and have a drink thinking I can handle it...means that I DON'T believe I am powerless (which I know intellectually that I am but somewhere I am not convinced) and also I don't feel my life is unmanageable - which it isn't!!! not now!! cause I am sober 90% of the time!!! Ha! Talk about cunning, baffling powerful!

You once very wisely said to me that it's probably unfortunately going to take a real terrible blow to myself and/or loved one/stranger before I give in...I hope not, Dan. At the moment I am doing well back to almost 30 days, but I got to keep it in the day and work HARD at that step 1 and pray, pray, pray.

As Wendy (wantaneeda) said amazingly on another thread recently (look it up if you have not seen it) to paraphrase - ask God! We all know He will deliver, I suppose that can be frightening for some of us...? I know it is for me.

Thanks for the thread, and again welcome back!!!

Cathy31
x

[Dan]

I was talking with another addict the other night...
He says: 'What happened?'
I say: 'I relapsed, and it hurt like hell for about three days after'.
He says: 'We're done when we're done'.

I just wasn't done.
My responsibility is to do something different this time.

Remember Cathy, when I said there is do, or do not.
I don't know, but I truly feel that beating myself to a pulp last week is helping me understand the severity and seriousness of that simple message a little better now.
And I'm grateful for that.
Just for today

[Cathy31]

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...2&page=1&pp=20

Link to Wendy's post, also one of the things was "God, take charge" , not "ask God", !

[Cathy31]

Dan
What you said to me about do or not do - I think the way you put it was - don't try, do! Was hugely beneficial for me I was so sick of saying I'll try this and I'll try that...in the past month I DO and for today I am so happy with doing and not trying!
Love
Cathy31
x

[FaeryQueen]

So what did I miss?

Dan,
Did you miss step one? Did you really, truly ever know that you were/are powerless? Have you internalized that fact in your very bone marrow? Do you know (not believe) that you are truly, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, POWERLESS over alcohol?
I accept the fact that I live in Southeast, TX and I am powerless over a hurricane coming off the Gulf. I am not going to go stand on the beach with my umbrella.....I would perish.
Today, I am just as certain that letting up on my spiritual program of action will lead to being taken by a drink...I AM THAT POWERLESS OVER THE STUFF. Completely null and void of any defense without my HP. I lose my HP connection for long enough...the obsession returns, I drink, I die. I like being alive these days.
Tanya

[Dan]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

Did you really, truly ever know that you were/are powerless?

Yeah, I did/do. I still chose to try again. And by try, I don't mean try to drink as a non alcoholic. I mean try to drink like I always did in the past, without the physical and spiritual consequences. I'm insane, remember?

I'm fairly sure I've written in this thread that I lost my faith, my relationship, my communication, call it whatever floats your boat, with my higher power.

So, just as I agreed with you before, I agree with you now...

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

Completely null and void of any defense without my HP.

Or is it that losing contact/faith/communication with HP means I never did step one?

[Paulie]

IMO a person can question the past all day long, remember the defination of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So now, you do different. I would never question anyones program, what I mean is now, maybe the changes you make include praying more, more meetings, starting over at step 1...whatever the 'different is'. We are all insane, okay I am anyway LOL, but the level of insanity changes depending on my program

Make sense?

[FaeryQueen]

Or is it that losing contact/faith/communication with HP means I never did step one?

I guess that is what I am getting at. If you had internalized step one...would you have let your connection go? If you really knew that without the sunlight of the spirit you would whither and die in the cold...would you take that chance? My HP doesn't go on vacation and leave me stranded! I get caught up in my little ego and block myself....however, now I can feel when I am slipping and I know I cannot survive without that connection....without being tuned in...because I really am powerless...so I just don't let it happen any more! Plus life is just a hell of alot better when I'm connected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Paulie

So now, you do different. ...
Make sense?

That's the plan, Stan!
Thanks Paulie.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

I guess that is what I am getting at.

That's what I thought

[FaeryQueen]

Thanks for being patient with me Dan. Progress not perfection....right? I am not questioning your program...uhhh or maybe I am . Since you think you have done step one and you also think you might be able to drink like a normal person.
I have loved your posts since day one on this forum. You turned a light on for me yesterday....thanks

[Evanna]

I know you will have seen it before Dan but the 'Mistaken beliefs about relapse' posted by Time2Surrender are always worth another read. Mistaken belief no. 8 really hit home for me;
http://s8.invisionfree.com/HotRods_a...p?showtopic=19

[Paulie]

IMHO, it is always good to continue to do the steps. Doing them to the best of our ability each time. As we grow in our recovery and in life in general things changs and we learn more. I am doing them again, and I am learning more about myself than I ever have before, now when answering the questions it is not just about my using, it is about how I live my life and practice recovery everyday in my life.

Sounds like a GREAT plan Stan....I mean Dan

[Music]

Step 1-I'm powerless over alcohol!
Steps 2-12 give me the tools I need to deal with the alcohol-ism, so that I'm not powerless over the alcoholism!

However....
"It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee, Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.'

[Dan]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

Since you think you have done step one and you also think you might be able to drink like a normal person.

Read again. That's not what I said at all

And by try, I don't mean try to drink as a non alcoholic. I mean try to drink like I always did in the past, without the physical and spiritual consequences. I'm insane, remember?

[FaeryQueen]

And by try, I don't mean try to drink as a non alcoholic. I mean try to drink like I always did in the past, without the physical and spiritual consequences. I'm insane, remember?

Dan,
Isn't that a non-alcoholic? Someone that can drink without spiritual, mental, physical consequences......?

Someone who is deathly allergic to shellfish doesn't go out and say "Hey, I think I will eat lobster today and see if I can do it without going into anaphylactic shock and dying a slow painful death of suffocation from a swollen trachea." Do they? I don't know...I'm not allergic to shellfish.

Is there a doctor in the house?
We need a straight jacket over here.

[Dan]

I suppose it is Faery. But I was operating, I think, from the premise that I knew what I was getting into, decided to proceed anyway, awaiting whatever fate would come my way. At least I think that more or less describes it in a nutshell...

It's the Footprints in the Sand thing...
'xcept I wanted to know when I wanted to know.
You know?

[FaeryQueen]

awaiting whatever fate would come my way

I guess that is why you are "Dangerous Dan"!!!

It's the Footprints in the Sand thing...
'xcept I wanted to know when I wanted to know.
You know?

I know. It takes what it takes. :slap:

[Jalyn]

Wow. Great thread of advise and encouragement found here.

So glad to see you back ((((Dan))))

I can say nothing else that has not already been said. I am still under a year, found it did get easier every day, having some days filled with "wishful thinking" and having to deal with stress and anxiety without my drink(s) has all been a journey.

You continue to help and inspire me like you did from the start. Even now with this, it comes at a time that will help me not forget where I came from.

You have had what? 15 months sober so hundreds upon hundreds of 24 hours of sobriety. You had a reminder that you still can't drink. It reminds us all.

Hugs to you, Jalyn

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Any time I pop a top on a can all my will power goes out the window. Once I pop I can't stop.


A guy that was starting AA came to a meeting last night right out of detox and he's having to humble hiself and get another 24 hour chip. He's crying my eyes are getting wet.

I'll be damned if, I want to be powerless again.

We might b powerless but, we're not hopeless.

The world is my playground now. Thanks to AA

[Lunachic]

Dan...THE MAN!! I dunno why you drank...I'm only 5 months into this life so can't give ya' much advice..

Honestly? Get over it!! Throw it to the Wind!! Just don't pick up...run to the hills if you even get close!!

I have cried, held a beer in my hand for over 8 hrs. cryin' my eyes out, finally fell asleep! WHITE FISTED IT, kicked, screamed..hell, I even was tempted to drink the mouth wash. my gawd, it's amazin' eh??

I really just want to tell you how much I enjoy & learn from your post's, even thru this "deal" you are going through. Just be careful of all that "stinkin' thinkin'" It's bad for your health!!

Much love my Friend, Lynda

[FaeryQueen]

Heh...I *am* allergic to shellfish (almost died of anaphylactic shock on my 21st birthday). And you know what...there have been times I've actually eaten (in small quantities) shellfish, thinking just what you wrote!

But of course, I am an alcoholic/addict, and ergo, insane :-)

lib

Yup,
lol...sounds like your one of us Claymama <!-- / message -->

[2dayzmuse]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

It's the Footprints in the Sand thing...
'xcept I wanted to know when I wanted to know.
You know?

I think that is it exactly. We dip our toe in the water one more time to see if it is still cold. We know it is, but do it anyway, again and again then say burr it's cold. That sort of thing...

I love the we're done when we're done statement. I've found that to be true. You mentioned the physical pain that you had for days after you drank. Of course there is the mental and emotional pain as well. I have to wonder if that will stick in your mind if you ever were to toy with the drinking notion again. I know my relapse memory is a detterent for me. I know I keep repeating myself, but the nightmare is etched in my brain. I can't, (won't, hope) go through that again. Mentally, emotionally or physically. It isn't worth it. Maybe we just have to hurt bad enough to finally get it.

So you asked what did I miss? Or...what did I forget? Maybe the reality of the pain? I don't need to ask if it still hurts. I already know the answer to that. Yes, we are stubborn and often insist on learning the hard way. Speaking for myself of course. I have faith in you...live and learn. I know you learned a hard lesson this time around. I bet it won't be easily forgotten.