Got a question.

[Music]

AA provides me with an alternative. It's my "choice" whether or not to use it.

[Paulie]

You said that so much easier than I did LOL.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Paulie

You said that so much easier than I did LOL.

I got lucky and kept it simple. It was purely unintentional...

[FaeryQueen]

okay okay. I know we have a choice to work our program or not. To avoid taking Vigorous Action via the Steps, for me, is to drink and die....I know this now.
But at the point we pick up, we are probably very sick and the drink takes us.
If we are "powerless" over something....how can we choose it? Isn't it something we have "no power" over?

[Music]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

okay okay. I know we have a choice to work our program or not. To avoid taking Vigorous Action via the Steps, for me, is to drink and die....I know this now.
But at the point we pick up, we are probably very sick and the drink takes us.
If we are "powerless" over something....how can we choose it? Isn't it something we have "no power" over?

The way I read the first step, I interpret it to say that I'm powerless over "alcohol." Not alcoholism!! When I made the choice to come to AA and decided to go to meetins, decided to get a sponsor, and decided to work the steps, to say that all of a sudden one day I just found myself sitting in a bar drinking with absolutely no warning is ludicrous. There has to be a period of time leading up to sitting in the bar and it's after I take that "first drink" that I become powerless. I believe that before I take that first drink, I will have decided the steps aren't worth working, my sponsor isn't worth calling, and I've quit going to meetings and being honest with the people there about how I'm thinking. That IMO will surely lead, in time, to that first drink, which after consuming, I'll become powerless over the next....eventually. There seem to me to be a lot of choices I've made in the process. Now, that isn't to say that those decisions can't be made in 5 minutes, or maybe 5 weeks or months, but it's logical to me that the process has to happen before I take that first drink. Until the booze touches my lips, there's time to decide not to drink.

[FaeryQueen]

Okay...maybe this is a matter of semantics...because what you are saying makes sense to me. Maybe just another paradox of AA. I do know that when I choose to stop taking all those little actions you mention...I get sick. I call it getting sick because that is what it feels like. It is very uncomfortable and if I let it go on I will medicate with booze, so I catch it as soon as I can.....or someone else does. When I relapsed, I truly felt I was insane with the obsession to drink. I felt possessed by the need to drink...it was all I could think about. I was very sick...and felt I was going to drink or kill myself because the pain was too much. My disease had grown so strong while I was complacent, that I truly thought those were my only choices...drink or take my life.
So, I chose to let up on my program....which led to picking up......

[doorknob]

Hey Dan,

I couldn't say what caused you to pull the !@#% it switch, but you are the only one who can judge the quality of your sobriety. You know I don't believe in the spiritual stuff, so I can't comment on that aspect, but from reading your posts all that time, you seemed to be quite comfortable with yourself and with being sober. The way you communicate with people so non judgementally even in a heated debate is admirable. I'm sure you'll be back to your old/new self in no time! Glad you're back bro!

Doorknob

[Music]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

When I relapsed, I truly felt I was insane with the obsession to drink. I felt possessed by the need to drink...it was all I could think about. I was very sick...and felt I was going to drink or kill myself because the pain was too much. My disease had grown so strong while I was complacent, that I truly thought those were my only choices...drink or take my life.
So, I chose to let up on my program....which led to picking up......

Thanks for sharing that Faery. This is not the first time I've heard those same words. I do the same thing today that I did when I first came to AA. I don't go to as many meetings, but everything else is the same. That's why I've never had to find out first hand, whether what you've said is true or not. I'll take your word for it. Thanks again.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

I don't think you "chose" to drink again.

Oh yes I did. I could just as easily chosen to ride out the 24. But I see and understand your thinking, I think. I certainly was sicker, through a combination of life situations and way too much time spent inside my head.
Regardless, the only person that twisted my arm to get wasted is me.

I love this thread. I love how we're all pitching in our experience. It's moving.
And I thank you all for being here.

Doorknob, I just got a eureka moment from your post, sort of
I stopped being comfortable. And instead of acting inward, where the problem was, I acted out.

[Music]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Hey Dan,You know I don't believe in the spiritual stuff,
Doorknob

Hey knob, can we talk. Don't sweat the spiritual stuff. That's not what it's all about. Finding a power greater than one's self is what it's about. How about NATURE? Look around. Have you ever stood on the deck of a ship during a hurricane? Have you ever seen a volcanic eruption or felt an earthquake? These are all powers greater than anyone, and it's all nature. Use good old Mother Nature as an HP. Simple to me!

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Music

Hey knob

Freakin' Music

[FaeryQueen]

I stopped being comfortable. And instead of acting inward, where the problem was, I acted out.

Can you say lightbulb moment? I am soooo feelin it.


"No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others."

So Dan, I am sure that your experience will help someone else....maybe it already has.....This is the blood and guts of AA. I love it that we are such a diverse group of brilliant individuals.

This is not the first time I've heard those same words.

Wheeeeew!
Thanks Music.

[doorknob]

Hey Music,

I do think that nature is awesome and powerful. I love the forest and the mountains and the rivers. That's why I live in the rural area I do. But, I don't believe that nature is going to change my relationship with alcohol or any other of my problems, except for that fact that maybe stopping to appreciate it a little more often may be good for my mental health. I believe in the power, but I don't believe in the intervention.

Doorknob

[Paulie]

GREAT thread.

[NoMoBeer]

Sorry, just have to chime in and say I love all of you! :hugehug (whether you like it or not!)...

Ken

[FaeryQueen]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by FaeryQueen
I don't think you "chose" to drink again.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan
Oh yes I did. I could just as easily chosen to ride out the 24.

Okay Dan,
Isn't that a case for insanity? Isn't insanity a sort of sickness? Why would you choose to ingest a substance that has already proven to be deadly to those of us who are bodily and mentally different from our fellows? Why would you choose to put alcohol in your body knowing about the allergy and the phenomenom of craving? Either you were/are insane or you never accepted that you were powerless in the first place.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

Okay Dan,
Isn't that a case for insanity? Isn't insanity a sort of sickness? Why would you choose to ingest a substance that has already proven to be deadly to those of us who are bodily and mentally different from our fellows? Why would you choose to put alcohol in your body knowing about the allergy and the phenomenom of craving? Either you were/are insane or you never accepted that you were powerless in the first place.

Cuz I lost touch with my HP. End of story, for me anyway. I posted in another thread a few days ago that I felt abandoned, spiritualy lacking, for a few months. I went through a period of why did you abandon me, you arsewipe...

All the while, it was I who was slowly abandoning him/it.

Insanity?
Indubitably. I've carried the proper credentials for that condition for a long time

[Music]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Hey Music,

I do think that nature is awesome and powerful. I love the forest and the mountains and the rivers. That's why I live in the rural area I do. But, I don't believe that nature is going to change my relationship with alcohol or any other of my problems, except for that fact that maybe stopping to appreciate it a little more often may be good for my mental health. I believe in the power, but I don't believe in the intervention.

Doorknob

Ok knob, let's take it form there. I call nature, God, and visa versa. I don't "know" for sure, but I can't explain it any other way. I'm basically pretty simple minded so I just choose to settle with that and leave it alone. When I try to figure it out any further than that, I get a headache... If I want to look at God, I just look around, and when I look around, I see God. Of course, the name applied is optional.

[Anna]

Dan I think you said it all when you felt abandoned by your HP. I think we all feel that way sometimes, I know I do. And, it's so hard to remember at a time like that, that it is I who am doing the abandoning.

Love, Anna

[KarenOskie]

I think the reason I relapsed a year and a half or so ago (I've got 38 days back) was that I lost focus on my sobriety by being in a difficult relationship and not ending it though I really wanted and needed to, and not 'practicing the principals' during those last few months. I just got way off in left field, and had so much going on, and lost my connection with my Higher Power, sponsor, AA, and myself. I don't think that means I wasn't having some really good recovery during my couple of years sober. I look back and know that I was. I just hope I can get back to that point again, and then surpass it, and I hope you can, too.
I know that for me now, I am having to keep my main focus on recovery. I have to carry my 'program' into my whole life and live it 24 hours a day. I suspect it will be this way for more than a couple of years, though I'm sure it will get easier and with more time it will become a way of life and seem easy and natural. I know that because of the people I know that haven't relapsed in many, many years. God bless them, they give me so much hope.

[lulu70]

So much of my HP is other people, and I find that when I am feeling abandoned, what is actually happening is that I have jumped right on that big ole pity pot and I am convinced that nobody likes me, everybody hates me, and I'm gonna go eat some worms. So far, I have been able to counteract those feelings with some strong prayers of gratitude. Then I remember that most people have way more stuff going on in their lives to waste time hating me, and that I am being ridiculous, because usually people actually like me......"they really like me!!"

I know I am being a little bit silly, but it is definitely true that when I forget to be grateful for all the wonderful things I have (and we all have wonderful things to be grateful for), that is when I feel disconnected from my HP.

Hugs to you all--

[Millwallj]

Originally Posted by Music

Hey knob, can we talk. Don't sweat the spiritual stuff. That's not what it's all about. Finding a power greater than one's self is what it's about. How about NATURE? Look around. Have you ever stood on the deck of a ship during a hurricane? Have you ever seen a volcanic eruption or felt an earthquake? These are all powers greater than anyone, and it's all nature. Use good old Mother Nature as an HP. Simple to me!

Exactly. Door knob - the main tennant of the programme is to explore the world outside of ourselves and take it in Instead of living in our own neurosis (hey, and you know what OCD does). its not like we all jump in the programme, turn our life over to HP and then be religious until we die. Its an adventure - sometimes I belive in HP, sometimes I dont. It would be impossible to have a constant belief (expecially where I have come from). AA gives you time and space to get in touch with something. Some people choose a HP out of utter desperation, others its sometimes a long slow intellectual process. everyone is different. My HP is nature. The order of things. The processes of the world and nature that I dont know about. Its the space beyond the box. Its questions I can never answer. Its a father figure. ITs not a RELIGIOUS GOD. Its more like a big pal of mine. Someone I would have drank with and set the world to right. It is a prescence like being comftable with a close pal.

hope that helps.

[Millwallj]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Hey Music,

I do think that nature is awesome and powerful. I love the forest and the mountains and the rivers. That's why I live in the rural area I do. But, I don't believe that nature is going to change my relationship with alcohol or any other of my problems, except for that fact that maybe stopping to appreciate it a little more often may be good for my mental health. I believe in the power, but I don't believe in the intervention.

Doorknob

Right there pal you, for me, have coined the programme. God is not up there to solve alcholics. That is the essence of AA. What you have said here: "except for that fact that maybe stopping to appreciate it a little more often may be good for my mental health"

[Wilky]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Oh yes I did. I could just as easily chosen to ride out the 24. But I see and understand your thinking, I think. I certainly was sicker, through a combination of life situations and way too much time spent inside my head.
Regardless, the only person that twisted my arm to get wasted is me.

Let's see...

Alcohol is a highly rectified spirit.
"The tyrant alcohol weilded a double edge sword over us..."
"If there was a Devil, he seemed the Boss Universal..."
"As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm..."
Obsession is defined as the act of an evil spirit in besetting a person.

Yep, the problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind rather than his body. You have proven this.

You did it. You are in control. Congrats.

Wilky

[Gooch]

Nobody chooses to have cancer or diabetes. They can choose what they do about treating it.

First they have to believe they have it.