Alcoholic Death

[EdLova]

what does an alcoholic death look like for you today?

[Millwallj]

Originally Posted by EdLova

what does an alcoholic death look like for you today?

PANIC, PANIC - OHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOO! IT LOOKS HORRIBLE, MUST GO OUT AND START PREACHING THE MESSAGE.

no no no - I am at work, enjoying myself, relaxing.

tonight I will pop to a meeting and listen to people.

threats bounce of me like rain.

[Chy]

My grandmother died an alcoholic death last summer. I know EXACTLY what it looks like, how about you ED, come now, how about you share!

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Looks like brain matter splattered off the ceiling. That's what it looks like to me

[Dan]

If you really want to know Ed, I've got some first hand info for you.
Send me a PM and I'll gladly share.

[Cap3]

An alcoholic death?Looks like i did when i first came to the rooms of both AA and al-anon.I wasn't dead phyically.I was still breathing...Dead woman walking..But all that was inside of me was dead.It really is by God,s Grace that i came to recovery rooms,and started to heal,and to come alive.

[2dayzmuse]

I haven't really thought about it yet today. Haven't had my morning coffee yet. Maybe I'll have a quick ponder on my drive to work then think of something a little more cheerful to begin my day. The future looks bright, but I know I'm always just one drink away from losing it all.

[Kahlia]

Originally Posted by EdLova

what does an alcoholic death look like for you today?

What a wonderful subject to start the morning with, ED.....it looks like my FATHER lying in his coffin in the funeral home after his MASSIVE heart attack. He had so much damage from drinking, it showed up as scar tissue in his autopsy.....wonder what that looks like????? ED, do you have anything to add???? Would love to hear your take on this subject....I have already seen it first hand....not really pretty.....does not smell like a rose either.....Kahlia

[lulu70]

I'm not even sure what to say. Why would you ask such a question, Ed? Why not ask what a recovering alcoholic LIFE looks like?

[Paulie]

Originally Posted by lulu70

I'm not even sure what to say. Why would you ask such a question, Ed? Why not ask what a recovering alcoholic LIFE looks like?

[EdLova]

Originally Posted by lulu70

I'm not even sure what to say. Why would you ask such a question, Ed? Why not ask what a recovering alcoholic LIFE looks like?

Because the newcomer who comes in and who hasn't been doing very well at dying an alcoholic death won't know the difference..

[one of]

Hi Ed,

It depends upon the alcoholic. I'm a 70 year old alcoholic whose been sober in AA for nearly 30 years. My death looks just fine to me. As I heard the Dahli Llama state on Public TV a few years ago, "Well when we die, either something happens or nothing happens. If nothing happens, there's certainly nothing to worry about there [you'll never even know you've died]. If something happens, then you might as well be prepared for it, and that's what Buddhism will prepare you for." And that is also what AA will prepare you for.

Until I got sober and worked (actually, *surrendered to*) the 12 step AA program, my ego was so large that the thought of "nothing happening" when I died was impossible to even consider. But across the years, as my insides get closer and closer to actually knowing that, "I am not better than, I am not worse than, I am simply one of what it means to be a human being, the difference between the possibilities of my continued existence beyond death or the end of my existence at death has lost its significance.

If life has ultimate meaning, as it seems to have to me, then I see clearly what that ultimate meaning must be. We are all growing along spiritual lines, Ed. And physical existence is the garden we are growing in. The growth is of course from egoism towards humility. One need only to have had children of one's own to know that everyone doesn't come into the world with the same sized ego. Some are large making the child nearly unmanageable, while others are small allowing for an imminently manageable child ready and willing to take direction.

Thus, Ed, it does seem to me that the Eastern Philosophy of reincarnation makes very good sense and is, in fact, finding its way more and more into the thinking of open minded Christians, Jews, and probably Muslims. {Albeit, I'm sure it would be difficult for the Muslim men to give up looking forward to that mile-long tent with all those lovely virgins within it (unless they were willing to see through the surface pleasure into the depth of misery such a situation would ultimately descend were it to last for eternity - i.e. boooooooring)}. And if reincarnation is in fact the way ultimate meaning to existence works, then the movement from egoism towards humility within each human continues to work until there emerges a human of pure humility. During the process, Ed, the human will amass much wisdom as well as knowledge of things. As the human approaches that point of pure humility it will be living near absolute truth. Being nearly egoless will mean that ego-neediness will have practically disappeared. And thus there will be the situation where one is almost continuously serving the needs of others for the single reason that that is what one most wants to do with one's time.

Simply put, Ed, as one is moved by life's experiences from egoism towards humility, one's capacity to love increases and the degree to which one is all wrapped up in self decreases. Since, whether one wants to grow along spiritual lines or not, one grows along spiritual lines, it becomes only a matter of whether one wants to become willing to grow along spiritual lines, or whether one wants to fight the inevitable growth throughout one's earthly existence. If one wants to surrender to the growing, life is a piece of cake. If one wants to fight the growing, the mental anguish involved in fighting *truth* becomes so great that mental anguish pain killers become a must.

And that brings us to the 'active alcoholic.' The active alcoholic's life is a life wrapped up in self, with that self usually seeing itself as a tragic figure, filled with self-pity and lonely to the point of despair because nobody understands. It is, to misuse Shakespeare, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." If the active alcoholic is sufficiently miserable over the harm he/she causes others, then, of course, the day will come when the combination of the misery caused by fighting spiritual growth and the misery caused by breaking the Golden Rule will finally drive one to readily admit that his/her way of getting through life is simply not working and he/she will then be ready to seek a way that does work. If that doesn't happen in time, Ed, and the active alcoholic dies, I personally would say that both the world and the active alcoholic are better off than they were. If you'd like to amplify your question a bit, I'd be glad to amplify my answer even further Blessings - one of

[Dan]

What a blessing to read that, one of.
Thank you.

[Cathy31]

One of
Wonderful post, Thank you
Cathy31
x

[lulu70]

Dear One of--I agree with Dan and Carol. Wonderful post!!! I am in the process of reading "One Breath at a Time," and a lot of what you said really hit home to me. Thanks for sharing.

Hugs--

[Cathy31]

Hi Lulu!
It's Cathy! Not Carol! !
Cathy31
x

[lulu70]

Ooops! Sorry!!
I killed all my name-remembering brain-cells!!

[EdLova]

Originally Posted by one of

Hi Ed,

It depends upon the alcoholic. I'm a 70 year old alcoholic whose been sober in AA for nearly 30 years. My death looks just fine to me. As I heard the Dahli Llama state on Public TV a few years ago, "Well when we die, either something happens or nothing happens. If nothing happens, there's certainly nothing to worry about there [you'll never even know you've died]. If something happens, then you might as well be prepared for it, and that's what Buddhism will prepare you for." And that is also what AA will prepare you for.

Until I got sober and worked (actually, *surrendered to*) the 12 step AA program, my ego was so large that the thought of "nothing happening" when I died was impossible to even consider. But across the years, as my insides get closer and closer to actually knowing that, "I am not better than, I am not worse than, I am simply one of what it means to be a human being, the difference between the possibilities of my continued existence beyond death or the end of my existence at death has lost its significance.

If life has ultimate meaning, as it seems to have to me, then I see clearly what that ultimate meaning must be. We are all growing along spiritual lines, Ed. And physical existence is the garden we are growing in. The growth is of course from egoism towards humility. One need only to have had children of one's own to know that everyone doesn't come into the world with the same sized ego. Some are large making the child nearly unmanageable, while others are small allowing for an imminently manageable child ready and willing to take direction.

Thus, Ed, it does seem to me that the Eastern Philosophy of reincarnation makes very good sense and is, in fact, finding its way more and more into the thinking of open minded Christians, Jews, and probably Muslims. {Albeit, I'm sure it would be difficult for the Muslim men to give up looking forward to that mile-long tent with all those lovely virgins within it (unless they were willing to see through the surface pleasure into the depth of misery such a situation would ultimately descend were it to last for eternity - i.e. boooooooring)}. And if reincarnation is in fact the way ultimate meaning to existence works, then the movement from egoism towards humility within each human continues to work until there emerges a human of pure humility. During the process, Ed, the human will amass much wisdom as well as knowledge of things. As the human approaches that point of pure humility it will be living near absolute truth. Being nearly egoless will mean that ego-neediness will have practically disappeared. And thus there will be the situation where one is almost continuously serving the needs of others for the single reason that that is what one most wants to do with one's time.

Simply put, Ed, as one is moved by life's experiences from egoism towards humility, one's capacity to love increases and the degree to which one is all wrapped up in self decreases. Since, whether one wants to grow along spiritual lines or not, one grows along spiritual lines, it becomes only a matter of whether one wants to become willing to grow along spiritual lines, or whether one wants to fight the inevitable growth throughout one's earthly existence. If one wants to surrender to the growing, life is a piece of cake. If one wants to fight the growing, the mental anguish involved in fighting *truth* becomes so great that mental anguish pain killers become a must.

And that brings us to the 'active alcoholic.' The active alcoholic's life is a life wrapped up in self, with that self usually seeing itself as a tragic figure, filled with self-pity and lonely to the point of despair because nobody understands. It is, to misuse Shakespeare, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." If the active alcoholic is sufficiently miserable over the harm he/she causes others, then, of course, the day will come when the combination of the misery caused by fighting spiritual growth and the misery caused by breaking the Golden Rule will finally drive one to readily admit that his/her way of getting through life is simply not working and he/she will then be ready to seek a way that does work. If that doesn't happen in time, Ed, and the active alcoholic dies, I personally would say that both the world and the active alcoholic are better off than they were. If you'd like to amplify your question a bit, I'd be glad to amplify my answer even further Blessings - one of

how do you know what you don't know?

[findinganewme]

OH DEAR GOD!

I'm a newcomer ....

and ... well ... don't quite know what to say .... except ...

If your intent was to scare the crap out of me .... you have succeeded.

For that I THANK YOU!

.... as tears fill my eyes!

[Andy F]

One of the attractions of drinking was that unconsciously I perceived it as a method of avoiding, procrastinating upon uncomfortable feelings.

One of the reasons I had disproportionate uncomfortable feelings is that my self-esteem was in the hands of others. I did not know how to generate self-esteem from myself. So because I only felt ok if you respected or liked me, then I unconsciously sought to behave in a manner which would gain the necessary approval from others. Confused, I used to try to be the bravest fighter, best lover, most admirable everything.

When I got sober of course I now had to have the best sobriety,truest definition of God, most credible sponser. Because I needed your approval to build my self-esteem.

Welcome to early sobriety Edlova.

[one of]

Hi Ed,

If you read the first sentence in the 3rd paragraph of what I wrote, you will see that it is only "how it seems to me." As to the growing, I've grown and know what the growth consists of. Fourteen years after the first Alkies got sober, they also had grown and knew what the growth consisted of. That's why, in the first sentence of step 5 (12&12) we are told what the steps do. On the first page of step 7, (12&12) we read why we need to let it happen. Blessings - one of

P.S. Thanks for the nice words from those who enjoyed the post. More Blessings - C

[Phinneas]

Originally Posted by one of

We are all growing along spiritual lines, Ed. And physical existence is the garden we are growing in. The growth is of course from egoism towards humility.

Beautiful words that resonate with MY truth.

Oh... and alcoholic death or any death doesn't scare me. Living in the hell of my active addiction does.



phinny

[findinganewme]

Oh... and alcoholic death or any death doesn't scare me. Living in the hell of my active addiction does.


You made me feel better. THANK YOU!

When you put it like that .... you're right .... I should have been scared long ago ..... I should have wanted OUT of that hell long ago. I guess I'm grateful I have lived to be able to see that and see the dangerous road I *WAS* on!

[mackcat]

heh ed
thanks for posting so