ALCOHOL is a DRUG !!

[Tricky]

THANKYOU for the replys to . . . wHAT IF I DONT FIT IN. .

i am an addict, "alcohol is a drug and we "CANNOT" be confused about this. .

when i share i dont say im an alcoholic- addict, simply because of this. . . the new commer[ and rememeber we were all one once] could sit next to you and think that they are two differant things, how many addicts relapse on alcohol?
how many alcoholics relapse on puff or some other drug ?
when will people in the rooms see it as the same?
ive ben to lots of differant meetings and the result is always the same. . some people think i shouldnt be there, no matter how much i try to open up to them or let them in they push me away, this is life and death stuff for me, my life my death.
so far ive had my anonimity broken at N.A, ive been laughed at for relapseing,
and when i went back out there NOT ONE person bothered to ring me, including my so-called sponcer and my so-called fellowship friends, i know im angry but this doesnt stop me wanting to be clean [of all mind altering substances]. i go, i try, im pushed away, WE ARE THE SAME our experiences might be differant but our cravings and addiction are the same.

so if im at your meeting and i say im an ADDICT im really saying i need HELP!! PLEASE dont look down on me or even push me away really im just like you except that my drug of choice was differant. . . peace to each and evey one of you. . . x

[jlo34]

Tricky,
Recovery IS a life and death situation.
"It's none of my business what other people think about me".
Do what's right. If you feel more comfortable with AA, then go. I am not a perse drug addict - I certainly know I have the ability to become one though! I am an alcoholic and have endured all sorts of stuff...my favorite was the "cross-addicted" and "poly-addicted" phase!!! Not trying to make fun. Seriously, in our area, it's very rare to introduce yourself as simply an alcoholic. NA is not very strong in our area either. Back a number of years ago there was a huge conflict between a number of people that were in both fellowships...but that has smoothed over. What's the answer...if you're an addict, you're an addict. If you want to "fit in" say you're an alcoholic. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire not to drink. As long as you have that desire, you are welcome at meetings. To thine own self be true. Work the steps, get the sponsor and work with the sponsor. Pray/meditate. The rest will follow and it will get easier.

Good luck on your journey,
Jen

[3legacy]

(((((((Tricky))))))))
Much to be said for the simplicity and singleness of purpose of AA. Although upon my entrance I wanted to change AA to suit me, my myriad of problems, and my ego, I stuck around long enough to simply become a member. I'm grateful to have found a sponsor willing to help lead me into a degree of humility through our First Tradition.

I used to be rather tricky myself in pushing the drug is a drug thing as a weapon on AA groups I attended. Today, I am grateful I changed and that AA is still Alcoholics Anonymous and not Drugs Anonymous.

((((((((((Tricky)))))))))) Glad you made it and hope and pray you can find enough humility to stick around.
3 Legacy

[Cap3]

Welcome Tricky,you remind me so,so very much of myself.In that i use to say one thing,and my actions were ,totally different that what i said.You say,that you want to fit in.But your actions say different.In AA,we deal with alcohol,cunning baffling and powerful.Knowing this you ,announce that your an addict.,only.You also say that when you say that your an addict,what your'e really saying is that you need help.Then say that you need help.You seem to go to great lenghts saying that your different,than the folks in da rooms.And wanting others to change.We step on,the toes,of, our fellows ,they retaliate.A drug,is a drug is a drug,from my own understanding orginally came from the NA program./rehab,.Could be wrong here.But no matter,alot of folks feel this way.You also say that when you relasped,that no one called.Tricky you are responsible for your own soberiety.You,make those calls, do what ever you have to for,your, soberiety.Don't wait for others.Its not their responsibilty to watch you.Sometime folks get peaved of,when others call,when they havent been to meetings.If AA has what your looking for,look for the similarites,not the differences.Start fitting in,if this is your desire.Others don't have to change.Share,live in the steps.Some folks i know go to both AA and NA.Why not?
Keep on,keeping on.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Tricky

so if im at your meeting and i say im an ADDICT im really saying i need HELP!! PLEASE dont look down on me or even push me away really im just like you except that my drug of choice was differant. . . peace to each and evey one of you. . . x

And as long as you keep getting up every day and looking for the solution, then you are bound to find the people you need to find. Be it in AA or NA or anywhere else. Don't let fear or the insular views held by members in either fellowship deter you.
As you let go of your anger, then the promise of belonging, when you say you do, will become all the more clearer to you.
And others.

[lulu70]

For me, what I actually call myself in a meeting is of absolutely no consequence, as long as I know where I come from and am willing to live in the solution. I was an alcohol and drug user, but I introduce myself as an alcoholic in AA meetings because to do otherwise can ruffle feathers. Most of the meetings I attend have no problem with people mentioning drugs along with alcohol when they share, but there are a few where the old-timer/book-thumpers might get on to you. In those cases I can talk to my sponsor and support people outside of the meeting about any problems I want.

Please don't let yourself be discouraged. Unfortunately, the people with the strongest opinions in either group also tend to be the most vocal. However, they are usually not the majority.

Hang in there!!

Hugs--

[Tricky]

Thankyou for your replys to this post, although i must say that this has been MY experience of the fellowships not others, at the moment im sweating, hurting,shaking, and cold, and my heads in a worse state, after reading cap3s post i was angry because i dont try to be different i try to be me. i havent touched a drink in some ten years./ ./ . and its real easy to say . . its your responcibility. . when your sober and clean for a while but what i was saying was that people had forgot step 12. . they preach it but they dont practice it. . . it sonds like my old sponcer "well, you knew my number you shouldve called" bo*locks. . i was the sick one and still am.

on reflection . . i dont know what i want, im as mad as a hatter at the moment and maybe im just to sick to REALLY realise it.... no offence. . . x

[Cap3]

Hey Tricky,even as a newcomer i needed to take responsibility.To get myself to meetings.To get a sponsor.To read/apply recovery program into my life.,with my sponsor.No way,could i wait for others,expecting them to do things.I needed to reach out and ask.Its unfortunate that you have decided to be,put, off about my last post.But this can be good,if you look into the reasons Why?Roots causes?Talk with you sponsor,or even others here.Get to the root.It will help you.I know because i have done this also.Another,will say something,that just burns my hair off.However,looking into the root of why,helped me to over-come,my issue,with another,using the 12 steps..
Thanks again for letting me share,,
God Bless,take care!!!!!!!!!

[nutz]

That's what makes us alki/addict or insane.(step #2)
It dosen't matter how much or how little we use.
Sometimes even when we don't use....dry drunks.

"you're excatly where you suppose to be."
I hate that damn slogen !!!
it's okay to be mad...just don't let it build up inside
of you. That's what drives us to drinking and using.
Resentments, hate and stuff like that
People call it life on life's trems...I call it Bullllsh@T

Sometimes we have to lower our expectations of other peaple,
this way our feelings don't hurt so easily. People never
behave or act like I think they should anyhow...so I just gave up
on that idea. I've been much happier for some reason. Funni how
things works sometimes.
Holy scmoly..a bunch of alki/addict in one room...anything goes.
I just suit up and show up sometimes...just to see what will happen.LMAF
Sometimes my ass be fall'in off between meeting too.
Sometimes it's like five minutes at a time....I feel like going out
of my freaken mind. Sometimes I just cry cuase that's all
i can do and I'm a guy.
Sometimes i just pray because there nothing else I can do.
But no matter what I do....I don't pick up NO MATTER WHAT.
I go the the meetings no matter what I think. I know..I'm a sick man.
Mmmm..maybe those crazy people are still learning how to LOVE ME.lol
I just do my part and go ,be open and willing.
Not everybody In AA loves me or like me..they don't have too
I don't expect them to anymore

[Don W]

I agree that it is the same what ever you used. We basicly use whatever to escape or try to cope with a situation. I wasn't into drugs but, once drunk I'd try anything to fit in. Alcohol had stopped doing it's job for me. I was a drug addicte just waiting to use. I remember at my rehab at the VA. I was sitting there and somebody mentioned cocane. I wasn't paying much attention until he said it allowed him to drink more. I sat right up. If I had known that, WOW. I feel all is closly tied together. Or at least one leads to the other. I agree that some don't welcome those from other addictions. I can remember back in the 80's when I first came around. That was when around here people first started asking to have court slips signed. One night I was writting down my phone number for someone. This oldtimer thought I was signing a court slip. He lit into me and called me Mr. AA and worse. I never went back to that meeting. What I've learned is to pick and choose my battles. Some of the craziest things people fight over. Down the road it means nothing. The longer I've stayed away from drinking my perspective of things have changed. Sadly, in the past I used situations like above for a reason to drink. Don W

[Andy F]

Hi Tricky

Last couple of weeks at my home group the speaker and some people from the floor have introduced themselves as addicts. One speaker said he had no real experience with alcohol, but due to his NA membership he accepted that he was powerless over alcohol. The general attitude to me sometimes is taking the p***, but that's the way AA is structured and if I am annoyed it's because of how I am perceiving things.

It may be NA's position that a drug is a drug and it may be the personal opinion of individual AA members, but this is not the view of Alcoholic's Anonymous. AA has no view on anything other that alcohol. It is only a requirement of AA to have a desire to stop drinking. Not a desire to stop other drug taking. That is a requirement of NA and the difference between the two. It is sufficient to be an alcoholic in AA, being an addict is overkill, lol.

If I had been an addict, I would have demanded my rights in AA. Then I hope I would have got down to business.

[Tricky]

i understand your posistion on this andy and i understand A.As but surly it is a desire to stop and that should be enough, i have that desire and i do and cannot drink because if i do i start my addiction all over again. . so once again i have a desire not to drink. . . the fact that it leads me to other things is irrelevent. . . i just want to be part of without predejuce. . .

[Tricky]

P/s

I Layed In The Gutter And Looked Down On Everybody !!

[BaBa OReiley]

tricky, you wrote............. "but what i was saying was that people had forgot step 12. . they preach it but they dont practice it."

my understanding of step twelve is to carry the message and practice the twelve steps in my life, MY being the key word here.

AA is a program of attraction not advertising or soliciting. by me being a better sober person it is up to others to call upon me and ask how i got where i am. that is when i tell that what I DID FOR ME, not preach what they do for them.

your sponsor was right, you had the number and should have used it. we can't force sobriety on our sponcee's. they have to want it. they have to chase it. yes, you are the sick one, but we are also sick. the only difference is we are seeking our recovery, by any means we have to. today i will go to any lengths to stay sober, that is my choice, not my sponsors.

stick with it tricky, those who truly want change in their lives will find the way to change.

[Andy F]

Richard

That is exactly what I am saying and we are, I think, agreeing with each other.

The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. But are you not expecting the rest of us to fall in line with your larger personal views on addiction? Intellectually, I know a drug-is-a-drug, but I have no experience. I think many addicts (not saying you) go to AA because it is convenient and expect it to be, in effect, NA.

I don't say anything when someone calls themself an addict at a meeting. And if you have a desire to stop drinking, when you take the chair and you talk about your experience, it can include anything, other drugs, gambling etc. And I'll wear purple underpants on my head to the meeting if I want to (please don't dare me). I argue with anyone who tries to censor the content of someones sharing at AA.

The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking and you can talk about your full experience in AA. The other drugs don't inhibit your AA membership, but they are also only relevant to you (so far as AA is concerned).

No offence is meant, I am not trying to change your views here.

[Tricky]

ok,
i will try to understand everybodys point of view on this subject, and if i go to an over- eaters meeting because im desparate i will say im an over-eater !!
only joking, im too sick to have a sencible discussion peace to each and every one of you because with you i am truly NOT alone. . . x

[BaBa OReiley]

we got a guy around here who takes the argument out of it all, he states his case about drugs, sex, gambling, yada yada yada.......... then he says he does them all alcoholically!

read the NA steps again, i haven't been there in awhile but i believe it doesn't talk about the drugs, it does however talk about the addiction!

my name is bill,
and i'm addicted to alcohol, among other things, shoot, i'm probably addicted to things that haven't even been invented yet!

what's the big deal here anyway, sounds more like ego than anything else? when in rome do as the romans i say!

it's all about us, ..... not what we used. the steps are the same in both programs except for one word, AA says alcohol once! NA says addiction. I kind of agree with NA more than AA, i'm powerless over my addiction to alcohol, not the alcohol itself.

i found that i would do anything to get high, now, seeking recovery i became one fussy, picky, s.o.b. complaining about everything i didn't want to say or do! trying to get people and customs to change to my liking!

today i just go to meetings and try to live the steps!

by the way, i pray to my higher power that one day i might be witness to the person who comes into a meeting holding a big wooden tee stating....... Hi, my name is so and so and i'm cross addicted!

[Dan]

Alcoholics Anonymous, and it's program of recovery, can and will help a drug addict get and stay clean. Much like Narcotics Anonymous and it's program of recovery can and will help an alcoholic get and stay sober.
I'm lucky that I qualify honestly in both. Alcohol abuse was the closing chapter of thirty years of addiction to substances.
If I'm really willing to get and accept the help of either fellowship, I'll certainly find it within myself to call myself an alcoholic at certain AA meetings.
Small price to pay, if a price at all.

[Tricky]

im sorry if im wrong but this seems to have turned into me bashing the fellowships up. i didnt start this thread to do that , this is my experience of the meetings not others. we can all take what people have written in posts and analyse and criitisize it.. such as. . . when in rome do as the romans do. . . fine, but if im in rome and i eat pasta and speak in italian and i dont like pasta and cant speak italian they will soon think im taking the pis* surly its much better to say to them . . i like rome and i like your ways but im english and really want your help. . . what does me up about meetings in genaral is that they were created to help people and i need help.. you say i should have rang my sponcer but in my book id rather ring someone to see how they are [not forse recovery on them] rather than go to thier funera and say a few kind words like what a nice guy he was !! all this politics is too much for me, i dont want people to see my view l just want help, and it doesnt matter what fellowship thier from or weather they live on mars... thankyou for your time and responces..

[jlo34]

Tricky,
That's the problem, though. Everyone has an opinion. Many people have formed an opinion from hearing what others' have said and have failed to form their own opinions...blah blah blah.

TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE.

Like I said before, the only requirement for AA membership is a desire not to drink. As long as you have that desire you are welcome. I have never gone to NA, so I don't know anything about the groups, their steps or anything else. I imagine they are run a lot like AA, but I have no experience. I do have several years of experience with AA. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who walks through the doors of AA looking for help, I must reach out the hand of AA. That is my responsibility. As far as calling people up and checking up on them...not my responsibility. If you want help, you call me. I tell my gals what meetings I'm at if they want to see me. It's too hard to keep track of everyone...why should it be my responsibility to call everyone and check up on them?!? Sorry, but it should be the person wanting help's responsibility to call. If you really want it and will go to any length to get it, then you will call. Just my opinion.

As far as the "cross-addicted", yea BaBa, when someone says that I picture that person standing in the midst of a field of crosses, I'm sure I smile and snicker a bit at myself at the picture!!! Some of the old-timers (at that time) use to look people in the eye when they labeled themselves that and ask them, "so, you're saying you're addicted to crosses! What next!". Was kinda funny now that I reflect on that!!!

I am an alcoholic, I can be addicted to anything. Bottom line. Smoking. Driving. Driving fast. Workaholic. Exercise-aholic. You name it. I still don't know much about moderation, but I'm learning.

I had an addicted personality long before I ever put any substances in my body. The substances (which for me was alcohol, caffeine pills, prescription meds, rubbing alcohol) were just something that enhanced. I could further this by saying that I also did other "acts" to change the way I felt...sex, bulimia, anorexia. The core problem is the space between my ears. It's not what I did or what I used. For me, my primary thing was alcohol. There's no doubt that had I gotten into drugs, I would have been fully addicted to them as well.

My advice. Go with what works. If you are truly doing this for yourself, quit worrying about what people think about you - it's none of your business. If you want to stay clean and sober, do everything it takes to do so and worry about yourself and getting better. All that extra outside BS is just that, BS. Don't worry about it.

[Shalom]

I'm living with an addict but my question is when do addicts stop hiding behind recovery and cross the bridge to normal living. I think what Tricky is saying is that he was promised two things, sobriety and fellowship. The minute he lost the first he automatically lost the second, not because he wanted to thats just the way it was.
I believe that you only get healed when you start reaching out to others, or as Tricky says you only keep what you have by giving it away - serving. Resentments and Forgiveness go hand in hand although some are affected by by promises that others have failed to keep with no amends. My understanding of fellowship in whatever setting you choose is about loving others. Love goes beyond mere words, it is sometimes silent and doesnt condemn or just tell others what the problems are, it helps to carry the the weight of their burdens. Sensistivity is whats required, no one probably wanted to be preached at when they first entered the rooms and yet there are others who could be helped by carrying the message forward. When you practise the 12 step others will be watching and notice the changes. This then opens a door to sharing your story. Every Addict is a precious and lost soul whom God loves and wants to rescue. "If anyone among you wanders away from the truth.... the one who brings that person back will save that sinner from death and bring him about forgiveness of many sins" James 5 v19-20. So who's responsibilty is it really when a person is in need?

[3legacy]

Sometimes I see love as laying it on the table. Lot of particular yet veiled in this thread but I am willing to speak one on one live-time with the thread starter anytime I'm available if they are willing & interested?

[Tricky]

Shalom,
your so right. . . if jesus was walking the earth today do you think he would be sitting indoors waiting to hear from people that needed help, or do you think he would be out with prostitutes, addicts/ alcoholics and the homeless. . . . . my point is it sounds like people would rather go to funerals than make a call that could save someones life. . . . " i know he died but he/she knew my number they should've called. . . peace be with you shalom. . .

[3legacy]

((((((Tricky)))))))
Thanks for the PM. I will try calling if that was in fact a phone number you past on. Just had a call come in from my Sister a couple States away. Need to return it first cuz its regarding my nephew whom I last saw while in Idaho last September. While there, I visited him up at 40 Horse Caves where he was hiding out on the lamb. LOL He is so much like me its amazing. Sounds like he might be ready for a phone call himself. LOL called him a couple days back just to let him know I love him and that Sobriety aint easy but sure beat the alternatives I myself had taken that he is now looking at through court proceedings.

[mackat]

my mind

so likes to be entertained

tragedy, comedy- no diffrence
believing i know the 'why'of anyone else's thinking....

amazing!
still wanting to be a god-apart-from

still afraid to be part of the godofloveofAll

sneaky. very sneaky.