A Newcomer Asks: What about the God thing?

[Chy]

How do we explain it? How do we keep them from fearing this issue? What non-judmental suggestions can you best provide? Keep in mind the agnostic with love and compassion. Be thoughtful, considerate and respectful when posting your reply.

[Dan]

Mmmm...
Good idea Chy.
This is going to be a great thread.
I'll just say this. I stuggled with the concept of god most of my life. I am by most definitions an agnostic, although there is so much more to what I try to describe when I use that term...
Wasn't until I came to AA and heard the words a god of your understanding that I started believing I might be able to garner some connection to the great cosmic riddle called god.
And for that, I am grateful.

[2dayzmuse]

I've never been an overly religous person. In fact, I was turned off by organized religion. Terms used that contained "God this, God that" I turned a deaf ear to, not interested. Then I hurt bad enough and turned to AA. It was suggested to me that I pray to a God of my understanding. Good Orderly Direction. I thought "what do I have to lose? Worse case scenario, a few wasted moments. Since I started this, my life has turned around. Something I could never manage to accomplish before. Call it positive energy, good karma, or maybe a cosmic placebo. What do I have to lose? Nothing. What do I have to gain? Everything. It's made a believer in me. After the changes in my life, be it large or small, how could I not?

[Chy]

Wonderful, this was what I was looking for! I'll get to my perspective a bit later.

[DesertEyes]

An alcoholic/addict who is active in their disease is in the midst of controlling all the people, places and things around them. Such a person has placed themselves in the role of a God, attempting to change the whole world to their own liking.

The point to the "God thing" in a recovery program is _not_ to bring about a belief in some external higher power.

The point is to extinguish the belief that the addict/alkie _is_ the higher power. As my great grand-pappy sponsor once told me "The only thing you have to understand about the higher power is that _you_ are not It".

Get that concept thru a drug clouded mind an everthing else will be easy ;-)

Mike :-)

[greenmeadow]

I am not sure what words to use while trying to expalin this as I understand it.

I was brought up to believe in God. I believed in God.

One day as a child still, I looked up at the night sky saw the stars, the moon and wondered where did it end? like how far did it go? And what happened then? Was there a border like when you draw a circle? What was outside it?

I couldn't grasp the vastness of the universe. I asked a minister about this. I don't remember the response but I think my question may not have been that clear at the time as I was very young.

Somewhere in my teens I browsed the library and took out books on various religions and read about many.

Later, at school, I read about agnostics, studied philosophy, freedom of will versus pre-determination, existential phenomenology, all sorts of things, across many cultures and countries.

I saw that around the globe, people of all times had stories, and (in my understanding) all were an attempt to put order on what they experienced in life and saw happening around them.

There is a difference in degree in belief I feel. There is what you are taught, what you say by rote; what you say when you think oh yes i believe in God, and say so even as you wonder why terrible things might happen around you; what you say when you feel your faith slipping etc.; what you say as you think oh how can there be a God?

Faith in a higher power is an amazing thing. How to explain when "a leap of faith" happens with tangible results? Or how to explain how prayers work even though the cardiology field has said much about this?

Today I think of a metaphor. There's this little ant crawling around doing it's own thing, wandering across a sidewalk, crawling over a leaf, scurrying back and forth. Is it aware that its world is bigger than let's say a mile? Maybe it's busy crawling at the base of the highest mountain in the world? Does it know that mountain exists? Does it even care?

I want to know that in that great cosmos out there, too huge for me to comprehend, that someone is in charge, that there is meaning to everything down here, I like order out of chaos.

I don't have answers to this question "what about the God thing?"

I can say that I believe in God, and when I truly "surrender" and not spout things by "rote", a lot of personal and internal chaos whatever it is begins to settle and calm down.

If we all did what we can, followed principles that meant we did the best for our fellow man and ourselves, would we not have a better world?

On another note, (sorry if I hop from one idea to another), even if we look only at physics and scientific data there is much that says there is order in the physical world. Maybe it's just us humans that keep screwing up with self -inflicted chaos.

The more I write the more I realize I have no answers.

But I do believe in God (HP) and there is comfort and benefits.

greenmeadow

[1Marty]

Originally Posted by Chy

How do we explain it? How do we keep them from fearing this issue? What non-judmental suggestions can you best provide? Keep in mind the agnostic with love and compassion. Be thoughtful, considerate and respectful when posting your reply.

I would stress that getting a higher power does not mean you need to become religious. To those uncomfortable with God as their higher power. I like to suggest the AA group as a higher power. It is greater than yourself, and together, the members are helping eachother stay sober.

[Music]

I think I'd tell the newcomer the same thing that was told to me. I was told that I needed to develope a relationship with some sort of higher power and it didn't matter what I called it. What I did need to realize was that my life up to that point had been run on my self will and that it wasn't working too well, otherwise I'd be sitting somewhere besides at an AA meeting looking like some kind of whipped puppy. I would share that since I started to believe that I couldn't do it alone, that I needed help from something, somewhere, that I've been sober, or at least I haven't found it necessary to take a drink in quite a while. I would say that it's no big deal who or what I choose as my higher power as long as it works for me. It is true that when Bill wrote the steps he was a member of a Christian based religion but that's why the wording is changed. I don't have to believe in the "Christian" God. I just have to believe that there is a higher power out there somewhere and it ain't me. Finally, I'd suggest that the newcomer read Chapter 4, "We Agnostics" amd to keep reading it until it makes sense. That's what I did. After reading this chapter several times, it dawned on me that of the several billions of people in the world who believe in some sort of power greater than themselves, regardless of what they call it, and here I say there is no such power, does that make me right and all of them wrong?

[Cap3]

I walked out of my first AA meeting.Wouldnt you know it,the man that was sharring at an open meeting was talking about God.I was livid.My cousin who broguht me to this meeting came out after me,and we talked.Or should i say i yelled at him.lol.He shared with me,.Here was a man who was drunk most of his life.Now sober,sharring about God.,too.He then laid the spiritual tooks at my feet,and let me decide.Today i share with the newcomer.With no reservations.And lay the spitual tools at their feet...They will decide,and grow,as i am.The program of AA works when i work it and follow.It will for the newcomer too.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

GROUP OF DRUNKS is how we call it. This program is for the people that want it. The only way, I could get this program was to get humble. The most important thing is to get a newcomer sober. After a person is sober, you can work with him or her about the spiritual part of the program.

I was born and raised a Christian. I still have a problem with someone doing bible readings at a meeting. I don't know why this is. Look in any phone book in any town and see how many churches there are in that town. It's not the bible it's the people that cause the problem.
How we go about carrying out the 12th step and not running someone out. AA was my last chance. It's brought God back into my life. For this I can't repay AA enough

[MootPoint]

Man I love this thread! Just what I needed.

Having problems with HP, I'm just going to read

[bballdad]

we don`t have to explain it to them,the book does
send them to the chapter "we agnostics"

one problem is we do try and explain it to them

they will come to their own conception some time,and it won`t be my time either

[Chy]

One of my "teachers" on the subject just posted yet another awe inspiring post, and I feel missing an opportunity to read any of Peter's posts would be unfortunate.

http://soberrecovery.com/forums/show...20&postcount=4

[Don W]

I can only speak from my experence. First coming around I made a big deal about it. However, I got so bad that I had to get honest and decide if I was using it as excuse to drink. There were also times when I felt, hey I believe in God so I'll try, then think, what if it did work? Half was afraid it wouldn't and half was afraid it would. I guess
today I'd say" Although you might not want God to lead you into AA, you might not want to let it keep you out. There are other recovery programs and when I wanted to drink I found fault with everyone. AA is like everyother group or club, each has it's own personality. Some might push the God thing some might not. The great part is you have a choice. While choosing though, attend something. Don W

[Molendie]

God is what we're not. I dont believe in pluralism... I found our higher power which we should all know as God. He is forming me, im not forming him.
step2- HIGHER POWER
from there after- GOD (of ur own understanding)
I dont believe it is right to invent ur own god idol. there is only one God i believe. And there is only one way to get to him and forgivness of our sins!
God bless.
-TIMMAH

[nutz]

Even B.W. mind snapped when he saw that God was mention.

I usually try to break the ice by being silly or sarcastic in a way.
Good lord....God almighty.
A new comer that approches me usually tells me it was something
that I said in a meeting that trigger their heart.

I use different terms The big happy dude, The old man up stairs,
IT, the thing, HER ?....

But , I share my experience, pretening to this subject
"I f**ken was so mad at that freanken dude, I flip the bird
at him and told him to go to hell and F**k off and die.
That freaken jerk", A-hole. It was something that I did
and that's how I felt about it at that moment.
Whatever damning ,shaming God I though of at the time didn't
strike me with a lighting bolt.
I still ducked, just incease.lol

Most of the time I just listen. If they ask me more,
I use annalogies that person might comprehend or understand.

or I piont out what chapter to read that involves this matter.

After all I'm nutz, I talk to a tree...remember.
To lighten up things or share experience in our lives.
Newcomer or people ask me where is tree i'm talking
to . They wanna borrow the tree or have a talk with it too.
De old ladies or life is driving them bonkers just as will.

[Birddog]

I really didn't need to start believing in "God" to get results in AA.

I just had to stop denying the existance of a higher power.

For myself, higher power is not an individual entity, its more like a universal force.

[nutz]

I'm not into religion or go to church.
When attending church as a teenager i was stoned half the time
nor paid much attention. But The damning and hell crap got my attention.
Maybe it was becuase I played stairway to heven backwards too
many time . It didn't matter how stoned or Buzzed I was , I still
couldn't hear it.

I listened to a lot of heavy metal, some which has santanic lyrics.
You didn't need to play it backwards.

I read the bible many times over and over again when I was using.
half the time it skared the be ggee beeies out of me.

However in my earliy recovery the phrase that I hung on to was
"WITH GOD EVERYTHING IS POSSIABLE"

[spork]

I really struggled with the God thing as a newcomer. I heard "God" and thought of Jim and Tammy Faye, and a zillion other religious folks I thought of as hypocrites. I didn't want any part of an old white man God.

I was really lucky - a sponsor found me way before I got sober. When I finally stopped drinking I was surrounded immediately by a bunch of the winners we are told to stick with. They believed - I could see that - and I trusted them. But I couldn't reconcile religion, God, and Susan.

One day I was talking to a guy who had been sober for about 5 years - and boy, didn't that sound like an eternity?? He knew I was struggling, and we talked about "a God of MY understanding," which helped - but then he said to me, "Believe that I believe. You don't need to believe in God - but believe that I believe." For some reason, that day, that made sense to me. I was able to suspend my disbelief and believe that he believed, and that belief made a difference in his life.

Well, now, a number of years later, I'm comfortable with the God of my understanding. I call her The Big Chick. A year ago, I did something I NEVER in my wildest dreams imagined I'd ever do - I joined a church. I found a church where my non-traditional belief structure fits in - I'm now a Unitarian Universalist.

I may not believe in the old white guy - but I do believe in a higher power, and more importantly, most days I know I'm not God.

If newcomers can suspend their disbelief, until they're really ready to deal with it - it's much easier for them. The hoop we have to jump through is bigger than we think.