What is it with people in AA?
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Sometimes our experiences can be misinterpreted or misremembered by ourselves.
i don't see it as misinterpret, but as re-interpret. or...seeing from a different perspective.
widening the lens. or, starting from a different standpoint.
i don't see it as misinterpret, but as re-interpret. or...seeing from a different perspective.
widening the lens. or, starting from a different standpoint.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
WHAT IS IT WITH PEOPLE IN AA ?
People in AA ? , Firstly the 12 Step recovery program and the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous are not like an assembly line of cars that come out the other end all exactly the same . Same as the recovery program does not produce the exact same result in its members , some have grave and emotional mental disorders but can recover if they have the capacity to be honest .
Those that are in the program that go to any lengths and do not do half measures and have let go of their old ideas , those that have cleaned house , made amends, that have been restored to sanity and the obsession has been removed and have had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps , those that carry the message and sponsor others , and practice the principles in all their affairs . Doing this keeps them in good spiritual condition as the work steps 10 11 and 12 each day , I would say that these people have only ''one kind of honesty '' as in ''all of their affairs ''. I would say that they have recovered .
Those recovering, are going through the process all the while learning often through mistakes picking themselves up and starting again, some may have their own version of honesty as they see things , it may depend on their personal or financial circumstances , they may bend the rules turn a blind eye or even may have a limit where they rationalize and justify saying when I reach there '' I am going to be honest '' ? feathering the nest , could say that is human nature or survival tactics . Some may have a roving eye towards the opposite sex , some may be married or single ? If this is so they are applying the parts of the program to suit , or like a patch up job , many of the recover if they have the capacity to be honest , This was how I behaved but there was a big difference ''I was aware '' which is a bit different because I never behaved like that ''without thinking '' and it was only when my ''desire to change '' outweighed my ''desire to stay the same'' that I''finally got honest with myself '' no half measures or old ideas or easier softer ways .
Those that do not recover ? ( non recovering or recovered ) .
In my estimation , recovering starts when taking the first 3 steps then through to having a spiritual awakening is when they are recovered .
Stopping drinking without taking, in AA steps 1, 2 and 3 are left with alcoholic thinking or untreated alcoholism , old ideas , half or little measures , which lead to being a dry drunk , there chances are less than average ''but its still possible to recover I believe if determined '' .
Three categories if you wish of people in AA , and if you cant smell them you cant tell them , people from all walks of life some with directly opposing views , some well mannered , some when it suits them , or some that are ignorant , some really honest , some honest when it suits them , or some totally dishonest some faithful , some unfaithful when it suits them , some that don't really care some totally selfish .
Happy, Glad, Mad, Sad and Bad a collection of human beings that inhabit the earth , some come to AA . Heard it said '' AA does not save souls '' It only wrings them out ''(grin ).
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
People in AA ? , Firstly the 12 Step recovery program and the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous are not like an assembly line of cars that come out the other end all exactly the same . Same as the recovery program does not produce the exact same result in its members , some have grave and emotional mental disorders but can recover if they have the capacity to be honest .
Those that are in the program that go to any lengths and do not do half measures and have let go of their old ideas , those that have cleaned house , made amends, that have been restored to sanity and the obsession has been removed and have had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps , those that carry the message and sponsor others , and practice the principles in all their affairs . Doing this keeps them in good spiritual condition as the work steps 10 11 and 12 each day , I would say that these people have only ''one kind of honesty '' as in ''all of their affairs ''. I would say that they have recovered .
Those recovering, are going through the process all the while learning often through mistakes picking themselves up and starting again, some may have their own version of honesty as they see things , it may depend on their personal or financial circumstances , they may bend the rules turn a blind eye or even may have a limit where they rationalize and justify saying when I reach there '' I am going to be honest '' ? feathering the nest , could say that is human nature or survival tactics . Some may have a roving eye towards the opposite sex , some may be married or single ? If this is so they are applying the parts of the program to suit , or like a patch up job , many of the recover if they have the capacity to be honest , This was how I behaved but there was a big difference ''I was aware '' which is a bit different because I never behaved like that ''without thinking '' and it was only when my ''desire to change '' outweighed my ''desire to stay the same'' that I''finally got honest with myself '' no half measures or old ideas or easier softer ways .
Those that do not recover ? ( non recovering or recovered ) .
In my estimation , recovering starts when taking the first 3 steps then through to having a spiritual awakening is when they are recovered .
Stopping drinking without taking, in AA steps 1, 2 and 3 are left with alcoholic thinking or untreated alcoholism , old ideas , half or little measures , which lead to being a dry drunk , there chances are less than average ''but its still possible to recover I believe if determined '' .
Three categories if you wish of people in AA , and if you cant smell them you cant tell them , people from all walks of life some with directly opposing views , some well mannered , some when it suits them , or some that are ignorant , some really honest , some honest when it suits them , or some totally dishonest some faithful , some unfaithful when it suits them , some that don't really care some totally selfish .
Happy, Glad, Mad, Sad and Bad a collection of human beings that inhabit the earth , some come to AA . Heard it said '' AA does not save souls '' It only wrings them out ''(grin ).
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 138
Had a talk with a cop recently, a big guy, and actually the kind of cop you read about in stories as a kid....a good man, decent, thoughtful, dedicated, fair minded, 30 years on the job.
So we were surveying the homeless opioid type crowd, and somehow our conversation mused that the phenomenon may have in fact been exacerbated if not intentionally induced by the modern lucrative 'treatment' industry. ('some of us turned to high powered sedatives with which to taper off...next day found us doing both'....)
We rounded off on this city's 'rehabs' which all deteriorate into crack houses and meth labs within six months...and lamented how with a recent influx of homeless problem people, the churches and other political powers that be are all grabbing for money to play the rehab game again....this time they want 24hr babysitters for those on waitlists, with FIVE YEAR followup babysitting aftercare...a whole fleet of doctors to be finally specially trained in the new scientific arts of dosing and recovery...he felt them to be an unconscionable waste of resources, grossly ineffective, and some kind of a grim joke. We agreed on this, and while i knew little about 'pure drug addicts' per say, i said that AA's founder saw alcoholism as having a spiritual cause and remedy, that doctors and counselors of therapy cannot pull a livelihood from, and therefore can never sell. That i never did inquire into what went wrong with NA, i was just told it stood for Non Applicable.
Anyways, then he asked this exact very pointed question -
"What is it with people in AA?"
He says - 'Everyone i know who has gone to AA and made a decision to stick with it, to really devote themselves', he said, 'they didn't just get better....' he says...'they're in fact BETTER than all the normal good people i know. Can you tell me why in the hell that is?' he asked. 'What is the secret?'
How do you explain the inexplicable, except by understatement.
It actually works
So we were surveying the homeless opioid type crowd, and somehow our conversation mused that the phenomenon may have in fact been exacerbated if not intentionally induced by the modern lucrative 'treatment' industry. ('some of us turned to high powered sedatives with which to taper off...next day found us doing both'....)
We rounded off on this city's 'rehabs' which all deteriorate into crack houses and meth labs within six months...and lamented how with a recent influx of homeless problem people, the churches and other political powers that be are all grabbing for money to play the rehab game again....this time they want 24hr babysitters for those on waitlists, with FIVE YEAR followup babysitting aftercare...a whole fleet of doctors to be finally specially trained in the new scientific arts of dosing and recovery...he felt them to be an unconscionable waste of resources, grossly ineffective, and some kind of a grim joke. We agreed on this, and while i knew little about 'pure drug addicts' per say, i said that AA's founder saw alcoholism as having a spiritual cause and remedy, that doctors and counselors of therapy cannot pull a livelihood from, and therefore can never sell. That i never did inquire into what went wrong with NA, i was just told it stood for Non Applicable.
Anyways, then he asked this exact very pointed question -
"What is it with people in AA?"
He says - 'Everyone i know who has gone to AA and made a decision to stick with it, to really devote themselves', he said, 'they didn't just get better....' he says...'they're in fact BETTER than all the normal good people i know. Can you tell me why in the hell that is?' he asked. 'What is the secret?'
How do you explain the inexplicable, except by understatement.
It actually works
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 138
Maybe not in your AA groups, but people are being told by sponsors to pray instead of reaching out to people for help when they are on the verge.
Maybe i read it wrong but the book i was given pretty clearly emphasizes that it will be inself forgetting, self surrender, self sacrifice, i.e. GIVING. ONLY. that i might expect to receive, and that, my friend, is what i finally, desperate, decided to try. BANG. sober, astonished, and unforgettable. Selfishness, we think, is the root of ALL our problems including our drinking. Well, that, and a grand intellect besides.....lol...
God is not the author of confusion.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by awuh1 
Nicely said paulokes. I can't imagine why anyone would be offended by your post.
IMO "the program" is a bit like riding a horse. You can observe a horse, make a painting of one or ride a merry-go-round but you won't know what it is like to ride a horse until you get on the back of one of those animals and it starts to move.
IMO "the program" is a bit like riding a horse. You can observe a horse, make a painting of one or ride a merry-go-round but you won't know what it is like to ride a horse until you get on the back of one of those animals and it starts to move.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
What's bad is that it's the 21st century and people cannot seem to understand that being powerless over alcohol, is the same today as yesterday. Our lives being unmanageable is why we struggle along daily with an AA program. It's an attempt to be responsible and productive human beings.
I came in to the program in 1990 and have not had a drink since. So yes I am one of those hard headed "old timers," thank God! I do not go to AA meetings to keep YOU sober. I go to AA meetings because I want to stay sober. If you don't like AA, it's still a free country, go do something else. AA requires people to "take action" and that means doing more than looking to Google for your answer. The people that helped me stay sober in AA were wonderful yet stearn. Newcomers usually think that they can play some kind of bullsh@t games and con their way around something. Once again, most of us are there so that WE stay sober. If you hang with us, YOU might want to stay sober too.
AA is pretty straight forward about staying sober. If you think that AA is not for you, maybe you are not alcoholic. The Big Book mentions going to the local watering hole and trying some "controlled drinking." Maybe you need to do that. If doing that sounds as stupid to you as it does to me. Maybe AA is where you belong. But not wanting to be around "those people" places one on a slippery slope. "I'm not like them! MY case is different!" That's what some of us call "terminal uniqueness." It's actually denial but those who prefer Google cannot believe that doctors still blame it on denial. "Not in this day and time," I read in a post a few weeks ago.
I don't know what you are looking for. Coming to AA every few months is probably not where you will find it though. The Twelve Steps of AA have given many of us our lives back. Once again we have a chance to be sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms or dads again. Happy? Most of us are. but life does not guarantee that anyone will be.
But there is an answer, an easy way to deal with the wreckage of alcoholism. Open the AA Big Book to chapter 5 and read the first sentence. There is your answer, all in one sentence. It's worked for me for 26+ years and my wife, family and friends do not avoid me today. And that's important to me. A gauge to how my program is working.
In closing I have one wish for you. I wish you desperation, the same kind of desperation that forced me and many more like me to seek relief from the hell of drinking!
I came in to the program in 1990 and have not had a drink since. So yes I am one of those hard headed "old timers," thank God! I do not go to AA meetings to keep YOU sober. I go to AA meetings because I want to stay sober. If you don't like AA, it's still a free country, go do something else. AA requires people to "take action" and that means doing more than looking to Google for your answer. The people that helped me stay sober in AA were wonderful yet stearn. Newcomers usually think that they can play some kind of bullsh@t games and con their way around something. Once again, most of us are there so that WE stay sober. If you hang with us, YOU might want to stay sober too.
AA is pretty straight forward about staying sober. If you think that AA is not for you, maybe you are not alcoholic. The Big Book mentions going to the local watering hole and trying some "controlled drinking." Maybe you need to do that. If doing that sounds as stupid to you as it does to me. Maybe AA is where you belong. But not wanting to be around "those people" places one on a slippery slope. "I'm not like them! MY case is different!" That's what some of us call "terminal uniqueness." It's actually denial but those who prefer Google cannot believe that doctors still blame it on denial. "Not in this day and time," I read in a post a few weeks ago.
I don't know what you are looking for. Coming to AA every few months is probably not where you will find it though. The Twelve Steps of AA have given many of us our lives back. Once again we have a chance to be sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms or dads again. Happy? Most of us are. but life does not guarantee that anyone will be.
But there is an answer, an easy way to deal with the wreckage of alcoholism. Open the AA Big Book to chapter 5 and read the first sentence. There is your answer, all in one sentence. It's worked for me for 26+ years and my wife, family and friends do not avoid me today. And that's important to me. A gauge to how my program is working.
In closing I have one wish for you. I wish you desperation, the same kind of desperation that forced me and many more like me to seek relief from the hell of drinking!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
This will probably not go over well, but here goes. Yes, old-timers are very valuable at the meetings. They have a lot of wisdom and a great message to share with newcomers. Everyone serious about recovery should listen closely to them. The part of this post that might go over well is from my experience, old-timers stick with old-timers, probably because they have know each other for a long time. No problem with that. Makes sense. But outside of sharing their wisdom, they show no interest in the newcomer. I get the impression they feel they've done their job and don't need to do anything more. I think their a pretty closed group and prefer to keep it that way. Just my observations. John
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Here is a bit of my experience John. In 2011 my home town was all but destroyed in a series of earthquakes. Our group meeting venue was destroyed, so we moved to another, it was destroyed in the next one, so we moved again. The numbers in our group reduced. For the final couple of months it was reduced to just five of us, all with more than 20 years. No newcomers. Old timer paradise you would say, but we were concerned.
We held a group conscience. We know that our primary purpose is to carry the message and we were not doing that. We had turned into a back slappers club in a way, we were paying all our tradition seven money in rent, not really making any useful contribution to AA and doing nothing for the newcomer.
We voted to close down our group and go and support another. We have no interest in sitting around bragging to each other and excluding the new guy. We knew our very lives as alcoholics depend upon constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs. All of us are active in sponsorship and working with others, as well as other activities in carrying the message. The fundamental message which AA has known all along has recently been confirmed by research. If you help others your own chances of staying sober improve exponentially.
However if one is always the one being helped, expecting to be helped, waiting to be helped, one's chances are no different to one who has no help. A person who always breathes in will eventually suffocate.
We held a group conscience. We know that our primary purpose is to carry the message and we were not doing that. We had turned into a back slappers club in a way, we were paying all our tradition seven money in rent, not really making any useful contribution to AA and doing nothing for the newcomer.
We voted to close down our group and go and support another. We have no interest in sitting around bragging to each other and excluding the new guy. We knew our very lives as alcoholics depend upon constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs. All of us are active in sponsorship and working with others, as well as other activities in carrying the message. The fundamental message which AA has known all along has recently been confirmed by research. If you help others your own chances of staying sober improve exponentially.
However if one is always the one being helped, expecting to be helped, waiting to be helped, one's chances are no different to one who has no help. A person who always breathes in will eventually suffocate.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
... The part of this post that might go over well is from my experience, old-timers stick with old-timers, probably because they have know each other for a long time. No problem with that. Makes sense. But outside of sharing their wisdom, they show no interest in the newcomer. I get the impression they feel they've done their job and don't need to do anything more. I think their a pretty closed group and prefer to keep it that way. Just my observations. John
However, 2m-pain makes a valid point. Many old-timers (myself included) do spend time with those we already know. This isn't to say many old-timers don't welcome the newcomer but often it's simpler to spend time chatting with those you know. This year I found it a bit awkward spending six weeks in meetings where I didn't know anyone. But I hung out and slowly started to make friends with of some other regulars.
Why the luck? Maybe it's because I'm middle-aged, employed and married. No threat to anyone. Or maybe it's because I have always been pretty outgoing but making friends in AA has never been much of an issue.
My best suggestion is to hang out after a meeting which has a coffee area. In the beginning hang back and let the others talk. Slowly get to know them.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
I think for me there are several things going on for me. I'm 66 years old. Most people my age are pretty much set with their family and friends. Their not much interested in taking on new people and that makes sense. I've seen younger people at the meetings hooking up all the time cause their social life isn't set yet, so their open to including new people. That's just the way it is, and I'm fine with that. Not many people my age are interested in taking a chance on including a new person, cause they really have nothing to gain. They already have what they need, so why would they take a chance on someone new who could mess up what they have? I'm not sure I would either. It's a risky thing to do. Better to play it safe than take a chance. That's just reality and I accept it. But unfortunately my reality is different. I have no friends where I live and my family is far away and I don't get along with most of them. For the most part, I do fine with this, but like the saying goes, people need people. I live in an apartment and as anybody that lives in an apartment knows, people keep to themselves. I have a job that does not open itself to developing friendships, so there it is. That's why I'm drinking now, cause it really makes no difference. I don't think this has anything with self-pity. It's just accepting my reality and doing what I can to make it as comfortable as possible. It's a fact that I busted my butt to be a part of the AA community, and for whatever reason it didn't work. I will be moving at the end of January and will try AA again, so I haven't given up, but I have to admit I'm pretty much at the end of my ropes. I don't see a point to drinking or not drinking. Makes no difference. Not playing the blame game here, cause everybody makes their own bed, but just a few people at those meetings that showed real concern for me might of made a big difference. I did everything they said I should do but made no difference. Kissing their butt was the only thing I didn't do, and I won't do that. Rather die than that. Just being honest. John
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
John I am 70 years old and AA ''works if YOU work it '' and if you don't it wont , I made an ass of it for 30 odd years before I was ''willing to go to any lengths '' you are in no way unique , I know you do not think you are , but I am just saying ''there is an answer '' take care young man ''grin''
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
I bought a plot next to my mother. I plan on working on paying for the rest of what's necessary, shipping by body, funeral plans, etc., to take care of the rest. I think I'm ready for it now. I'm not working towards it or am in a hurry for that to happen, but I'm ok with it now if something should happen. I've had a great life with no complaints. I've traveled a lot, met some great people and have spent my life helping others. I've lived my life well, never hurt anybody intentionally, helped others when I could, tried to respect everybody. To me, that's what life's all about. I know I've changed lives forever. I've held a former students baby, been to a students wedding. I've been blessed. Maybe it's time to relax and let life take it's course. No sympathy here. I've touched more lives than most do. Actually, I'm excited about what's next, whether it's moving on to an afterlife or a new town to move to. John
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by stevieg46
John I am 70 years old and AA ''works if YOU work it '' and if you don't it wont , I made an ass of it for 30 odd years before I was ''willing to go to any lengths '' you are in no way unique , I know you do not think you are , but I am just saying ''there is an answer '' take care young man ''grin''
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
Man Stevie, I really do wish it worked that way. I really do. I worked my a## off doing everything I was told to do but made no difference. It just comes down to whether they feel you are the type of person they want as part of their group or not. That's just the way it is. Maybe it's where I live or something about me that turns people off. They just see me as somebody they don't want to get to know. I hate to say this, but this problem will probably mean a terrible alcoholic death for me. I understand it's a terrible way to go, but I just don't see any other options. I shouldn't see it this way, but at least I have good health insurance that will care for me until then. I find a lot of comfort in that. John
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
John you seem to want everyone in AA to change just to suit or please you , it is ''you'' that needs to change , when you learn to be comfortable with your self , its then and only then that you will feel comfortable with others . Its you that needs change not others , think seriously about that , take care . I am off to bed gym in the morning at 7 am goodnight buddy .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by stevieg46
John you seem to want everyone in AA to change just to suit or please you , it is ''you'' that needs to change , when you learn to be comfortable with your self , its then and only then that you will feel comfortable with others . Its you that needs change not others , think seriously about that , take care . I am off to bed gym in the morning at 7 am goodnight buddy .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
So, you have no friends where you live and your family is far away and you don't get along with most of them. People in your apartment keep to themselves and you have a job that does not open itself to developing friendships. You see people your age as pretty much set with their family and friends and not interested in taking a chance on including a new person, cause they really have nothing to gain.
Things have gotten to the point that people in meetings will not even say "hi, how's it going"? , "what's up?" or just even nod.
Consider the possibility that you are the one creating distance between yourself and others John. It might make you feel better to blame that distance on everyone else, but I don't believe it. There is a pattern here and it involves how you see other people. If I had to guess I'd say that you are afraid of relationships, or perhaps of rejection. If folks will not even say hello you must be giving off signals that you want to be left alone. But whatever the reason the common denominator in all this is you. In order to solve it you're going to have to look at your part in this pattern. If you don't I think you're going to stay stuck.
Things have gotten to the point that people in meetings will not even say "hi, how's it going"? , "what's up?" or just even nod.
Consider the possibility that you are the one creating distance between yourself and others John. It might make you feel better to blame that distance on everyone else, but I don't believe it. There is a pattern here and it involves how you see other people. If I had to guess I'd say that you are afraid of relationships, or perhaps of rejection. If folks will not even say hello you must be giving off signals that you want to be left alone. But whatever the reason the common denominator in all this is you. In order to solve it you're going to have to look at your part in this pattern. If you don't I think you're going to stay stuck.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
There's an old adage I was told a long time ago...................:
if I have a problem with one person, it could be them;
if I have a problem with two or three people, it could be them; However, if I have a problem with everybody (sic/hyperbole), I might want to take a closer look in the mirror.
(o:
if I have a problem with one person, it could be them;
if I have a problem with two or three people, it could be them; However, if I have a problem with everybody (sic/hyperbole), I might want to take a closer look in the mirror.
(o:
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