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hard forming friendships in AA

Old 06-30-2016, 08:14 PM
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hard forming friendships in AA

Does anyone have this problem?

I'm sure a lot of it is because I'm 38 years old and a guy, but in total I've done AA for about 2 years, in NYC. I feel like the comradery angle is talked up, but when you get down to it, it's like the men there don't know how to or don't wish to actually be friends with me beyond the I 'help you thereby help myself' variety.

I know what this must sound like, but I'm really not clingy. Nor do I care all that much. After a while though it just seems odd. I just think that in any environment that you devote so much time to, there should some friendships formed, some hint of that.

I've done a fair amount. Sometimes I can draw people out, but then they never reciprocate. Honestly, it sort of reminds me of a bar scene, but worse in this respect. Like people who don't quite get it. I still like it, don't get me wrong. And I am very open to the possibility that I don't get it, that there is something off about me. but now in any event I take the comradery aspect with a grain of salt. I have a friendly nature, but now I remind myself that trying to create these ties is not something I should focus on in AA.
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:20 AM
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I've felt that way in AA before, but not always. There are two things that bind people in the fellowship together: the common problem which is powerlessness over alcohol, and the common solution which is, as I understand it, a spiritual awakening as the result of the twelve steps. If either component is missing, it could be the reason you feel the way you do....maybe. Do you share at meetings? If so, is it only about the problem? Or do you share about the solution? The answer to this depends on where you are in your own recovery. I hope this is helpful.
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:37 AM
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do ya go out for coffee or a bite to eat before or after meetings with any members?
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:03 AM
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I came on this forum this morning with just this thought in my head, so I am glad to read what you wrote. When I lived in NYC I used to think it was the city atmosphere that made making friends hard. But now I have been all over the country and have found the same dynamic in many different places in AA. At the same time, I have been able to make some decent friendships with good people outside the rooms.

I think it is the nature of the condition, people with drinking problems have fears and insecurities and they can get in the way of forming healthy relationships. Yes, I bring my own issues and I do my best to work on them but in many ways the structure and dynamics of the recovery rooms can contribute to some serious dysfunctional behaviors and lots of avoidance of intimacy. These are just my thoughts and experiences, I have also wondered about the friendship hype as I have had many of the same experiences as you.
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:28 AM
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As suggested previously, if you haven't gone early or stayed after meetings yet, you should give that a try. Maybe volunteer to help set up the meeting, make coffee, etc.
Your problem is probably more common than you think, and you should try to not take it personally. I went through the exact same thing. Did everything I was told to do; get a sponsor, do the steps, etc. Tried hard to be accepted as part of the AA community for years and got nowhere. First, I would be very angry at the people for not giving me a chance even though I did everything I was told to do. Than I started getting angry at myself for not being able to find a way to make things work out. That was the worst, cause I'd leave the meetings absolutely hating myself.
Eventually, I realized it was nobody's fault. People are going to be themselves, and I did everything I could so it made no sense to beat on myself. Eventually, I had to just let it go and be ok with that. Some things just aren't meant to be.
Now I just go to the meetings and get the most I can out of them. I look at AA as a kind of fraternity. Many apply, but only a few are accepted.
I'm not suggesting you take the path I took. Making friends in AA is very important for anyone to stay sober and would of probably helped me avoid many of my relapses, so I hope you find a way to connect with the people there. Just wanted you to know you are not alone with this issue. Good Luck. John
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:37 AM
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I second what Reprieve stated about the fact that we alcoholics have issues already with forming healthy relationships because of our baggage and insecurities. What would be different about forming them within walls of an AA meeting? I had to tell myself this as well. I'm a loner by nature, and I thought that it was me that was the problem, too, when I didn't make friends as easily as I thought at meetings. In fact I stopped going because after a while I didn't feel like I fit in. So you're not the only one that feels like that.
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:56 AM
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These days I make friends easily outside the fellowship, and the majority of my friends are non alcoholic.

Within the fellowship I have a number of very close friends, but they would be a very small number over all.

When I think about it, the common ground we have is living in the solution. All my close friends are active in the program, practicing the steps, sponsoring, carrying the message. We have a strong bond.

Many come to AA and experience the spirit of the fellowship, but far fewer progress to join the fellowship of the spirit.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:12 AM
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I have felt the same way, but recently I have gone out to dinner with some new AA friends and I am going to continue to go to lunches and grab coffee with them. Also, there are alot of activities over the summer months that are planned for the entire city group. Do you have a sponsor who could introduce to some people in AA so you can build a support group?
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:20 AM
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I have made many friends in AA over the years.

I have lived in Tn for my entire sobriety, although I have also spent a good bit of time in Key West and among its recovering community.

I have not experienced what some of you are describing.

Sorry you all are, though.

My friendships include amigos in recovery and a fair amount of other folks I know through my line of work, the neighborhood, etc.

But, by all means, keep coming back.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:26 AM
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I think it is very possible to make good friends, but you have to try, and be proactive.

Don't think it's because you're 38 and a guy.

I slowly opened up to people I met at meetings - I am 130 days sober - and have begun to make good friends. One thing that has helped make them good friends is doing things outside of AA- yoga, dinner, sitting to talk somewhere after a meeting and enjoy getting to know each other (we already have stuff in common, so sharing that but also learning about the rest of each other).

Kinda like making friends anywhere, it is harder as an adult than it was in school or even at work. But I think people want connection, perhaps in AA even more because we are usually coming from places of solitude to some degree.

The suggestion of going to events is a good one, and recognizing others then introduce yourself....do you have a sponsor? Doing things- just a weekly meeting- can lead to meeting others he already knows.

I say hang in with it and try a few different "approaches"!
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:36 AM
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Thanks for the responses. Sometimes it seems ridiculous though. I could get into specific examples, and yeah, I've been very proactive, or at least relatively. I don't just sit there, inward drawn. Yes, sponsors, yes, after meeting cafes.

In any event, I'm brushing my shoulder off, not going to put myself out there anymore in this capacity. It's true, at least for me it's easier to form friendships with people outside of AA. They seem a little less...high maintenance. Maybe it's because alcoholics are inherently more selfish, as in, they keep the self to the self and it makes them miserable. It's everything or nothing. Total marriage or isolation. Maybe that's why I mention the gender thing. I know it's not true for everyone, but it seems like the women in the meetings are a little more casual with each other. Like it's not a zero sum game between weirdness and wife hunting.

Anyhow.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:48 AM
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I think the emphasis on confrontation and tough love can make it hard to get close to people in the program. I know I feel like I have to censor myself and walk on eggshells when speaking with people from the program, so it is hard to have the honesty and spontaneity that is part of building the bond of friendship.

As my sponsor once told me, you do not join AA, NA, etc to make friends. Looking outside the program for people you have common interests with might be a better option.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:00 AM
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hi davaidavai -- I'm a woman and had much the same experience as you. I followed all the suggestions -- sponsor, step work, I had a service position (secretary'd a meeting for 6 months), invited people for coffee, joined when others invited, said hello to newcomers & gave my phone number. After 16 months I really had not developed friendships -- there were a couple of women I could text or call, but they did not become friends to hang out with.

The hope of friendships had kept me participating, even after I felt the "dogma" was no longer helping my recovery move forward. I know that AA doesn't promise friendships per se, so I let go of that expectation. I'm an occasional visitor, and still practice the principles as I understand them, but I'm not involved in the way I was before.

AA is a lifeline ... but in my experience it doesn't answer my needs in every area, it takes effort outside the fellowship for that.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:45 AM
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Yeah i think i have just reached the saturation point where i accept it on its own terms. I thought it might be a guy thing. They say we are worse at friendship forming. Really inhibited people, no wonder they drank. Lately ive noticed how inhibited i a: inhibited by the mind part of my brain. I theorize. I put things in boxes. After a while it is hard not to but i think it has been bad for the feeling part of me and is not the part of my brain i should be listening to right now. The feeling part saus that these petty politics and proscriptions are not the way forward.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:07 PM
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"We are people who would not ordinarily mix".....I have one lady friend in AA at almost a year sober. I'm lucky to have her..she's a bit of a loner introvert like me. Also there aren't many there my age. I don't fit the usual mold, I call it in AA. Therefore I'm treated differently, but I have to be true to myself, I won't be in a cult-like organization or brainwashed. So, I'm caring and friendly but only have one AA quality friendship.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by davaidavai View Post
Does anyone have this problem?
I'm so glad you posted this. My home group is very hands-off in that they don't want you to depend too much on a sponsor. On the one hand, I get it, so as not to build a co-dependent relationship but on the other hand, I guess I assumed friendships would develop with people who had similar life experiences.

My sponsor and the other sponsors in my group don't socialize. They all have their own families, friends, outside lives...

I tried a few times to socialize with other newcomers who were working the steps at the same time I was, but it never seemed to last, which then made me feel worse about myself. I think my therapist was hoping I'd make friends in AA but it just hasn't happened.

I'm sure a lot of it is because I'm 38 years old and a guy, but in total I've done AA for about 2 years, in NYC. I feel like the comradery angle is talked up, but when you get down to it, it's like the men there don't know how to or don't wish to actually be friends with me beyond the I 'help you thereby help myself' variety.
I don't think age or sex has anything to do with it, unless you mean that the younger people in their teens and 20s seem to be making friends easier?

Yes same here....the women will help but they don't want to actually be friends. Which makes me wonder, how am I supposed to find other friends who don't drink?? It's as if my social life has actually decreased. Then again, I can understand people in AA wanting to set boundaries as a way of self-protection and just being in AA to help others.

I know what this must sound like, but I'm really not clingy. Nor do I care all that much. After a while though it just seems odd. I just think that in any environment that you devote so much time to, there should some friendships formed, some hint of that.
You are not coming across as clingy. I also thought I'd see more friendships develop in a format like AA because we all have that in common.

I've done a fair amount. Sometimes I can draw people out, but then they never reciprocate. Honestly, it sort of reminds me of a bar scene, but worse in this respect. Like people who don't quite get it. I still like it, don't get me wrong. And I am very open to the possibility that I don't get it, that there is something off about me. but now in any event I take the comradery aspect with a grain of salt. I have a friendly nature, but now I remind myself that trying to create these ties is not something I should focus on in AA.
I sometimes wonder, too, that there's something off about me. In fact I keep meaning to ask my sponsor about that. But honestly I don't think that's it, no matter how much my self-absorbed, less than, ego tries to tell me that it is. I think it's that people live extremely private lives. I remember friending people on facebook from AA and only one of like 10 accepted. My sponsor told me that people don't want to friend people from AA because that's private. So maybe that's it. It's a shame, really, because that just proves that the stigma still exists out there.

I don't focus on it, either. I focus on my step work. But that doesn't mean I'm not sad that I can't be friends with a lot of the people I see every week.

As I'm typing this to you, I now think it's a matter of people in AA trying to remain private. They don't want to mix their AA/recovery life with their social life.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:32 PM
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An hour a day I can walk into a room full of people like me and give hugs, handshakes, laugh, cry, listen and share. At least 8 hours a week +

Before meeting there's hello's and banter for 10-15 minutes and afterwards occasional lunch or coffee. Once in awhile I'll catch up outside the rooms with a friend - go to ball game, etc. Not often.

I do text and have 75 + numbers of friends. Most of those I asked for. I have a plethora of folks I can reach out to and just say hi.

Making friends was never my strong suit - but today, I think it's how I view things, As with my recovery, it seems to be my perceptions that change - not my expectations of others. Inside the rooms or outside.

Ran into a few folks at the local gym - now take a class with one. Helping others creates friendships as well............

Regardless of all that - even when I am by myself, I just no longer feel alone.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:58 PM
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Fly N Buy, that's cool. Glad it's working for you. My infrastructure isn't as intense, and it may just be impatience. I've been back for 4 months and previously only had a year and a half. For me that kind of situation, having tons of numbers, going out after, etc., feels like a structured interaction that stops short of actual friendship. That's not to say that it isn't good. It definitely feeds a need. Speaking purely for myself. I probably wasn't as energetic as you.

Centered3: yeah, you're probably right about privacy. But there is something more going on too. Maybe something less remarkable and more cultural or relative to the human condition.

Oldsoul112249: yes I relate to being different.

I think this dynamic though is something that precludes me making AA a way of life. I tried, sort of, to do that. My efforts varied in intensity over time. I tried to make a meeting 3 or 4 times a week, did 90 in 90, sometimes went to 2 or 3 in a day, sought sponsors, got a sponsor, worked the steps. I had profound spiritual experiences and epiphanies. I still have epiphanies. But I know I'll keep returning to this sort of irritation and awareness. These relationships aren't real. I guess at bottom it's the irritation of a lonely person who doesn't have much going on outside AA. I think I have done a poor job representing who I am in life and being that person. But it feels healthy, in accord with my intuition, to define my relationship here with the program and the organization. Probably many others have.
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:56 PM
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Yeah davaidavai, I know what you mean about the irritation of not being able to connect with people in AA when you don't have much going on outside AA. Friendships do develop in AA. I've heard people talk about getting together to go here and do that, so it does happen. These people usually stick with themselves and don't seem open to including new people. I hate to admit it, but I will probably hold some resentments towards AA because of all the work I put into trying to be included and being turned away so many times. There's a difference between accepting AA on AA's terms. That's easy. But the feeling of rejection goes much deeper than that. Hopefully, you can rise above the disappointments you have endured better than I have. Not a healthy place to be. John
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:33 PM
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Where I am living currently is a small-ish city and I was surprised that people seemed so welcoming and friendly. My experience in AA has not been so welcoming and alot like people describe above. Having said that, I do consider a couple of women to be good friends and some men and so while I may have been complaining above I really do have some decent relationships in the rooms here. : )

But - I think the common thread for us friends is that we are very infrequent attendees at the meetings and we don't share much in the rooms. We talk privately outside the rooms, that's where we have our relationships. There are definitely people who attend almost all the meetings and are all about being "Mr AA" or "Ms AA" and they seem to look all awesome and shiny on the outside and can quote page and verse. But they also seem lonely and maybe use the rooms as a way to be important. I know that doesn't sound very nice but - it's just my own observation. Some of them are kind of mean really.

My first sponsor told me that you come to the rooms to get healthy, not to live there. Good advice. Davaiddavai, you might really be just fine and doing ok and so enjoy what you can and just let go of the rest. I came here with zero expectations and so making some friends has been a real gift.
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