sugarbear1

Clubhouses aren't AA. AA meetings can be held in a clubhouse.

The $1 we put in the basket is for rent, utilities, and coffee (creamer, sugar, cups, paper towels, etc).

AA makes very little money....

2muchpain

I think the other things like sofas, TV's, etc. come from donations. John

geldofc

Yeah I don't get the impression AA is a place to make friends that go outside the meetings, unless you make an effort as other people said, to go to lunch and stuff.

Places to meet friends would be at jobs, clubs, school. Whatever normal social gatherings IMO.

2muchpain

If what your saying true, than I think it's misleading for members to talk about all the friends they have might since joining AA. John

oldsoul112249

I would be very careful. Don't assume everyone in AA is serious about the steps and getting sober. I was misled by one of these for 2 months. Just friends..a woman like me eventually admitted she was going for her family. She finally decided all AA's didn't believe in the real God and were going to burn in hell and is going to get sober in church. Oh well...I've learned a lot. I wish her well.

awuh1

Confrontation and tough love are NOT an emphasis in AA geldofc. Not unless you're saying lots of things that are untrue, like, "there is an emphasis on tough love and confrontation in AA". When misleading and unhelpful things things are said, the situation cries out for correction. Often the one who is corrected interprets this as confrontation rather than a chance to learn how they may have gotten it wrong .

I have made many friends in AA over the years. Just like anywhere else that I go I find that there are people in AA who I like and others that I don't.

I believe the ability to make friends relies on your willingness to be one.

2muchpain

Not sure what it means to be willing to be a friend, but it sounds nice. John

awuh1

Glad you asked 2muchpain. IMO the willingness to be a friend means taking ACTIONS which have no anticipated reward connected to them. It involves giving. It means doing things like approaching someone after a meeting to say "I really liked what you had to say tonight" (and meaning it) or comforting someone who is in pain. Its doing these sorts of things without a thought for how that gesture might someday be of benefit.

This is a VERY difficult thing for people who have been living their life with feel-good-now as the central guiding principle. Yet, these acts of selfless giving result in... well.... I guess you'll have to try it and see for yourself.

Grungehead

I agree strongly with this statement. And to be honest, in my previous attempts at AA I believe I was incapable of being a friend to others. I came into the rooms with a lot of anger, pride and ego, and a lot of that anger was directed inward. It's pretty hard to have the qualities that make a good friend when you don't even like yourself. I'm pretty sure I sent out a lot of negative vibes towards others whether I intended to or not.

This time around I think that coming back utterly defeated allowed me to let go of that anger/pride/ego out of desperation to find the help I needed. I had come to the realization that there probably wasn't going to be another "next time". For whatever reason other members seemed more receptive towards me, and I towards them, having swallowed my pride and actively reaching out for help.

KarenOskie

This is all good reading for me. I get really anxious around people. I'm working on it, and these posts help a lot.

2muchpain

awuh1
That's what I thought you meant. Seems like I didn't miss anything. Been there, done that. So what would you suggest when you offer to help but get turned down or just ignored. I'm really just curious. John

awuh1

2muchpain, Everyone should have the right of refusal when offered help. Accepting their response shows a basic respect for them as an individual and is, in itself, a sort of gift.

Follow up by looking twice as hard for somewhere else to do some good.

Gottalife

Hi John. I can understand how you might feel. Your posts on this subject have been on my mind for a while and I have not been able to come up with much in the way of a satisfactory answer.

I wise man told me the other day that we are in the "effort" business, while God is in charge of the "results" business. I notice in AA, the ones who get well and stay well seem to be the ones putting in the effort, trying to work with others.

Whether the others respond or turn their backs does not seem to be relavent in terms of whether the person offering to help will stay well or not.

In a way the big book tells us to expect this sort of thing when it suggests we don't waste time on those who don't want what we have because, if we look hard enough we are sure to find someone who will eagerly accept what we have to offer.

The definition of a friend plays on my mind a little too. I have a good number of friends outside of AA. That is where my social life is.

But I probably have a few hundred thousand friends I have not yet met in AA, all around the world, who would drop everything and help me if I ran into serious problems with my alcoholism, as I would for them. They might not go to dinner with me, but they would do all in their power to save my life. That's a pretty good friend.

2muchpain

Nice post Mike. Thanks!!!! Much of what you said rings true for me. This issue has been a thorn in my side for years now, so I probably shouldn't waste my time or others here on this thorn problem I have. I guess I was still hoping there was something I've missed that might make a difference. But the same answer always comes back, no. Unfortunately, my social life consists of someone a talk to that lives out of state and a few guys I talk to at the gym. No family in the area. My work is not condusive to developing a social life and I live in an apartment where everybody stays to themselves. I could do volunteer work, but keep putting that off and I've got to take responsibility for that. Thanks again for your caring post. Some things won't change no matter how much work you put into it. Just gotta accept that. Have a great day. John

2muchpain

I knew a guy at another AA meeting. Old, cranky guy. People at AA got worried about him because he wasn't showing up and lived alone and went over to his place to see how he was doing. Found him on his couch dead. Turned out he had a heart attack. People worried about the guy and dropped by.
Another time, another guy who was going to the same meeting turned up very drunk. I found him on a couch inside the meeting placed. He managed to tell me he was about to leave. Worried about this guy, I asked a few people that were setting up for the meeting what I should do, cause I was worried this guy would stumble out in the street and get hit by a car. The told me not to worry about it and leave him alone. Couldn't do that, so called for an ambulance and they took him away. He showed up a few weeks later much better. One of the guys that told me to just leave him alone was that cranky guy. I know there's a moral to this story but not sure what it is. Maybe it's that this old guy had his friends and didn't care about anybody else. He was set. Didn't care about anybody else outside his circle. Didn't care about this guy. Maybe the moral is that the people in AA should care about everybody there.
My doctor once listed all the things that could kill me if I kept drinking, like just stopping breathing, vomiting and suffocating, heart attack, seriously injuring myself and that in my situation, If I had a problem nobody would know that I needed help and would die, and he's right. At that same meeting, I gave my number out to many people. Went out of town for a few weeks, Didn't get one call. When I got back and went to that meeting, one guy came up to me pretty angry because he was broke and needed money. True story.
It's not about making friends. It's about caring. John

2muchpain

Just thought about this. Maybe the moral of my story is that maybe it's not the people at AA that make AA what it is. AA is bigger than the people that go there. It's what AA stands for. John

awuh1

I think you have that exactly right 2muchpain. It's an essential distinction. The people in AA (as well as their beliefs, thoughts and their behaviors) are not AA. When people start equating the people in the program with AA program itself there comes all sorts of misunderstanding.

It's a little like going to church and dismissing the sermon because you know that the person sitting in the next pew committed some terrible sin.

AA is about recovering from alcoholism, not about making friends (tho it's nice to do this, and it's the subject of this thread).

Condemn the “sin” not the sinner. A person is not synonymous with their behavior.

fini

John, it does sound like you've encountered and keep encountering a lot of plain rude people there. not making opening in a circle, that kind of thing...seems deliberately exclusionary. and i'd have a hard time with that.
in fact, the only time that happened to me in AA was a couple of years ago. i was new to a meeting, came five minutes early, six men were sitting around the table, chatting. when i walked in, i said "hello" and they all stopped chatting, all looked at me, were quiet, and then went back to chatting. so i stood there, took up my courage, said "hi guys" and sat down.

they ignored me.
the one who sat across from me looked at me, shook his head and mumbled "i couldn't have done what you just did!" with that weird admiration in his voice/on his face.

i stayed for that meeting.

but i never went back.

they don't have what i want. or if they do, somewhere secreted away, the wall they've built is too thick.

i don't need handholding or too much pleasantness, but i do want to be treated with common courtesy.

i don't expect to form friendships at AA, so it's come as a big surprise that i seem to have done so twice now

davaidavai

This is the world we live in. Some people are gracious, others rude. Some are grown up; others are childish. Some are open; others are afraid. Some take leaps, others tentatively follow. And people are drawn to and gravitate toward others for reasons and for qualities they themselves don't necessarily exhibit or care to admit. We are welcoming; we are exclusionary. We are expansive and biased. The challenge is to accept this multiplicity of traits and experiences while remaining the person you wish to be. It is a challenge indeed not to be molded by and shaped by cultures, by microaggressions, by behaviors; and a challenge as well to see one's self clearly and to accept the situation. I think it means the difference between having volition or becoming trapped. You owe it to yourself to learn to navigate this environment. Accepting what we cannot change and having the courage to change what we can is a practice not without a painful learning curve. It's hard, harrowing work particularly for the sensitive or for people without social ease or who for whatever reason beckon a less than positive experience. There is every shade and every hue of experience.

Ken33xx

That's a given and I think we all understand this.

However, the "lets pretend we're all friends" vibe some in AA like to pass around can be misleading because it's often not real.

All I can suggest is not to take things too personally in AA.

I used to think, "Oh no, I shouldn't have said that in my share!"

However, once I realized many in the room are often preoccupied in their own thoughts there's not much to worry about.

After the meetings some members like to take off right away. They don't care to stand around and chat.

Me? I like to at least say hi and make some sort of limited contact but if I don't so be it.

Not a big deal.

If I don't feel comfortable at a meeting I just don't return.

Fortunately, I've always lived in areas where there are at least two or three meetings per day.