The 5th Step question

[s4s]

I need some help understanding this. I understand that working the steps is important, but I also hear "take what you want and leave the rest". But also hear that everyone needs to work the steps and follow them or else . . .

I have done the 4th step. Even done the 5th as far as admitting to myself and God. I even sat down and had an outloud chat with God. I have to say that the 4th step was where my real change happened. I was a closet drinker and felt so bad about myself--that once I wrote it all down--the resentments, the guilt ect--I looked at it--and realized I really was not a bad person. OK--so I got some defects to work on, but nothing earthshattering that I can not deal with. In this turn around I was able to start seeing the great things in life and how truly blessed I am. My question is why do I have to sit down with someone and go through all the garbage? Seems quite negative to me. And even though I know I would live through it, I just do not see the benefit.

Then the part I really struggle with is then going around to everyone and apologizing. Number one being a closet drinker there is a limited number of people I hurt. And I have had conversations with them, said I was sorry and feel my side of the street is clear. Do I have to do it again--to the same people? As well, I am not going to go call up a boyfriend I had 10 years ago and apologize, or girls that I went to high school with 15 years ago.

My sponsor says that I have to do the 5th step with someone. No reason other than follow the steps because it is the best way. She is a caring person with 16 years sobriety and I do trust her. But this 5th and 9th step just seem a little ridiculous to me.

As well, I do regret the past. Isn't his normal for someone who spent 10 years closet drinking. I regret the lost time most of all.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[ted]

HEY S4S,I THINK THE STEPS ARE FOR A REASON.
COUNTLESS OTHERS DID IT THAT WAY AND GOT GOOD RESULTS.
LIKE IS SAID WE MUST BE HONEST,OPENMINDED,AND WILLING.
I TRIED HANDLING LIFE MY WAY,I GOT NOTHING BUT WASTED.
JUST MY OPINION.....ted

[best]

I can tell you the water feels great in the pool. Till you jump in and feel it for yourself, you won't know the full feeling. The steps work that way... till you try them for yourself, you don't fully know where they can and will help.
As far as going back and finding that old boyfriend or the girls in school from 15 years ago... personally I let life guide me there. 2 people from highschool that if I ran across them today I would tell them how much of an infulence on my life they were and how sorry I am for my actions towards them. How I look at it... if my going up to another would cause more problems then it would solve... I talk with God on those. An extrem example would be... asking a husband for forgiveness for having slept with his wife. That would cause more problems then it would fix. Common sense and as life allows is how I work the steps.

[didimay]

S4S
Hi there,
There is a reason for the steps, that's probably why I went back to drinking. I never did the steps like I should have. (honestly). So after 10 years of sobriety, I experimented for 2 years (I thought I was cured) and now I'm going on my 3rd month. YEAH!! I feel that you'll do a great job. 1) you're questioning what your doing, that makes you intelligent 2) You want it that bad.
DidiMay
"In Gods Time" all will happen

[MootPoint]

Personally, I didn't feel relieved of the cr@p brought out in my 4th until I did my 5th with another person. Then I felt free of it.

I am doing the 9th right now and feel freedom from my wrongs after I have apologized. I, too, have few amends because I did my drinking and drugging at home. There are some amends that I don't "feel" yet, so I haven't done them. I still feel to be the victim. I can hardly wait until this victim feeling has been lifted from me and I can cleanly do those amends...... I talk to my sponsor about it and pray.

I believe this feeling of freedom to be the "cleaning of house" that Steps 5 and 9 are referring to.

I don't have enough sobriety to speak with any authority on anything. So, please just take my words as personal experience. And...... go talk to your sponsor!

Where's Music when you need him

[3legacy]

Having another human help sift through the garbage leads to True Humility! Solitary self-appraisal seldom suffices.

(((((((((s4s)))))))))
Kiss Heart of Spirit In Love & Service

[splendra]

s4s-

The fact that you were as you say a closet drinker is a good reason to share with another human being it will teach you to reach out instead of going back to the closet.
Don't worry about the 9th step until you get there. big 4 you

[Wisconsin_Al]

Hi s4s

I do not post often but yours got my attention. My comments are sincere and not meant to judge.

The first thought that came to me when I read your post was “At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way� (Chapter 5 Big Book). It is interesting you question the value of the two steps that are the most difficult and require the most human interaction.

Steps 5 and 9 are meant to be humbling, and that is not in a negative way. Expressing yourself to another human being and doing amends to those harmed is a “freeing� experience difficult to explain to those that have not done so.

Yes the steps are “Suggestions� not rules; but being only suggestions does not diminish their value. Yes you can pick and choose the ones you want but I believe that a tricky thing to do and potentially risky.

My personal experience has taught me, without the full 12 steps I would either 1 – Be drinking again or 2 – Be dry but not have a quality sobriety.

So what have you got to lose except your old ways? Give it a try.

[Patsyd1]

Originally Posted by s4s

I need some help understanding this. I understand that working the steps is important, but I also hear "take what you want and leave the rest". But also hear that everyone needs to work the steps and follow them or else . . .

I have done the 4th step. Even done the 5th as far as admitting to myself and God. I even sat down and had an outloud chat with God. I have to say that the 4th step was where my real change happened. I was a closet drinker and felt so bad about myself--that once I wrote it all down--the resentments, the guilt ect--I looked at it--and realized I really was not a bad person. OK--so I got some defects to work on, but nothing earthshattering that I can not deal with. In this turn around I was able to start seeing the great things in life and how truly blessed I am. My question is why do I have to sit down with someone and go through all the garbage? Seems quite negative to me. And even though I know I would live through it, I just do not see the benefit.

Then the part I really struggle with is then going around to everyone and apologizing. Number one being a closet drinker there is a limited number of people I hurt. And I have had conversations with them, said I was sorry and feel my side of the street is clear. Do I have to do it again--to the same people? As well, I am not going to go call up a boyfriend I had 10 years ago and apologize, or girls that I went to high school with 15 years ago.

My sponsor says that I have to do the 5th step with someone. No reason other than follow the steps because it is the best way. She is a caring person with 16 years sobriety and I do trust her. But this 5th and 9th step just seem a little ridiculous to me.

As well, I do regret the past. Isn't his normal for someone who spent 10 years closet drinking. I regret the lost time most of all.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Hi s4s,

The 4th step isn't just about finding out who one has hurt, its about getting down to conditions and causes, its about getting honest about who we brought through those doors of AA. Its about looking at the REALITY of who we are, who we REALLY ARE. The 5th step is vital, its vital that we find someone who knows what we are trying to accomplish.

"Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs"

Its not enough to admit to God and to ourselves.... we also talk with someone who has a working knowledge of the 5th step. The 5th step is so vital because we get down to conditions and causes. If we are not able to speak with someone who has a working knowledge of the 4th and 5th step, then we are still depending on OURSELVES for the answers. And if you go to any mirror, you will find out why thats not enough, its OUR WAY that got us here, and its our way that will keep us sick and suffering on the inside.

I noticed that you shared that you have apologized to some already, without a 5th step, 6th step, 7th and 8th step. Seems that you are leaving some other vital steps out of your own recovery.

This is YOUR recovery, and if you have jumped to the 9th step without getting down to conditions and causes, seems to me that the inevitable is sitting there and just waiting. If we are not willing to do the work, then it all comes back again and we will continue to do the same things over and over again.

No one is here to hurt you. The Steps are layed out in order for a reason. I would like to ask you something if you don't mind.

Has doing it YOUR WAY worked for you while running your own life?

It really doesn't matter what we think when we begin to "think" that we can do it our way, the easier softer way. Whats important is be honest, and ask yourself the most important question that there is when working ALL the steps......... Has it ever worked your way? Any alcoholic can easily answer that question..... what we need to answer that question is HONESTY, OPENMINDEDNESS AND WILLINGNESS.

Yes you can do it your way if you choose to, there is no one that is going to stop you from taking the easier and softer way out. Ofcourse that is one of the causes and conditions that got us here in the first place.....NO?

I would suggest to do the Steps the way they are layed out in the Big Book, to change the person that you brought through those doors of AA, we have to be honest about who that person is first.

The 5th Step is a vital Step. Without that Step we are still running on self-will alone.

I would suggest going back to the First Step, Second Step and 3rd Step, with your sponsor's guidance.

Page 83 in the Big Book:

"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development,
we will be amazed before we are half way
through. We are going to know a new freedom and a
new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to
shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity
and we will know peace. No matter how
far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our
experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness
and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest
in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking
will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook
upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic
insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know
how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We
will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we
could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They
are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly,
sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we
work for them."



God Bless
Patsy

[JennieB]

I wasn't a closet drinker but I had a beer miester in the bedroom - close enough! lol My point is, I didn't go out and stick anyone up, or murder anyone either. I worked 2 jobs. I was reliable, functional. I never got a DUI, no accidents. NOTHING. I came into the rooms because I felt miserable, inside and out. I had not harmed many people as I only had a few friends plus my boyfriend...oh and the bar stool "friends". I couldn't look at myself in the mirror because I was so disgusted with myself, yet I didn't know why. I did my 4th and 5th because I wanted what every one else had. They looked happy. So...I did it. Upon doing so, I learned that I was not a daughter, a sister, a best friend while I was active. I was, but only to a degree. For that, I had to make amends to my mom, and brother. A few others here and there. Most importantly, I had to forgive myself for taking a wrong turn in life. Today I have no regrets. I have apologized to the ones I remembered I had hurt. And if more come up, I'll do more work. Someone had mentioned making amends when you see the friends from 10 years ago. I agree with that - waiting until/if you run into them. You don't want to be some kind of a stalker! lol
Good luck with everything.

[Cap3]

Take what ya want and leave the rest.BB,,how it works.Rarely have we seen a person fail,who has ...thoroughly...followed....our path.Personally there was a few things that i wanted to take out too,in my beginning,of recovery.But,ya know that was me.Always me,wanting to change something,no matter what i was being taught,or learning.Follow?Now that was anew one for me.However if,i wanted recovery,i need to be willing to go to ...any...all lenghts,for recovery.I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired.I wanted change.And so,i followed the steps one by one with my sponsor.There is something to be said about telling another.Steps 4 and 5.When i tell,another i cant take it back.its out there in the light.I dont know about you,but i can tell myself alot of things.I can change it,to what feels good to me.rather than being totally honest..I can lie to myself,,and have done for many years,before program,,saying to self,,what feels good to self.If im feeling yuky,,there is a reason for it.And no i dont have to have done something,,,big.,or compare it to what others have done.Im feeling the feeling,,and need to work onto the why,,cause and conditions,,as Patsy has shared..Honesty..Openmindness.Willingness,,those are the keys..When i tell another,,its out there.Truth..Not a burden to me.Im not holding secrets anymore..
Stpe 9...good judgement.a careful sence of timing,courage.and prudence .these are the qualities we shall need when we take step 9.read step 9,,very carefully.And go over it with your sponsor. growing pains..Yupper,.If i do take what i want to and leave the rest,i may be taking out the things that are going to help me to change.
Thanks for letting me share,,my opinons,,and experiences,,
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!

[Patsyd1]

Originally Posted by Cap3

Take what ya want and leave the rest.BB,,how it works.Rarely have we seen a person fail,who has ...thoroughly...followed....our path.Personally there was a few things that i wanted to take out too,in my beginning,of recovery.But,ya know that was me.Always me,wanting to change something,no matter what i was being taught,or learning.Follow?Now that was anew one for me.However if,i wanted recovery,i need to be willing to go to ...any...all lenghts,for recovery.I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired.I wanted change.And so,i followed the steps one by one with my sponsor.There is something to be said about telling another.Steps 4 and 5.When i tell,another i cant take it back.its out there in the light.I dont know about you,but i can tell myself alot of things.I can change it,to what feels good to me.rather than being totally honest..I can lie to myself,,and have done for many years,before program,,saying to self,,what feels good to self.If im feeling yuky,,there is a reason for it.And no i dont have to have done something,,,big.,or compare it to what others have done.Im feeling the feeling,,and need to work onto the why,,cause and conditions,,as Patsy has shared..Honesty..Openmindness.Willingness,,those are the keys..When i tell another,,its out there.Truth..Not a burden to me.Im not holding secrets anymore..
Stpe 9...good judgement.a careful sence of timing,courage.and prudence .these are the qualities we shall need when we take step 9.read step 9,,very carefully.And go over it with your sponsor. growing pains..Yupper,.If i do take what i want to and leave the rest,i may be taking out the things that are going to help me to change.
Thanks for letting me share,,my opinons,,and experiences,,
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!

Hey ((((((((Cap)))))))))))) great message that you carry, and thanks for sharing it

Its so good to see you, I have always admired your sobriety and your recovery....... honesty, openmindedness and willingness, have always been the message that you carry and pass on.

Thank you and I just love ya

[HarryH]

s4s, This is a simple program, but nobody ever told me it would be easy. I appreciate the honesty that is shared in this post. There is a new way to live, if you want it, and you will find it in the 12 Steps of Recovery.

I have been through the process of the 12 Steps with a loving God and a sponsor that has been through the process, as laid out in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, the same way the first 100 had done it.

For me, before I got to the 4th Step, I had to do 3 Steps before it. Which were important steps leading to the 4th and the 5th. And for me, the 3rd Step was probably the most important. I had to make a decision, and it had to be an honest decision. Either God is everything or He isn't. I surrended to God. I surrended in order to become free.

The 4th Step I had to get thoroughly honest with myself and I found out the truth about Harry. And the blame game was about to stop. In the 5th Step I learned about getting humble, very humble, and how to "Let go and Let God."
By admitting to myself and another human, the exact nature of my wrongs, allowed me to rid myself of all that garbage that I swore I was going to take to the grave with me, and let God have it. And my sponsor told me when I was done with the 5th Step, that God has all that garbage in the Big Dumpster in the sky, and He was not going to give it back to me no matter how much I begged for it. Which insured me of the freedom I was about to learn about.

The process of the Steps does not stop there for me though, I have to live all the 12 Steps in my life on a daily basis.

Today, I am joyous, happy and free. You can have the same if you want it.

God bless,

Harry

[Patsyd1]

Originally Posted by HarryH

s4s, This is a simple program, but nobody ever told me it would be easy. I appreciate the honesty that is shared in this post. There is a new way to live, if you want it, and you will find it in the 12 Steps of Recovery.

I have been through the process of the 12 Steps with a loving God and a sponsor that has been through the process, as laid out in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, the same way the first 100 had done it.

For me, before I got to the 4th Step, I had to do 3 Steps before it. Which were important steps leading to the 4th and the 5th. And for me, the 3rd Step was probably the most important. I had to make a decision, and it had to be an honest decision. Either God is everything or He isn't. I surrended to God. I surrended in order to become free.

The 4th Step I had to get thoroughly honest with myself and I found out the truth about Harry. And the blame game was about to stop. In the 5th Step I learned about getting humble, very humble, and how to "Let go and Let God."
By admitting to myself and another human, the exact nature of my wrongs, allowed me to rid myself of all that garbage that I swore I was going to take to the grave with me, and let God have it. And my sponsor told me when I was done with the 5th Step, that God has all that garbage in the Big Dumpster in the sky, and He was not going to give it back to me no matter how much I begged for it. Which insured me of the freedom I was about to learn about.

The process of the Steps does not stop there for me though, I have to live all the 12 Steps in my life on a daily basis.

Today, I am joyous, happy and free. You can have the same if you want it.

God bless,

Harry

((((((((Harry))))))))))) its so good to see you and to hear your ES&H

Who loves ya baby?