Discussion after meeting - folks Split on Opinions
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Discussion after meeting - folks Split on Opinions
After a meeting yesterday, people seemed pretty much split on this. It was interesting for me to observe. Here was this woman's dilemma:
You're sitting in a restaurant. You are at this restaurant fairly often. You have come to be familiar with the owner and the staff and they recognize you and say hello when you walk in.
One day, you observe that a bus boy is taking tips here and there off a few of the tables. He's pocketing them. It's busy, so it goes unnoticed by everyone but you. This happens on more than one day.
As an AA member, would you tell someone about it?
I know what I would do. The room was split on their opinions about what they would do. It became quite a discussion. I'm interested in what your thoughts are. Would you say something or not?
You're sitting in a restaurant. You are at this restaurant fairly often. You have come to be familiar with the owner and the staff and they recognize you and say hello when you walk in.
One day, you observe that a bus boy is taking tips here and there off a few of the tables. He's pocketing them. It's busy, so it goes unnoticed by everyone but you. This happens on more than one day.
As an AA member, would you tell someone about it?
I know what I would do. The room was split on their opinions about what they would do. It became quite a discussion. I'm interested in what your thoughts are. Would you say something or not?
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
If the owner or any of the staff were a friend I would speak to them about it. If not I would do nothing. I know that sounds all-kinds-of wrong but.... I would feel more for the wait-staff who are getting stiffed.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I wouldn't do anything. Some restaurants pool tips and some have a percentage divide per hour. Maybe he's supposed to do that. It's none of my business. If a server can't keep a better eye on their tables, that's on them. I don't think any busser would get away with theft for long - like maybe an hour.
OT - I was a server for years. One night I saw a customer pick up my $5 off a table. I followed him out and asked for it back (all kinds of a no-no, but I was mad!) At first he denied it. It was right outside the door, so people were coming and going and could overhear. Then I said, "I'm going to call the police."
He gave it back. Jerk.
OT - I was a server for years. One night I saw a customer pick up my $5 off a table. I followed him out and asked for it back (all kinds of a no-no, but I was mad!) At first he denied it. It was right outside the door, so people were coming and going and could overhear. Then I said, "I'm going to call the police."
He gave it back. Jerk.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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My thought was "It's none of my business."
And this morning I woke up and remembered that when I use to waitress some places pooled tips and that could be what was going on. If I were the lady and had decided to tattle, I might have found that for that reason or another, I might have stepped where I don't belong, then I would've felt like the wrong one because I would've been.
This is why AA gives us principles to live by. All we have to do is follow them and things work out.
I am not running the universe, I am not the Sherrif or State Police of the world.
I also thought of a TV show called "What Would You Do?" Where they set people up in situations like that to see how they'd react. Most people come in and try control stuff.
Members of AA aren't most people. We have been invited to AA to ultimately help God, especially during these pivotal times He is counting on us. That's why AA is a social movement. The paradox of AA is we were the down and out, the desperate, the hopeless...the shunned, the disillusioned. Then we get here, learn principles, and become Saints. Another paradox. We can help where no one else can.
We have the Power to change the world.
And this morning I woke up and remembered that when I use to waitress some places pooled tips and that could be what was going on. If I were the lady and had decided to tattle, I might have found that for that reason or another, I might have stepped where I don't belong, then I would've felt like the wrong one because I would've been.
This is why AA gives us principles to live by. All we have to do is follow them and things work out.
I am not running the universe, I am not the Sherrif or State Police of the world.
I also thought of a TV show called "What Would You Do?" Where they set people up in situations like that to see how they'd react. Most people come in and try control stuff.
Members of AA aren't most people. We have been invited to AA to ultimately help God, especially during these pivotal times He is counting on us. That's why AA is a social movement. The paradox of AA is we were the down and out, the desperate, the hopeless...the shunned, the disillusioned. Then we get here, learn principles, and become Saints. Another paradox. We can help where no one else can.
We have the Power to change the world.
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted by WMJ1012 
Members of AA aren't most people. We have been invited to AA to ultimately help God, especially during these pivotal times He is counting on us. That's why AA is a social movement. The paradox of AA is we were the down and out, the desperate, the hopeless...the shunned, the disillusioned. Then we get here, learn principles, and become Saints. Another paradox. We can help where no one else can.
We have the Power to change the world.
As for the being saints...well, as it tells us in How it Works...
"No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection." pg. 60. (bold mine)
My job is to align my will with His.
But certainly we can help where others may not be able to. One alcoholic working with another.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
what is a bus boy ?
over in the uk we leave a tip to the person who served us and it goes into there pocket some restaurants ask do you want to tip the staff and put an extra on the bill but i never do that as i dont trust them to give the extra to the staff
anyway i have no idea what a bus boy is ? why shouldnt he pocket a tip if he is serving you ? as its how it works over here in the uk
over in the uk we leave a tip to the person who served us and it goes into there pocket some restaurants ask do you want to tip the staff and put an extra on the bill but i never do that as i dont trust them to give the extra to the staff
anyway i have no idea what a bus boy is ? why shouldnt he pocket a tip if he is serving you ? as its how it works over here in the uk
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Originally Posted by paul99
I am careful to put myself separate from others, in terms of AA and non-AA. While we certainly are laypeople with an understanding of alcoholism and the steps needed to be recovered, and have a special kinship re: fellowship, I am still as much "most" people as they come. Dr. Silkworth talks about the psychology of alcoholics as not being any different than those of "normal" folks. And I am more and more inclined to believe that.
As for the being saints...well, as it tells us in How it Works...
"No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress."
As for the being saints...well, as it tells us in How it Works...
"No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress."
In worth, we are equal to all and they to us. But many are called to be His workers...few are chosen. We are chosen if we choose Him, and we do because at first we have to, and later because we have to and love to.
The paradox is that we are not saints (meaning we are human and won't do this perfectly), but we actually ARE Saints (workers for God.)
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
It's a human dilemma... Nothing more.
These days you can video evidence on a phone.
I'd get concrete evidence and present that.
Otherwise you could easily open a big old can of worms
You accuse, he denies.... Boom, worms are off and wiggling .
If I could not get concrete evidence... I'd stay out of it myself.
These days you can video evidence on a phone.
I'd get concrete evidence and present that.
Otherwise you could easily open a big old can of worms
You accuse, he denies.... Boom, worms are off and wiggling .
If I could not get concrete evidence... I'd stay out of it myself.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I went to a military college. We had an honor code there. It read, "I will not lie, steal or cheat nor tolerate those who do." If someone I knew was doing one of the above and I knew about it but did nothing, I'm just as guilty as they are and we both would have been kicked out. Condoning theft (by inaction) is more in the same ballpark as the theft itself than it is something totally separate.
I can already see several ppl here don't agree with that but I do. Absolutely I'd feel it's my duty to say something. For sure, saying nothing is the easier option but it's the less honorable one (IMO). In my experience, I have to look good and hard look at what seems easy and 9x out of 10 DO the opposite.
I can already see several ppl here don't agree with that but I do. Absolutely I'd feel it's my duty to say something. For sure, saying nothing is the easier option but it's the less honorable one (IMO). In my experience, I have to look good and hard look at what seems easy and 9x out of 10 DO the opposite.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,359
Originally Posted by DayTrader
I went to a military college. We had an honor code there. It read, "I will not lie, steal or cheat nor tolerate those who do." If someone I knew was doing one of the above and I knew about it but did nothing, I'm just as guilty as they are and we both would have been kicked out. Condoning theft (by inaction) is more in the same ballpark as the theft itself than it is something totally separate.
I can already see several ppl here don't agree with that but I do. Absolutely I'd feel it's my duty to say something. For sure, saying nothing is the easier option but it's the less honorable one (IMO). In my experience, I have to look good and hard look at what seems easy and 9x out of 10 DO the opposite.
I can already see several ppl here don't agree with that but I do. Absolutely I'd feel it's my duty to say something. For sure, saying nothing is the easier option but it's the less honorable one (IMO). In my experience, I have to look good and hard look at what seems easy and 9x out of 10 DO the opposite.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Well, if we're pulling out what we used to do - I worked in the restaurant industry for 20 years. I was on all sides of it. I can say that in those 20 years only two people were accused of theft that I knew about. If a busser is stealing off tables, he/she will not get away with it. Servers are hawks about their money. They know if they are going to get "stiffed" (no tip). It rarely - very rarely - happens. There are enough eyes in a restaurant that a busser may get away with it a couple times but he/she will get caught by the staff very quickly. If bussers are not supposed to disturb/pick up tips, they will get caught in the first few times they do it.
Daytrader, knowing and assuming are two different things. I don't automatically assume someone is dishonest. Now if I was working there and saw a busser steal from someone else's table and knew he was in the wrong, I'd absolutely report it. Some restaurants and/or some servers have the busser pick up the money before the next customer is seated. Sadly, customers are also likely to pocket cash left on a table. What if the busser was married to the server who's money he picked up? What if he has an agreement to do so? You just don't know. I'm not going to try to right every perceived slight in the world. That made me drink - trying to play God.
I think if anything this little question could serve as a lesson in "more will be revealed" and, "live and let live." All questions are more complicated than we would think.
Daytrader, knowing and assuming are two different things. I don't automatically assume someone is dishonest. Now if I was working there and saw a busser steal from someone else's table and knew he was in the wrong, I'd absolutely report it. Some restaurants and/or some servers have the busser pick up the money before the next customer is seated. Sadly, customers are also likely to pocket cash left on a table. What if the busser was married to the server who's money he picked up? What if he has an agreement to do so? You just don't know. I'm not going to try to right every perceived slight in the world. That made me drink - trying to play God.
I think if anything this little question could serve as a lesson in "more will be revealed" and, "live and let live." All questions are more complicated than we would think.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 349
This is an interesting discussion, so I looked up what the Bible would have us do in such a situation. I found this:
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. - James 4:17
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. - Luke 17:3
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. - Proverbs 27:17
However, if they split tips as others have mentioned above, I am not sure that I would say anything. I just thought I would put those Bible quotes out there to see what others think and I do agree with biminiblue, we don't really know the whole situation.
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. - James 4:17
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. - Luke 17:3
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. - Proverbs 27:17
However, if they split tips as others have mentioned above, I am not sure that I would say anything. I just thought I would put those Bible quotes out there to see what others think and I do agree with biminiblue, we don't really know the whole situation.
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted by biminiblue
Well, if we're pulling out what we used to do - I worked in the restaurant industry for 20 years. I was on all sides of it. I can say that in those 20 years only two people were accused of theft that I knew about. If a busser is stealing off tables, he/she will not get away with it. Servers are hawks about their money. They know if they are going to get "stiffed" (no tip). It rarely - very rarely - happens. There are enough eyes in a restaurant that a busser may get away with it a couple times but he/she will get caught by the staff very quickly. If bussers are not supposed to disturb/pick up tips, they will get caught in the first few times they do it.
Daytrader, knowing and assuming are two different things. I don't automatically assume someone is dishonest. Now if I was working there and saw a busser steal from someone else's table and knew he was in the wrong, I'd absolutely report it. Some restaurants and/or some servers have the busser pick up the money before the next customer is seated. Sadly, customers are also likely to pocket cash left on a table. What if the busser was married to the server who's money he picked up? What if he has an agreement to do so? You just don't know. I'm not going to try to right every perceived slight in the world. That made me drink - trying to play God.
I think if anything this little question could serve as a lesson in "more will be revealed" and, "live and let live." All questions are more complicated than we would think.
Daytrader, knowing and assuming are two different things. I don't automatically assume someone is dishonest. Now if I was working there and saw a busser steal from someone else's table and knew he was in the wrong, I'd absolutely report it. Some restaurants and/or some servers have the busser pick up the money before the next customer is seated. Sadly, customers are also likely to pocket cash left on a table. What if the busser was married to the server who's money he picked up? What if he has an agreement to do so? You just don't know. I'm not going to try to right every perceived slight in the world. That made me drink - trying to play God.
I think if anything this little question could serve as a lesson in "more will be revealed" and, "live and let live." All questions are more complicated than we would think.
I know this is a rhetorical exercise, but I think all situations vary and all require judgement accordingly. (Hey, we have had discussions about people taking money from the baskets being handed around at meetings - it just depends, right?)
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