Open Meeting
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
People make mistakes and that includes people at AA meetings. To expect that everyone will be perfect in adherence to the rules is silly. We cannot control other people---only ourselves. I suspect that this bothers you because you were complicit. You did not tell him that you did not want to hear him break anonymity. If you had spoken up, I am sure this would not have weight any more.
That said, there is a lot of confusion about what anonymity is. My sponsors felt that we needed to remain anonymous in the program and not share identifying information with anyone I met in a meeting. Others have said that this is okay. People interpret this differently and he may not have felt he was breaking anonymity if he was sharing information with another alcoholic at a meeting.
That said, there is a lot of confusion about what anonymity is. My sponsors felt that we needed to remain anonymous in the program and not share identifying information with anyone I met in a meeting. Others have said that this is okay. People interpret this differently and he may not have felt he was breaking anonymity if he was sharing information with another alcoholic at a meeting.
RU, I get where you're coming from ... a breach of anonymity offended me not long ago. After I got over my initial reaction (anger and a sense of betrayal) I realized that, in AA as in many recovery forums, some people are sicker than others. I cannot change that, it's one of the things I need to accept about life. I continue to go to meetings, but my involvement in certain discussions when certain people are present is filtered a little differently. I think it is very unfortunate if that incident prevents you from attending meetings in the future, especially if you're getting help and support from them.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Good Good luck with your sobriety journey wherever you may go with it RU12
If I run into R2D2 at a meeting... Can I pass on your regards?
Weeoooooopp bleeeeeeppp giggity doooooooyooo baaaaaaaaaarrrrrrp.
If I run into R2D2 at a meeting... Can I pass on your regards?
Weeoooooopp bleeeeeeppp giggity doooooooyooo baaaaaaaaaarrrrrrp.
I guess if you go to a meeting you run the risk of someone you know finding out you have a drinking problem. I wouldn't worry about that one guy though. I only share on SR and would like to keep it that way. I would be all "crap now people at work know".
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Weeoooooopp bleeeeeeppp giggity doooooooyooo baaaaaaaaaarrrrrrp.
^ never has a truer word been spoken on this topic i agree totaly with your comment hawks
the wisdom in that one statement blows me away thanks for posting it : )
@ r2 i hope it doesnt put you off going to aa even if they are only open meetings, take it all with a pinch of salt if you can as its really not a big deal but like has been said why not just mention what happend to your work mate and see how he feels about it after all its his anonymity that your talking about here
^ never has a truer word been spoken on this topic i agree totaly with your comment hawks
the wisdom in that one statement blows me away thanks for posting it : )
@ r2 i hope it doesnt put you off going to aa even if they are only open meetings, take it all with a pinch of salt if you can as its really not a big deal but like has been said why not just mention what happend to your work mate and see how he feels about it after all its his anonymity that your talking about here
if its not broke then there is no need to fix it
if you can show me that aa is broken then i might reconsider but as it stands aa is as good now as its always been it saves people lives, its often the last place anyone will go to for help but that ok its still around and doing well,
if you can show me that aa is broken then i might reconsider but as it stands aa is as good now as its always been it saves people lives, its often the last place anyone will go to for help but that ok its still around and doing well,
Asking you to consider that you might be closed minded, has everything to do with your judgement of something before you investigate it. Ya know the old "contempt prior to investigation" thing? My suggestion that you might be closed minded has nothing to do with the difference between our opinions.
The film is not saying that AA people should be public about their AA participation. Rather it's suggesting that they consider being public about being "in recovery". If you saw the film you might understand that, but you already seem to know all about the film before seeing it. Who am I to argue?
Ahh... that movie again... ahh... the idea behind anonymity... ahh.... how I know I should stay out of this but sometimes can't help myself... ahh....
Anonymity, as far as the traditions and AA is concerned, has little to nothing to do with being ashamed of our past. I don't know a single sober alcoholic who is. Most, in fact, are quite proud of the fact that they're sober. As humble as they try to be about it .
As for the OP, I'd have answered with, "I might know him. Can't say though, as this is an anonymous program", and I'd have said it with a smile. Might have also said, "I don't talk about AA at work. People don't know I'm in the program, and I like to keep it that way". Just an honest, friendly, and direct response.
Anonymity, as far as the traditions and AA is concerned, has little to nothing to do with being ashamed of our past. I don't know a single sober alcoholic who is. Most, in fact, are quite proud of the fact that they're sober. As humble as they try to be about it .
As for the OP, I'd have answered with, "I might know him. Can't say though, as this is an anonymous program", and I'd have said it with a smile. Might have also said, "I don't talk about AA at work. People don't know I'm in the program, and I like to keep it that way". Just an honest, friendly, and direct response.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 765
Know that you have the right not to answer personal questions and know the world is full of people who are also imperfect like you and me.
If you're feeling lonely, keep coming back and listen...watch for folks who seem like-minded and who are of your same gender...ask God for help and courage and approach someone and introduce yourself. If it doesn't work keep trying. You could make a friend.
There's people for everyone in AA.
And focus on what's good about the meeting not what or who you don't like.
The most important thing is you went to the meeting. Good for you.
If you're feeling lonely, keep coming back and listen...watch for folks who seem like-minded and who are of your same gender...ask God for help and courage and approach someone and introduce yourself. If it doesn't work keep trying. You could make a friend.
There's people for everyone in AA.
And focus on what's good about the meeting not what or who you don't like.
The most important thing is you went to the meeting. Good for you.
Honest question(s) here...
How does someone being public about their recovery help them, or others? I read a lot about breaking the stigma, making people more aware, but how in the real world does this help? I truly don't know, and think on many levels it can be more harmful than helpful.
People don't live in caves. People know when they, or the people around them have an alcohol or drug problem. People can get thousands of resources for help with addictions by typing 2 words into a search engine. In an instant. How would my, or Christie Ally's admission of a problem or recovery be of help to the general public? What if someone who is public about their former problem starts drinking or using again? Or kills themselves as someone just did? A lot that says for "recovery". Help me understand this "awareness" thing that so many people seem to think the world is in darkness about? Most people I known, know where to go if they have a problem. Or maybe I'm in the dark.
And regarding the stigma... Is it really a bad thing to think poorly of yourself or someone else if they're driving drunk, being abusive, getting into fights, stealing, not showing up, and doing all the other negative things that are often associated with addiction? The "stigma"? I'm missing something there, too.
How does someone being public about their recovery help them, or others? I read a lot about breaking the stigma, making people more aware, but how in the real world does this help? I truly don't know, and think on many levels it can be more harmful than helpful.
People don't live in caves. People know when they, or the people around them have an alcohol or drug problem. People can get thousands of resources for help with addictions by typing 2 words into a search engine. In an instant. How would my, or Christie Ally's admission of a problem or recovery be of help to the general public? What if someone who is public about their former problem starts drinking or using again? Or kills themselves as someone just did? A lot that says for "recovery". Help me understand this "awareness" thing that so many people seem to think the world is in darkness about? Most people I known, know where to go if they have a problem. Or maybe I'm in the dark.
And regarding the stigma... Is it really a bad thing to think poorly of yourself or someone else if they're driving drunk, being abusive, getting into fights, stealing, not showing up, and doing all the other negative things that are often associated with addiction? The "stigma"? I'm missing something there, too.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
I prefer not to discuss AA outside of the meetings. The main reason is I like the one day at a time philosophy. I feel no pressure telling myself I'm just not drinking for today and leaving it at that. (I work with several AA members and have never had issues with anyone carelessly breaking my anonymity.)
When I came into the rooms of AA I had no idea how it would turn out. I had broken promises to myself and others about my drinking too many times in the past. One day at a time. I have always liked that idea.
Another concern is 12-step programs can be controversial and I don't feel like having a potential argument about AA with non-members who might take a negative view of the program.
When I came into the rooms of AA I had no idea how it would turn out. I had broken promises to myself and others about my drinking too many times in the past. One day at a time. I have always liked that idea.
Another concern is 12-step programs can be controversial and I don't feel like having a potential argument about AA with non-members who might take a negative view of the program.
Honest question(s) here...
How does someone being public about their recovery help them, or others? I read a lot about breaking the stigma, making people more aware, but how in the real world does this help? I truly don't know, and think on many levels it can be more harmful than helpful.
People don't live in caves. People know when they, or the people around them have an alcohol or drug problem. People can get thousands of resources for help with addictions by typing 2 words into a search engine. In an instant. How would my, or Christie Ally's admission of a problem or recovery be of help to the general public? What if someone who is public about their former problem starts drinking or using again? Or kills themselves as someone just did? A lot that says for "recovery". Help me understand this "awareness" thing that so many people seem to think the world is in darkness about? Most people I known, know where to go if they have a problem. Or maybe I'm in the dark.
And regarding the stigma... Is it really a bad thing to think poorly of yourself or someone else if they're driving drunk, being abusive, getting into fights, stealing, not showing up, and doing all the other negative things that are often associated with addiction? The "stigma"? I'm missing something there, too.
How does someone being public about their recovery help them, or others? I read a lot about breaking the stigma, making people more aware, but how in the real world does this help? I truly don't know, and think on many levels it can be more harmful than helpful.
People don't live in caves. People know when they, or the people around them have an alcohol or drug problem. People can get thousands of resources for help with addictions by typing 2 words into a search engine. In an instant. How would my, or Christie Ally's admission of a problem or recovery be of help to the general public? What if someone who is public about their former problem starts drinking or using again? Or kills themselves as someone just did? A lot that says for "recovery". Help me understand this "awareness" thing that so many people seem to think the world is in darkness about? Most people I known, know where to go if they have a problem. Or maybe I'm in the dark.
And regarding the stigma... Is it really a bad thing to think poorly of yourself or someone else if they're driving drunk, being abusive, getting into fights, stealing, not showing up, and doing all the other negative things that are often associated with addiction? The "stigma"? I'm missing something there, too.
I know this is waaaaaaaay off topic so I'll stop here.
I have been in a situation before where I listened to others (non-members) have a very negative conversation about AA. They had no idea I was a member. I am grateful for this experience because it really taught me how important anonymity is, for myself and for others. You just never know how other people feel about AA or if they look down upon it. Many non-alcoholics do not understand alcoholism at all. They are really not very empathetic and see it as a personal weakness. I disagree with them, of course, but I've also learned it's not my job to win everyone over or change their mind.
Breaking another's anonymity can do harm to them. You never know how their boss feels about it or their coworkers. I run my own business and I have NEVER told a client I'm an AA member. There is very often drinking at the events in which I work (weddings). Since my business relies on word-of-mouth, and there is usually drinking at weddings, I don't want potential clients to know. It can make people who do not understand AA uncomfortable.
Their drinking does not bother me at all, btw. I really do not even notice it. But I'm not about to go into the why of that with them. I'm just there to do a job. And that is that.
I've been around a few years. I don't have a problem with a person dropping my name to another member. I personally would check with a member first to see if they cared if I mentioned their name or gave a phone number.
My primary purpose is to help other people get sober.
My primary purpose is to help other people get sober.
Even Bill and Dr. Bob had different views.......
From Box 459 - News and Notes from the General Service Office of AA - Volume 58, Number 3 / Fall 2012
When is Breaking Your Anonymity Not an Anonymity Break?
While much has been written in A.A. literature about
anonymity, including in a General Service Conference-
approved pamphlet called “Understanding Anonymity,”
communications coming into the General Service Office
from members of the Fellowship suggest that there
remains a great deal of misunderstanding about this
“spiritual foundation of all our Traditions.” What follows
are just a few examples of the types of inquiries that arrive
through phone calls, e-mails and letters, and some of the
responses from A.A. literature.
Q.
“We have a member who moved here from some-
where else and he is using his last name in meetings. What
should we say to this person who is breaking the Tradition
of anonymity?”
A.
A.A. co-founder Bill W. wrote in The Language of
the Heart (p. 15) that “It should be the privilege of each
individual A.A. to cloak himself with as much personal
anonymity as he desires. His fellow A.A.s should respect
his wishes and help guard whatever status he wants to
assume.” It is thus up to each individual to decide how
anonymous he or she wishes to be, at any level below that
of the public level. Giving your last name in an A.A. meet-
ing is not “breaking” A.A.’s Tradition of anonymity.
In fact, the author of an article in the February 1969
Grapevine magazine attributed the following to A.A.’s
other co-founder, Dr. Bob, regarding personal anonymity
and the Eleventh Tradition:
“Since our Tradition on anonymity designates the exact
level where the line should be held, it must be obvious to
everyone who can read and understand the English lan-
guage that to maintain anonymity at any other level is
definitely a violation of this Tradition.
“The A.A. who hides his identity from his fellow A.A.
by using only a given name violates the Tradition just as
much as the A.A. who permits his name to appear in the
press in connection with matters pertaining to A.A.
“The former is maintaining his anonymity above the
level of press, radio, and films, and the latter is maintain-
ing his anonymity below the level of press, radio and films
— whereas the Tradition states that we should maintain
our anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” (Dr.
Bob and the Good Oldtimers, pp. 264-65)
---------------------------------------------
I found this interesting as well:
In his discussion of the Twelfth Tradition in Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Bill Wilson said: “ . . . in the beginning, anonymity was not born of confidence; it was the child of our early fears. Our first nameless groups of alcoholics were secret societies.” But Bill went on to add: “Our growth made it plain that we couldn’t be a secret society . . .”
And there is more to AA’s not remaining stuck in a “secret society” interpretation of anonymity than the mere factor of growth. AA experience has proved that there exists an additional and a far higher basis in principle for the practice of anonymity. Fear may rule the new person’s desire to be anonymous. But it is humility — the refusal to take personal credit for the results of God’s mercy — that should guide the successfully recovered AA member in his determination to remain anonymous.
As for my own personal opinion.....I never try or hope to be anonymous to anyone in recovery, anyone who wants to be in recovery, nor anyone who wants information on recovery.
From Box 459 - News and Notes from the General Service Office of AA - Volume 58, Number 3 / Fall 2012
When is Breaking Your Anonymity Not an Anonymity Break?
While much has been written in A.A. literature about
anonymity, including in a General Service Conference-
approved pamphlet called “Understanding Anonymity,”
communications coming into the General Service Office
from members of the Fellowship suggest that there
remains a great deal of misunderstanding about this
“spiritual foundation of all our Traditions.” What follows
are just a few examples of the types of inquiries that arrive
through phone calls, e-mails and letters, and some of the
responses from A.A. literature.
Q.
“We have a member who moved here from some-
where else and he is using his last name in meetings. What
should we say to this person who is breaking the Tradition
of anonymity?”
A.
A.A. co-founder Bill W. wrote in The Language of
the Heart (p. 15) that “It should be the privilege of each
individual A.A. to cloak himself with as much personal
anonymity as he desires. His fellow A.A.s should respect
his wishes and help guard whatever status he wants to
assume.” It is thus up to each individual to decide how
anonymous he or she wishes to be, at any level below that
of the public level. Giving your last name in an A.A. meet-
ing is not “breaking” A.A.’s Tradition of anonymity.
In fact, the author of an article in the February 1969
Grapevine magazine attributed the following to A.A.’s
other co-founder, Dr. Bob, regarding personal anonymity
and the Eleventh Tradition:
“Since our Tradition on anonymity designates the exact
level where the line should be held, it must be obvious to
everyone who can read and understand the English lan-
guage that to maintain anonymity at any other level is
definitely a violation of this Tradition.
“The A.A. who hides his identity from his fellow A.A.
by using only a given name violates the Tradition just as
much as the A.A. who permits his name to appear in the
press in connection with matters pertaining to A.A.
“The former is maintaining his anonymity above the
level of press, radio, and films, and the latter is maintain-
ing his anonymity below the level of press, radio and films
— whereas the Tradition states that we should maintain
our anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” (Dr.
Bob and the Good Oldtimers, pp. 264-65)
---------------------------------------------
I found this interesting as well:
In his discussion of the Twelfth Tradition in Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Bill Wilson said: “ . . . in the beginning, anonymity was not born of confidence; it was the child of our early fears. Our first nameless groups of alcoholics were secret societies.” But Bill went on to add: “Our growth made it plain that we couldn’t be a secret society . . .”
And there is more to AA’s not remaining stuck in a “secret society” interpretation of anonymity than the mere factor of growth. AA experience has proved that there exists an additional and a far higher basis in principle for the practice of anonymity. Fear may rule the new person’s desire to be anonymous. But it is humility — the refusal to take personal credit for the results of God’s mercy — that should guide the successfully recovered AA member in his determination to remain anonymous.
As for my own personal opinion.....I never try or hope to be anonymous to anyone in recovery, anyone who wants to be in recovery, nor anyone who wants information on recovery.
I can understand the concern of some AA members over their own anonymity.
I was worried about others in my small village knowing that I was in AA.
Then I attended a funeral of a well-loved AA member who was also a well-loved resident of our village.
This man was of great service to our community and our AA meetings.
He particularly helped me when I first got sober.
He bought me a copy of "Living Sober".
At the funeral, I saw a lady that I knew from the village.
She asked me, "How do you know ______.
I thought about my anonymity for a nanosecond and then said, "He helped me to get sober."
I don't remember what she said in response, but it didn't bother me.
She wasn't bothered either.
There were about 150 people at the funeral; including about 50 AA members.
One of us said a few words.
I don't know about anyone else's anonymity.
And I surely won't judge you -- AA member or not.
If you want to tell everyone . . .
If you want nobody to know . . .
It's your business. It's your recovery.
Me, I'll trust in that Higher power that we all talk about.
I work in a neighbouring village.
I would prefer that co-workers do not know that I am in recovery.
But, If they find out?
Well, perhaps it was meant to be.
Then again, What RU12 is talking about is someone else's anonymity.
I believe that it is a very good suggestion to go to the person concerned and see if it bothers them.
That might also give them the heads-up if they are worried about it.
Not sure if RU12 will want to do this, given that RU12 was a party to that discussion that sparked this discussion.
It seems to me to be the right thing to do, nevertheless.
I was worried about others in my small village knowing that I was in AA.
Then I attended a funeral of a well-loved AA member who was also a well-loved resident of our village.
This man was of great service to our community and our AA meetings.
He particularly helped me when I first got sober.
He bought me a copy of "Living Sober".
At the funeral, I saw a lady that I knew from the village.
She asked me, "How do you know ______.
I thought about my anonymity for a nanosecond and then said, "He helped me to get sober."
I don't remember what she said in response, but it didn't bother me.
She wasn't bothered either.
There were about 150 people at the funeral; including about 50 AA members.
One of us said a few words.
I don't know about anyone else's anonymity.
And I surely won't judge you -- AA member or not.
If you want to tell everyone . . .
If you want nobody to know . . .
It's your business. It's your recovery.
Me, I'll trust in that Higher power that we all talk about.
I work in a neighbouring village.
I would prefer that co-workers do not know that I am in recovery.
But, If they find out?
Well, perhaps it was meant to be.
Then again, What RU12 is talking about is someone else's anonymity.
I believe that it is a very good suggestion to go to the person concerned and see if it bothers them.
That might also give them the heads-up if they are worried about it.
Not sure if RU12 will want to do this, given that RU12 was a party to that discussion that sparked this discussion.
It seems to me to be the right thing to do, nevertheless.
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