It takes all sorts
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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It takes all sorts
If there is one observation I'd make of the many and various personality types that make up AA as we know it.
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Hawks 
If there is one observation I'd make of the many and various personality types that make up AA as we know it.
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
It's all good.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I think you may have a somewhat wrong impression of Bill's brand of the spiritual. Here are a few lines from his story.
"I simply had to believe in a Spirit of the Universe, who knew neither time nor limitation. But that was as far as I had gone.
With ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory."
As for the suit and tie description. Here is a photo of Bill and Lois as they were when they traveled to collect information about companies for potential investment. Hardly a typical investment analyst, even then.
"I simply had to believe in a Spirit of the Universe, who knew neither time nor limitation. But that was as far as I had gone.
With ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory."
As for the suit and tie description. Here is a photo of Bill and Lois as they were when they traveled to collect information about companies for potential investment. Hardly a typical investment analyst, even then.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Hi Awuh1
Can you find a photo of Bill speaking at an AA meeting in anything other than a suit and tie?
I have not been able to find one yet. Or Dr Bob.
Of course he was not always so attired.... I'm tipping he did not sleep in a suit and tie.
Bills former thoughts of a spirit of the universe etc, were later supplanted by a more biblical embodiment. Which is evident in this prayer from the BB
"My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen." Pg76
All those that Bill sought as spiritual advisers, at least in the formative years of AA, Rev Sam Shoemaker, Father Ed Donnelly, Emmett Fox et al, were Christians.
Reverend Tunks took Dr Bob under his wing.
It was the 1930's.... I'm not sure they could have found much else, other than a biblical natured God?
I guess these days with a proliferation of non biblical literature readily available, not to mention the internet, we are lucky to be able to easily find many spiritual alternatives to a biblical God.
Can you find a photo of Bill speaking at an AA meeting in anything other than a suit and tie?
I have not been able to find one yet. Or Dr Bob.
Of course he was not always so attired.... I'm tipping he did not sleep in a suit and tie.
Bills former thoughts of a spirit of the universe etc, were later supplanted by a more biblical embodiment. Which is evident in this prayer from the BB
"My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen." Pg76
All those that Bill sought as spiritual advisers, at least in the formative years of AA, Rev Sam Shoemaker, Father Ed Donnelly, Emmett Fox et al, were Christians.
Reverend Tunks took Dr Bob under his wing.
It was the 1930's.... I'm not sure they could have found much else, other than a biblical natured God?
I guess these days with a proliferation of non biblical literature readily available, not to mention the internet, we are lucky to be able to easily find many spiritual alternatives to a biblical God.
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Whose to say your conception of a "straight laced God" is considered "alternative" to others? 
I know a few suit and tie dudes who lean up against some very "non-traditional" Powers...
In the end, I think whatever works, works.
I know a few suit and tie dudes who lean up against some very "non-traditional" Powers...
In the end, I think whatever works, works.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Originally Posted by Hawks
If there is one observation I'd make of the many and various personality types that make up AA as we know it.
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
Bill and Bob were both "straight laced" Kind of guys in their chosen fields. Both wore suits and ties to work each day and so they chose a relatively straight laced God of their own understanding.
I have observed that people who led a more 'alternative' lifestyle prior to AA, often go for 'alternative' higher power or spiritual concepts in AA.
This observation bares out in my home group where most of us suit and tie conformity types just go "Oh well, God it is" and the guys with dreaded hair or who were former punk rockers or modern day hippies, always lean towards Buddhist stuff or something 'alternative' to a straight laced God.
Thoughts??
Know that I AM is what I ascribe to today. There was no fait accompli in this however or resignation based on my station in life.
The beauty of the program for me is the love and tolerance we try to have towards each other regardless of personal selection of one's higher power. That's the key!!!
Friend of Jimmy B
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Hawks
I guess these days with a proliferation of non biblical literature readily available, not to mention the internet, we are lucky to be able to easily find many spiritual alternatives to a biblical God.
FWIW, I'm an aging apatheist gastrointestinal NY Jew with buddhist philosophical leanings. And a lifelong Punk (we never call ourselves punk rockers). I don't own a tie and if I had hair I might have dreads. Big whoop for me, right?.
Maybe you're on to something
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Originally Posted by CousinA
There has always been a proliferation of non biblical literature as well alternatives to an Abrahamic god. Hinduism and Buddhism (Buddhist "stuff") were established long before the bible was even a gleam in it's many authors eyes.
FWIW, I'm an aging apatheist gastrointestinal NY Jew with buddhist philosophical leanings. And a lifelong Punk (we never call ourselves punk rockers). I don't own a tie and if I had hair I might have dreads. Big whoop for me, right?.
Maybe you're on to something
FWIW, I'm an aging apatheist gastrointestinal NY Jew with buddhist philosophical leanings. And a lifelong Punk (we never call ourselves punk rockers). I don't own a tie and if I had hair I might have dreads. Big whoop for me, right?.
Maybe you're on to something
Or maybe there was?? And they just never considered giving it a read.
I dont know for sure.
I'd be very interested to know for sure, but I don't have a time machine (damn it)
So, I'm left to draw conclusions from what Bill & Bob wrote, so far as I can tell, they never came across any Buddhist people or literature and if they did, I have yet to find where it has been written about.
The world we know today....... It wasn't such a global village in the 1930's.
And yes CousinA, you are suggestive that my observations are not too wildly off kilter
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
I immediately recognized the very first time that I read the Big Book that what was described on pages 46 and 47 was not orthodox Christianity but rather Gnosticism:
" Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him."
" When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God."
" Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him."
" When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God."
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I've entirely missed the point in this observation.
Is it to garner a way to separate the dreadlocked AAers from the suit and tie crowd? Because that is a simple way to build walls between us.
My God is mine. Even in a church, there are differing interpretations, and certainly different personal style. Why does it matter?
I'll bet they eat different food and have a different decorating style too. I don't get it.
Is it to garner a way to separate the dreadlocked AAers from the suit and tie crowd? Because that is a simple way to build walls between us.
My God is mine. Even in a church, there are differing interpretations, and certainly different personal style. Why does it matter?
I'll bet they eat different food and have a different decorating style too. I don't get it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by Flynbuy
When younger, I had deep roots in Reggae music and Rastafari. Seemed to fit! Many I have found, change their concepts of a higher power as time goes on.
Know that I AM is what I ascribe to today. There was no fait accompli in this however or resignation based on my station in life.
The beauty of the program for me is the love and tolerance we try to have towards each other regardless of personal selection of one's higher power. That's the key!!!
Know that I AM is what I ascribe to today. There was no fait accompli in this however or resignation based on my station in life.
The beauty of the program for me is the love and tolerance we try to have towards each other regardless of personal selection of one's higher power. That's the key!!!
AA today, is a bit like the United Colours of Bennetton ad's, but in a spiritual sense
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Originally Posted by biminiblue
I've entirely missed the point in this observation.
Is it to garner a way to separate the dreadlocked AAers from the suit and tie crowd? Because that is a simple way to build walls between us.
My God is mine. Even in a church, there are differing interpretations, and certainly different personal style. Why does it matter?
I'll bet they eat different food and have a different decorating style too. I don't get it.
Is it to garner a way to separate the dreadlocked AAers from the suit and tie crowd? Because that is a simple way to build walls between us.
My God is mine. Even in a church, there are differing interpretations, and certainly different personal style. Why does it matter?
I'll bet they eat different food and have a different decorating style too. I don't get it.
It's like cloud gazing. If I say I see a cloud that looks like an elephant and you say " I can't see how that cloud looks like an elephant ".... Is either of us guilty of anything other than gazing at clouds?
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