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Addicts in AA

Old 09-30-2014, 06:10 AM
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Addicts in AA

I'm truly not trying to open a can of worms here, but I am in a situation that I'm having trouble explaining.

An addict (heroin and crack), who I will call Jane, is wanting to attend AA meetings instead of NA meetings. The reason is the quality of the meetings as well as the commitment of its members. Jane says too many people in NA are court ordered, not serious, or they are in the meetings to hustle. Jane is also paranoid that others in the meetings will repeat what she says, illegal activities, and it will put her children and job at risk. Alcoholism, to Jane, is more socailly acceptable than being a junkie or crackhead. Jane also believes that a drug is a drug, so why can't she just go to AA?

My problem is that I don't know how to explain to Jane why addicts have their own meetings. And why that is important. I've expressed to her that if she has a desire to stop drinking, she is absolutely welcome at AA, but the drugs are an outside issue at an AA meeting.

I also expressed to Jane that by her attending AA and not fully revealing the true nature of her addiction, she is remaining in denial. She's not being completely honest, and that's a major liability in a 12 step program. I also expressed to her that identifying with the problem is very important, especially early on.

I'm not looking for defenses against Jane's arguments. I just want to help Jane make the best choice for her recovery in the long run.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:20 AM
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Did she ask you for this input?

I would say work your own program.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:23 AM
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You know the deal. If she has a desire to stop drinking then there's nothing really to discuss. She's welcome in AA regardless of anyone's opinion. She might want to be respectful in her sharing and focus on alcohol as opposed to drugs though.

If she plans to continue drinking, then she doesn't belong but is welcome to attend all the open meetings she wants.

Also... EVERYTHING in AA is a suggestion. There are groups that are very welcoming to addicts. I'd suggest she finds one of those.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
Did she ask you for this input?

I would say work your own program.

. That too.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:27 AM
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If Jane has "the desire to stop drinking," she deserves a seat in AA meetings if she wants one. If she is disruptive by diverting attention from the primary purpose of "carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffers," she should be tarred & feathered (kidding...but she should probably be steered toward NA).

I've known several addicts who attended AA meetings with no problem because they didn't broadcast the specifics of their addiction. They contributed great comments & gave great leads. Crucial that they didn't harp on the fact that it wasn't alcohol that brought them to AA for recovery. Some meetings are more tolerant of this grey zone than others. Conversely, surely there must be some serious NA folks in Jane's area....it just may take a while to find them.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:32 AM
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I've heard many a person introduce themselves as "addict, alcoholic" in meetings. We're just there to offer support, but we are indeed specifically talking about alcohol in AA. Of course many of the same issues of addiction apply. It's possible to get a lot out of the meeting by listening to the issues surrounding addiction - not just talking about the nature of the use.

I went to an NA meeting once as an experiment because I wondered about this very question - they were a very friendly and welcoming group - I know I was glad I wasn't turned away because I was from the "other fellowship" as they called it.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Climber122 View Post
I've heard many a person introduce themselves as "addict, alcoholic" in meetings.
In the Southern California meetings I attend that's pretty much the norm.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:47 AM
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Many NAs are told that if they can't find an NA meeting, to get to an AA meeting. My experience is that addiction is addiction, recovery is recovery. My home-group entertains plenty of non-AA types. We only ask that if they share, they discuss their problems as they relate to alcoholism. Many AAs have "outside issues," and many cross-addictions are intertwined. The solution seems to be the same, the steps are the same, the results are apparently the same. The belief that drug addicts are somehow worse than alcoholics is laughable, too. Mine was a garbage can of Mood Altering Substances--and they ALL worked for a time and they ALL had to go...
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:29 AM
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"Work your own program" Step 12 is part of my program, folks!

Jane explained her situation in detail to me, and wanted my response. She went into much more detail than what I wrote in my original post, which in turn fueled my response to her. I'm not going to go into those details, but she sounded like a good candidate for NA, so that is why I told her what I did!

I understand some meetings are very open to addicts, but my area is pretty cut and dry. There are cross-addicted people, of course, but in AA they identify as alcoholic and they share about alcoholism. There is not a lot of talk about drugs in the meetings where I live. You'll hear it more in speaker meetings, but even then the speaker most times will say something about drugs being apart of the story, but they're focusing the talk on alcoholism.

I have also been to a few NA meetings. Occasionally we do get visitors from NA in AA--one guy goes mostly to NA, but also identifies as alcoholic, and shares at AA meetings. I have gotten something out of his shares, no doubt.
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:44 AM
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This is an interesting topic to discuss. It is a gray area and there doesn't seem to be a solution to the problem of some addicts not really belonging in AA but going anyway. We have no central authority to mandate a solution. But AA meetings and AA groups solve the problem themselves, by establishing a policy or a culture that deals with the issue, giving guidance on what to do.

I don't mind addicts coming to AA meetings as long as the singleness of purpose imperative is maintained. At a meeting I attend there is one guy, with a little over a year sober, who introduces himself, "My name is John and I'm an addict." I observed him get sober, share often, and chair our AA meetings. Nobody seems to mind and John is an asset to the group.

The meeting and the group say, basically, that it's OK. Even though AA is not really for John.

Now, things would be different if he showed up at the Friday noon AA meeting at St. Timothy's church . . .
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pagekeeper View Post
I've expressed to her that if she has a desire to stop drinking, she is absolutely welcome at AA, but the drugs are an outside issue at an AA meeting.
I would just add that AA has a "singleness of purpose" and that's to carry the message to "alcoholics". Drug-alogs have no place at an AA meeting.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:34 AM
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I apologize if I seemed insensitive to the question.

I don't attend NA although I've had a couple NA candidates as sponsees. I suggested that they supplement their meetings, and they sort of said the same things you've been told--the hustle, the authoritarianism, the lack of meetings. Of course, I would have said the same stuff about AA meetings had I not been desperate for sobriety.

I won't detail my sponsorship experience here, but I will say that terminal uniqueness is exacerbated when working with the ones that I worked with.

I heard long ago that if someone's ready to get sober, nothing I say will impede them, and if they're not, anything I say will. That's my experience in working with NAs. There seems to be an undercurrent of distrust on their part and rightfully so. Knowing what I know about character defects these days (spec/plank, spot 'em/got 'em, etc.), I am surprised at any amount of trust on their part.

So, yes, honesty is a biggie, but I make it a point of using the word "addiction" when working with them or talking in the meetings they attend. I'd hate to run someone off by trying to be an AA lawyer, know what I mean?

To be clear, I've only worked with 4 NAs. Pretty small sample size, but two are still sober. I don't know if the others are dead or alive.... Thanks for the topic.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:49 AM
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In an open meeting I do not see an issue. There is a singleness of purpose but it is also open to anyone, even people that are not alcoholics. Most guests or students do not comment or share though.

I know many cross addicted people and there are some that just identify as addicts but again, it is an open meeting.

If this a person going to a closed meeting or one that sternly urges that all conversation be singleness of purpose then I can see where it might be an issue.

I personally don’t have an issue in an open meeting. I feel for these people the same I feel for the “real alcoholic” sitting next to me. They want and need help.

I know a couple people that have done both AA, NA along with CA and CR. They end up back at AA because that is where they get the most help, where they can identify and remain sober. I assumed this is why we have so many open meetings. There are a lot more open then closed in my area as the need seems to be there.

The person I have leading next month identifies as an addict, he has over four years sober, he has a good recovery message. I find many addicts in AA concentrate on the recovery side of their story because of this and to be honest, that is what I like to hear. We all get to the rooms and we all have that side of the story but I like when they keep that brief and move on to what it is like now. Hearing the good things and the positive results of sobriety helps me. I already know what it took me to get to the rooms, the stories are the same. The only reason mine is different is because its mine.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:38 AM
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Whenever this topic comes up (and it always comes up, lol), I think it's important in the discussion to differentiate between a pure addict and one that might be both an addict and an alcoholic (of which there are many) if they only knew the truth about themselves. Certainly in AA, we should afford someone the opportunity to learn that truth. We can do so by sharing our own experience with what the BB talks about in the Dr.'s Opionion and first 3 chapters. We aren't going to help them get to that truth by talking about their drug use, thereby enabling them to avoid the alcohol question altogether. More is required than just telling them to 'insert drug of choice' when they hear the word alcohol. All that does is prevent them from considering their potential alcohol problem, and most addicts first walking in don't consider alcohol to be a problem for them, despite continually relapsing to their DOC via an alcohol pathway.

In full support of AA's singleness of purpose and in carrying our message to others, we owe it to anyone who walks into the room to discover for themselves whether or not they belong there.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:52 AM
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When I first started going to meetings at my home group NA and AA were merged. I actually enjoyed hearing from the NA people. When they finally formed an NA meeting a huge chunk of people left and I missed them. They brought a lot of good info to the table. They always introduced themselves as an "alcoholic" or "alcoholic/ drug addict" though.

I agree with what everyone else says, if she has a desire to stop drinking then she deserves a spot in AA. I also think that as long as she isn't disrupting anyone else, if she thinks that AA is better suited for her then it's HER decision. I say, live and let live. Be careful about scaring her away too. Then she might not go to ANY meetings and, imo, an AA meeting is better than no meeting at all.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Pagekeeper View Post
I just want to help Jane make the best choice for her recovery in the long run.

Let go, and let God = not up to us.
Typically, booze and drugs are kin folk.

peace
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
Whenever this topic comes up (and it always comes up, lol), I think it's important in the discussion to differentiate between a pure addict and one that might be both an addict and an alcoholic (of which there are many) if they only knew the truth about themselves. Certainly in AA, we should afford someone the opportunity to learn that truth. We can do so by sharing our own experience with what the BB talks about in the Dr.'s Opionion and first 3 chapters. We aren't going to help them get to that truth by talking about their drug use, thereby enabling them to avoid the alcohol question altogether. More is required than just telling them to 'insert drug of choice' when they hear the word alcohol. All that does is prevent them from considering their potential alcohol problem, and most addicts first walking in don't consider alcohol to be a problem for them, despite continually relapsing to their DOC via an alcohol pathway.

In full support of AA's singleness of purpose and in carrying our message to others, we owe it to anyone who walks into the room to discover for themselves whether or not they belong there.
This rings very true to me. Keeping the focus on alcoholism. Jane did specifically say to me that she was going to substitute "addict" for alcoholic in the meetings and literature so she could relate, and perhaps I jumped to conclusions too quickly at the idea of that and thought, "she needs NA." Another way to approach the issue would be to suggest Jane focus on her drinking in accordance to the Dr's Opinion and the first 3 chapters.

Okay, very good. Makes sense. Thank you.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:51 PM
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14 years ago my son came to me with a drug problem, but when doing drugs he drank as well, regardless he wanted to stop. I gave him a Big Book, took him to an AA meeting and introduced him to a friend of mine who quit 26 years earlier when he was my son's age (20). Lou and I took him to lunch and advised him to listen and then participate and be of service whenever possible. Get a sponsor and take the steps quickly. The final words of advice were "you are not special, just a garden variety drunk/druggie, but since you aren't special identify as an alcoholic (don't call attention to yourself by saying you are an addict) and get into the fellowship with a can do attitude. Respect the fact that like myself, just a boozer, many AA members don't relate to drugs and the stories that go with them however we all relate to confusion, fear and the inability to manage our lives."

He followed our advice and on October 29, will celebrate 14 years sober at age 33. He sponsors several men and most of them have a cross addiction as so many younger members seem to have. I have sponsored a few druggies and drunks, but if I feel that I am not what they need I suggest and help them find another who relates better. I firmly believe that a drug user can get and stay sober in AA, but in my opinion out of respect for the fellowship and it's singleness of purpose they should identify as an alcoholic and use the steps to overcome the fear and ego and inability to manage their lives and the choice of poison soon is not an issue.

Just my experience

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Old 09-30-2014, 03:23 PM
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http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/aa-li...r-than-alcohol
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:26 PM
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This issue seems to be much less of a problem than it used to be. Our groups mostly seem to have found ways to accommodate the "pure addict" through open meetings, and most meetings/groups confine themselves to the singleness of purpose. There is not much conflict at the moment. The key things are that we cannot confer AA membership on a non alcoholic.

The book, on page ninety, does give us some responsibility on this, suggesting we satisfy ourselves that the person we are working with is a real alcoholic.

On the other matter that you raise, illegal activities, the AA book suggests we keep our sharing "general" for good reason. Not only may the wrong people be listening, but I have seem situations where a newcomer says things he later regrets and that has had serious consequences at times. People have been arrested for what they said at an AA meeting.

In terms of an members finding AA more stable, we have the same thing here. We have some very neat na people with good recoveries attending AA open meetings for this reason. The sad fact is that part of the reason NA is a little wobbly is that many of their recovered members are hiding in AA. NA needs them. Their presence in AA probably does more harm to NA than it does to AA.
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