Tradition question
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by Carlotta 
...Even if it is a few bucks more, it supports AA and I would not feel morally comfortable either undermining GSO just to be stingy over a few bucks (shoot, I ll just put a few extra anonymous $$ in the envelope).
(o:
NoelleR
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by NoelleR
It's not a question of being stingy; it's about being fiscally responsible. I buy by the hundreds; that's $100-$160 vs $704. To me, a difference of $500--$600 is a tad more than just few bucks; it's is a no-brainer.
(o:
NoelleR
(o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by Carlotta
The OP was talking about the group level. What you chose to do as an individual is your own business.
"Do all our purchases of the big book,others books and literature need to be thru AA to stay within the Traditions?"
Obviously the answer to that depends on the meeting. If they only read 'Conference Approved Literature' then get it through AAWS. However, many groups use other literature (The Little Red Book; Bottle & Stools; 24hrs a Day; etc. etc. etc.) that cannot be purchased through AAWS.
(o:
NoelleR
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by CousinA
We do that at my group. Every newcomer gets a pocket size Big Book, Living Sober and a meeting list.
I believe that cost should never be an issue if someone wants a book and have given many books away over the years. I throw the cost of the book into the basket. I stole a lot of money from people I will never be able to find and it's a good way of making that amends.
-a
I believe that cost should never be an issue if someone wants a book and have given many books away over the years. I throw the cost of the book into the basket. I stole a lot of money from people I will never be able to find and it's a good way of making that amends.
-a
I'm a fan of the large print, so I can write in the columns.
Suggestion to swap living sober and pocket size for workable size large print to newcomers...
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
Perhaps we need to look at the whole financial picture?
Every group that I have been involved with, sends any surplus funds, not needed for the running of the group, to Intergroup.
Our local intergroup will, in turn, send off any surplus funds to York which contributes to World Services.
So, any money saved from purchasing literature, at the group level from other sources, should wind up where contributions should be in the end.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, others are profiting from recovery literature.
Are the printers that AA uses for reproducing literature doing so on purely non-profit terms?
If they are, is this an association with an outside organization?
When we purchase a Big Book that was sourced from AA are we making a hidden contribution to AA?
I don't know enough about AA finances at the World level to know whether literature is a stand-alone division in the AA hierarchy.
Is the AA publishing business simply self supporting?
Or do its profits help to support AA as a whole?
Bottom Line:
Is book publishing an outside issue? It certainly is not our primary purpose.
Every group that I have been involved with, sends any surplus funds, not needed for the running of the group, to Intergroup.
Our local intergroup will, in turn, send off any surplus funds to York which contributes to World Services.
So, any money saved from purchasing literature, at the group level from other sources, should wind up where contributions should be in the end.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, others are profiting from recovery literature.
Are the printers that AA uses for reproducing literature doing so on purely non-profit terms?
If they are, is this an association with an outside organization?
When we purchase a Big Book that was sourced from AA are we making a hidden contribution to AA?
I don't know enough about AA finances at the World level to know whether literature is a stand-alone division in the AA hierarchy.
Is the AA publishing business simply self supporting?
Or do its profits help to support AA as a whole?
Bottom Line:
Is book publishing an outside issue? It certainly is not our primary purpose.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
isnt there only one place the bb, 12&12 and other AA literature like that printed and published? doesnt it have to be originally purchased through AA before being sold on amazon or places like that?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by NoelleR
I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with your understanding/the meaning of the tradition. The tradition is for AA groups, not individual members (we use the steps)
(o:
NoelleR
(o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
From the AA website:
“Conference-approved” — What It Means to You
The term “Conference-approved” describes written or audiovisual material approved by
the Conference for publication by G.S.O. This process assures that everything in such
literature is in accord with A.A. principles. Conference-approved material always deals
with the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous or with information about the A.A.
Fellowship.
The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply
Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful to
alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any individual member
what he or she may or may not read.
“Conference-approved” — What It Means to You
The term “Conference-approved” describes written or audiovisual material approved by
the Conference for publication by G.S.O. This process assures that everything in such
literature is in accord with A.A. principles. Conference-approved material always deals
with the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous or with information about the A.A.
Fellowship.
The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply
Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful to
alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any individual member
what he or she may or may not read.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by NoelleR
I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with your understanding/the meaning of the tradition. The tradition is for AA groups, not individual members (we use the steps)
(o:
NoelleR
(o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
SOME GENERAL SERVICE CONFERENCE LITERATURE
COMMITTEE ADVISORY
It was recommended that:
1968: Conference-approved literature and G.S.O. Guidelines be displayed
and distributed at assembly meetings.
1969: One group member be chosen to be solely responsible for the
distribution of Conference-approved literature and its display.
1971: The delegates assume responsibility for informing A.A.s of all
available Conference-approved literature, and that the updated
spring and fall literature order blanks which are mailed with
Box 4-5-9 be reviewed at district and assembly meetings.
1972: It be suggested that when a local A.A. facility (central office, intergroup, group, etc.) sells non-Conference-approved literature, it be
clearly designated as such.
1977: It was suggested that A.A. groups be discouraged from selling
3M - 01/12 (RP) - Rev. 9/11 - MG-09
Alcoholics Anonymous — 4 —
literature not distributed by the General Service Office and
the Grapevine.
1986: In an effort to strengthen our network of literature representatives
to ensure that A.A. literature is available at meetings, as well as
catalog order forms for books and cassettes that individuals
are likely to want, it is suggested that groups appoint literature
coordinators.
1986: The spirit of the 1977 Conference action regarding group literature
displays be reaffirmed, and recommended the suggestion
that A.A. groups be encouraged to display or sell only literature
published and distributed by the General Service Office, the A.A.
Grapevine and other A.A. entities.
COMMITTEE ADVISORY
It was recommended that:
1968: Conference-approved literature and G.S.O. Guidelines be displayed
and distributed at assembly meetings.
1969: One group member be chosen to be solely responsible for the
distribution of Conference-approved literature and its display.
1971: The delegates assume responsibility for informing A.A.s of all
available Conference-approved literature, and that the updated
spring and fall literature order blanks which are mailed with
Box 4-5-9 be reviewed at district and assembly meetings.
1972: It be suggested that when a local A.A. facility (central office, intergroup, group, etc.) sells non-Conference-approved literature, it be
clearly designated as such.
1977: It was suggested that A.A. groups be discouraged from selling
3M - 01/12 (RP) - Rev. 9/11 - MG-09
Alcoholics Anonymous — 4 —
literature not distributed by the General Service Office and
the Grapevine.
1986: In an effort to strengthen our network of literature representatives
to ensure that A.A. literature is available at meetings, as well as
catalog order forms for books and cassettes that individuals
are likely to want, it is suggested that groups appoint literature
coordinators.
1986: The spirit of the 1977 Conference action regarding group literature
displays be reaffirmed, and recommended the suggestion
that A.A. groups be encouraged to display or sell only literature
published and distributed by the General Service Office, the A.A.
Grapevine and other A.A. entities.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by tomsteve
isnt there only one place the bb, 12&12 and other AA literature like that printed and published? doesnt it have to be originally purchased through AA before being sold on amazon or places like that?
(o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
How does buying used items apply?
I got my BB used and I have no idea where it was purchased originally. What about Big Books for BB study groups that need 30 books to be placed out and shared. If purchased a lot of them off Ebay with no "background" on the book are they not allowed?
I had a guy walk into a meeting a couple months ago. He said he was not in the program. He had a BB. He gave it to me as I was the lead and the only one at the head of the table. He did not say where he got it. He said he wanted to donate and he left.
Weird to say the least but I took the book and gave it to another member that needed one. No background information here either.
I understand supporting the GSO but if I find one at Goodwill, Ebay, used book store or if a guy off the street hands me one I am going to distribute that book to another alcoholic and take it as Gods will that it was made available and not that I need to do a background check on it first or refuse the book and buy only a new one from the intergroup office.
There was a group that would only buy coins from the intergroup office. They could not afford coins from the intergroup office so they bought none. So how does this help the 24 hour sober person that really should get a coin?
Do I have to do a background check on all coins I was given? Do I refuse a coin because I don't know if it was purchased from intergroup?
I got my BB used and I have no idea where it was purchased originally. What about Big Books for BB study groups that need 30 books to be placed out and shared. If purchased a lot of them off Ebay with no "background" on the book are they not allowed?
I had a guy walk into a meeting a couple months ago. He said he was not in the program. He had a BB. He gave it to me as I was the lead and the only one at the head of the table. He did not say where he got it. He said he wanted to donate and he left.
Weird to say the least but I took the book and gave it to another member that needed one. No background information here either.
I understand supporting the GSO but if I find one at Goodwill, Ebay, used book store or if a guy off the street hands me one I am going to distribute that book to another alcoholic and take it as Gods will that it was made available and not that I need to do a background check on it first or refuse the book and buy only a new one from the intergroup office.
There was a group that would only buy coins from the intergroup office. They could not afford coins from the intergroup office so they bought none. So how does this help the 24 hour sober person that really should get a coin?
Do I have to do a background check on all coins I was given? Do I refuse a coin because I don't know if it was purchased from intergroup?
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
If it's a 2nd-4th edition text, it's published through AAWS. Buying it used doesn't matter -- AAWS already received the $ the first time around. If it's published by any other entity (anonpress, Hazeldon, etc), then it's not supporting AAWS.
Just check the copyright page & see who published it.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Just check the copyright page & see who published it.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Alcoholics Anonymous : Fair Use Policy
"What is the copyright status of the Big Book?
The First and Second Editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, are in the public domain in the United States only. The Third and Fourth Editions remain copyright protected worldwide, including the United States. Given that the Internet is a worldwide medium, permission must be requested from A.A.W.S. for all Internet postings of all editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous."
"What is the copyright status of the Big Book?
The First and Second Editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, are in the public domain in the United States only. The Third and Fourth Editions remain copyright protected worldwide, including the United States. Given that the Internet is a worldwide medium, permission must be requested from A.A.W.S. for all Internet postings of all editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous."
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I stand corrected. I didn't realize 2nd edition had also become public domain.
There are no "AA sanctioned" medallions. As a group conscience decision, we offer the coins. I know a lot of other groups who don't.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
There are no "AA sanctioned" medallions. As a group conscience decision, we offer the coins. I know a lot of other groups who don't.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by Patriciae
Alcoholics Anonymous : Fair Use Policy
"What is the copyright status of the Big Book?
The First and Second Editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, are in the public domain in the United States only. The Third and Fourth Editions remain copyright protected worldwide, including the United States. Given that the Internet is a worldwide medium, permission must be requested from A.A.W.S. for all Internet postings of all editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous."
"What is the copyright status of the Big Book?
The First and Second Editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, are in the public domain in the United States only. The Third and Fourth Editions remain copyright protected worldwide, including the United States. Given that the Internet is a worldwide medium, permission must be requested from A.A.W.S. for all Internet postings of all editions of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous."
(o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by NoelleR
The copyrights on the third and fourth editions only apply to the forwards to these editons and the new stories; the 'basic test' portion of the BB (te first 164pgs+) have been in the public domain (in the US) since 1967; copyrights on the second, third, and fourth editions don't alter that. ...and yes, this is the internet, but this site, at least, is a US site; therefore US copyright law applies.
(o:
NoelleR
(o:
NoelleR
You can read it by clicking on the website that I attached to my post regarding "What is the copyright status of the Big Book?"
Friend of Jimmy B
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by SoulSister
I cannot imagine actually reading a pocket size big book! I'm a fan of the large print, so I can write in the columns. Suggestion to swap living sober and pocket size for workable size large print to newcomers...
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