Riverbird

Like many alcoholics, honesty has never been my strong suit. I've been working hard at telling the truth, not just what I think people want to hear. Very hard habit for me to break. My question for all of you is, how meticulous are you with honesty?

For example, I have a close friend who I consider a brother. We grew up next-door to each other, and his family often included me in their events, trips, etc. (My parents were addicts...we didn't do a lot of that kind of stuff). I'm WAY closer with his family today than my biological family I haven't seen in over a decade. Is it lying to call him my brother? I tried calling him my "close friend that I consider a brother even though we're not actually related" but boy did that turn into a nuisance fast! Now I'm back to just brother, since that's what he is to me, but I'm never sure what to say when people comment on how much we look alike and how his kids (who call me aunty) look just like me. Similarly, I refer to my former foster family as my cousins usually, because I got tired of having to explain foster care and answer questions about my biological family when I was just trying to tell a story.

So please tell me if I am over-thinking this, or if this is putting me on the slippery slope towards deeper dishonesty. I've heard people talk about honesty in meetings, and at times they've talked about being way more open than I would ever consider being! So I'd just like to get some more opinions on just how honest it's necessary to be. Thanks!

biminiblue

I had a boyfriend with a lot of made-up relationship names for people in his life.

Like, "my cousin" - who it turned out was just a lifelong friend. Why didn't he call him a lifelong friend?

Or his ex-wife. Never married. Why didn't he call her his ex girlfriend? Or his daughters. They were the kids of yet another ex girlfriend.


He lied about everything. I wondered, "In which of your castles in the sky did you find (him or her)."

Delusion is not a good place to live.

I dumped him over this and many other areas of delusion in his world. I couldn't believe a word he said.

CAPTAINZING2000

Is it kind is it necessary is it truthful and is it necessary?
If not, I figure it's a need to know basis.

I grew up with out any brothers and sisters but I do have close friends who I might not call them my brother, I consider them as such.

Far too many people are intrusive. I don't owe anyone an explanation unless it's something to do with them personally. By the same token, I'm not into someone else's business either. I've a hard enough time keep my own street cleaned.

awuh1

Just my opinion, but words have meaning for a reason. It's to convey ideas accurately to others. If you use words differently than their commonly accepted meaning it introduces an unnecessary complication into communication. It may have unintended negative consequences, regardless of your intent. Consider saying something like ...."this is Joe, he's closer to me than a brother".

Sugah

I have a pile of young adults who call me Mom. I refer to them as my adopted kids. I was in a long-term relationship, not married, and I called his parents my in-laws. That was a long time ago, and I still refer to them as my former in-laws. It conveys the relationship without getting overly complicated (and, honestly, since we're talking about honesty? when people start to explain things to me and give me all the various nuances of a relationship -- when it's not necessary -- I want to yawn).

I don't think there's anything deceptive in any of that. Why? It goes to motives. What are your motives? If you're trying to convey a relationship -- this person is my family -- probably the only people who need an explanation are those who become close to you -- someone you're seriously dating, a sponsor, a close confidant. A coworker? An acquaintance?

Keep it simple, and check your motives.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

P.S. I didn't come from the closest or healthiest family, either. I have quite a few brothers & sisters I'm closer to than the six with whom I share DNA.

Ken33xx

Imo, you're over-thinking this. Do what you feel is best.

It's all good for casual conversations/greetings.

I have a family member who is gay and just about everyone is their circle of friends is considered family. It's aunt Jill this and uncle Jack that for the kids. When in fact only my brother and I are the actually uncles.

This about sums it up...

Jfanagle

I found that as I had more days of sobriety the "bending" of facts and skirting the truth made me more uncomfortable than it ever did when I was drinking. I would catch myself telling something to someone that was not true, but made no difference what so ever. I was just damn good at not telling the truth. Soon I started to stop mid-sentence and correct myself to use the actual facts. For me, lying or "fibbing" if you will was a habit. I needed to break that habit and leave it in the past along with other behaviors that were associated with my drinking.

Now years later telling the truth, no matter the subject, great or small has become a habit. We all know the truth from what's not, but in my case until I practiced honesty in all (or as many as I could) affairs my old behavior was a trail back to my old habits.

I am not giving advice, just telling you what I discovered about myself. If a matter is so small that I can convince myself that honesty isn't that important, then the matter is much bigger than I am willing to admit. Otherwise why lie?

Jon

DayTrader

I don't think working "a program which demands rigorous honesty" relegates me to going into intricate detail about every situation at all times.

I introduce myself as an alkie at a meeting because it's AA, that's the custom, and that's all that really has relevance at an AA meeting. Others introduce themselves as an alkcoholic and a "something else" in the vain of being honest. "That's my truth man, I'm supposed to say it," I've heard. Well, if the program is to believed, then the alcohol, drugs, or whatever else is just a outward manifestation of an internal problem - a problem that's 3 parts: physical, mental, and spiritual.......bla bla bla. Would it make sense to introduce one's self as "someone suffering from a three part malady of which selfishness and self centredness is the root and from which leaves one lacking the sufficient power to live life......etc etc etc" or as "an alcoholic, a male, a guy with blue eyes who stand 5'7", likes to play golf.....etc etc etc?" All of those are "true" but custom is that we keep it simple and reference that which is pertinent to an AA meeting.

I'd say it's fine, for convenience and in line with common practice to refer to a brother-like person as your brother. To do so where such a "falsehood" is relevant - like some sort of paternity deal or regarding an inheritance.....you catch my drift.....that's a different story. We're able to exercise some discretion and common sense.....which I think you were doing. Maybe over complicating it a tad.

Boleo

IMO there are 3 types of Honesty;

1. Being honest with myself
2. Being honest with God
3. being honest with another human being

Numbers two and three helped me a little bit in recovery. However, number one made a HUGE difference in my recovery. Notice in the first paragraph of "How It Works" which type of "Honesty" is mentioned first:

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
(page 58)

Riverbird

It's definitely not about being intentionally deceptive. I get no big gains from convincing someone he's related to me, and I really don't care if anyone finds out that he's not. It's more a convenience thing. For example a while back I lived with him. We were just roommates, but everyone who heard anything about it had to make some comment about were we really "just friends" or "friends with benefits" or whatever. I got tired of the, "What?! No! He's like a brother to me!" And it just got easier to say he's my brother. (He was engaged at the time and random people would still question our relationship constantly!). Also, I've been a big part of his kids' lives from the time they were born, so we both wanted me to have a special title. Aunty just seemed right...so I can be Aunty River....which sounds way nicer than "Daddy's close friend River".

I tend to agree with you that I don't really care about all the specifics of everyone's relationships and how people are connected. That's where the cousins instead of foster family thing comes in especially. Mentioning foster care opens up a giant can of worms that I don't feel the need to open with people I'm not close to. I'm not bothered if someone finds out I was a foster kid, but bringing it up raises all the other questions about my biological family. The other day I just wanted to mention something to some acquaintances about a conversation I had with my former foster mom. I didn't want them to know that I was abandoned by my biological parents and placed in a stranger's home just to be able to continue the current conversation. Lots of people know my history...my sponsor and close friends know it well...I'm ok with others finding out...but I don't think every conversation needs all that detail. I'm probably making you yawn as we speak! lol So I think my motives are ok on this one...but that's why I ask. I do want to consider all sides to it.

I love your "long form" meeting introduction! lol That cracked me up. Thank you!

Sugah

Nope, because here (and in discussion with a sponsor or close confidant) we hash things out. In other contexts, we share in a "general way."

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Eddiebuckle

What is your motive in saying he is your brother? In other words, if you were doing it to deceive someone into giving you access or information limited to immediate family, that's one thing. If you were telling a story to a third party who doesn't know him and never will, and just said brother in the interests of brevity - that's very different than the first example.

Unless you are attempting to deceive people for selfish reasons, the fact that you are not biological brothers is not significant.

Grungehead

I have a close friend who I call "my brother from another mother".

SoulSister

My this...My that...

Mine

I'm special. I must tell you that person is special to me and call him/her mine.

I wonder what the motive in that is.

Why not just call them by their name.

Why do we have to lay claim to another person, and deem that I am special and they are mine?

It's to draw attention to ourselves.

Or to make ourselves seem important. I'm good if I have a person that close to me.

I am important. I have this...or that.

Me. Me. Me.

Just how I feel about it.

Not saying this is true for you Riverbird.

GracieLou

Well if I am walking down the street and I run into a friend and I am with my daughter then the chances are high I will introduce her as my daughter. I am not going to just say, this is Lisa*.

People use "my" all day long. My daughter, my son, my mother/father, my sponsor, my friend, my brother, my dog, my boss, my car. It is part of speech.

My - belonging to or associated with the speaker.

They are not mine the way a watch is mine but I am associated with them and most of the time people announce what that association is.

Is it always necessary, no, but it saves time of having to explain later how that person is associated to us. People are curious (nosy) creatures and I find it is better to tell it up front then to let their minds wander around in assumption land.

*My daughters name is not Lisa..LOL

fraankie

you're overthinking it too much
not trying to be smart
but
i got a few close friends for many years
i have no hesitaion to introduce one of them as a brother

i've done it before
go with the feeling at the time

best
fraankie

Aellyce

I usually introduce people to each-other by their name, and only add more description when it's a work-related situation and it is practically relevant, or when it's one of my relatives, in which case I feel it's respectful to acknowledge the type of relationship.

I don't do this when it comes to friends or lovers - then I just use their names. I would actually feel worse making it sound like I own any of these people or have a stamp on them. I tend to have strong negative feelings about people trying to put ownership on each-other in personal relationships.

WMJ1012

My parents call my brother's live-in girlfriend his wife.
I know a guy who calls his longtime live-in girlfriend his wife.
What I noticed is that when honesty is really called for, these people call the others what they really are.

I used to say "open AA" instead of "meetings other than Big Book studies" for conversation's sake...it was easier and shorter. But the truth is, an "open" meeting is any AA meeting listed as "open".

So I feel it's best to find another way, or a shorter way, to say things as they really are. People don't have to know the history.

Riverbird

Wait...what?

If I'm telling people about a trip I'm taking I say "I'm going to visit my brother," (or my friend, or whoever). If I say, "I'm going to visit John," then the next question naturally is, "Who is John?" How do I answer that without using "my"? If I say, "John is John" I think the friends that I associate with but do not lay claim to nor deem myself special because of, would probably get annoyed with me rather quickly! Sorry but I really don't get this one! lol

(Oh, and as I think about it I do totally deem myself special because of MY friends. My friends are awesome people, and I love that they care about me and want to be around me. I didn't have that before and that is extremely special to me...so yeah I might just brag about it. I have true, quality friends! )