Lead, follow or get out of the way
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
No offense Soul Sister but that sounds like a recipe for mediocrity.
I have an alpha personality and I am naturally a go getter so whatever venture I get into I tend to end up in leadership role. There is nothing wrong with that, now what I have to watch out are the same qualities which makes me a good organizer are also some of my character defects.
This of course is in my broader life context.
When it comes to my participation in AA, I really like what Tommy wrote
I have an alpha personality and I am naturally a go getter so whatever venture I get into I tend to end up in leadership role. There is nothing wrong with that, now what I have to watch out are the same qualities which makes me a good organizer are also some of my character defects.
This of course is in my broader life context.
When it comes to my participation in AA, I really like what Tommy wrote
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by Carlotta 
No offense Soul Sister but that sounds like a recipe for mediocrity.
I have an alpha personality and I am naturally a go getter so whatever venture I get into I tend to end up in leadership role. There is nothing wrong with that, now what I have to watch out are the same qualities which makes me a good organizer are also some of my character defects.
This of course is in my broader life context.
When it comes to my participation in AA, I really like what Tommy wrote
I have an alpha personality and I am naturally a go getter so whatever venture I get into I tend to end up in leadership role. There is nothing wrong with that, now what I have to watch out are the same qualities which makes me a good organizer are also some of my character defects.
This of course is in my broader life context.
When it comes to my participation in AA, I really like what Tommy wrote
Anyway...I will just back my way out of this one.
Have at it all.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Originally Posted by dSober
I've always bought this. Especially when it comes to work, politics, etc. My time here at SR has me thinking more about it. What do you all think?
Lead, follow or get out of the way....if it comes to politics, isn't that what Hitler did?
On a personal basis, my feeling is life would be very boring if there really were only three choices....and a resentment waiting to happen if I really believed anyone on the receiving end of such an approach would respond to it favourably
Finally, for AA, the best teachers I come across, are those who lead by example, not by any notion of authority
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Sounds like one of those "motivational" posters...ha ha. Not sure I could direct my life according to some twee phrase like that, but I imagine it's a blueprint for some. I have had problems with that all-or-nothing type thinking (the other being "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"), so it's not about putting myself in a category, but just doing what I can and being of service. If that puts me in a place where I am able to lead in some fashion, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. Certainly at work, I am paid to lead and manage and direct, so that's different. But in the grand scheme of things, I am just content to go where the Creator nudges me. Sounds a bit airy-fairy, but it's worked for me so far
Recovered from Hopeless State
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
Originally Posted by Pipefish
Finally, for AA, the best teachers I come across, are those who lead by example, not by any notion of authority
Step 3 too but as many know, step 3) is a toughie for some
Recovered from Hopeless State
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
Originally Posted by Pipefish
Lead, follow or get out of the way....if it comes to politics, isn't that what Hitler did?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
I try to steer clear of phrases that start with "I'm this kind of person".
A little time in recovery has taught me life is frequently a surprise if I can let go of who I think I am and try to find out whats really going on
P
A little time in recovery has taught me life is frequently a surprise if I can let go of who I think I am and try to find out whats really going on
P
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
I've heard a fuller quote which to me expresses the original mindset behind it (Not that I'm saying anyone here subscribes to this interpretation).
People are not sheep or cattle to me.
I'm guess I'm hanging with the ones getting out the way
D
General George S. Patton also “is reported” to have said, "We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way."
I'm guess I'm hanging with the ones getting out the way
D
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by SoulSister
Lead, follow, or get out of the way?
What page is that on?
My sponsor always encouraged me to just try and be one of many.
What page is that on?
My sponsor always encouraged me to just try and be one of many.
SoulSister, I think the page you are looking for is page 86, third para.
"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."
Perhaps our meditation and prayer will reveal which course to take. What is God's will for me? Must I lead, follow, or get out of the way?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by Gottalife
This is a nice post. It reminds me way back in early sobriety, when I was having delusions of grandeur to which I was quite prone, my sponsor used to say "Michael, settle for being ordinary"
SoulSister, I think the page you are looking for is page 86, third para.
"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."
Perhaps our meditation and prayer will reveal which course to take. What is God's will for me? Must I lead, follow, or get out of the way?
SoulSister, I think the page you are looking for is page 86, third para.
"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."
Perhaps our meditation and prayer will reveal which course to take. What is God's will for me? Must I lead, follow, or get out of the way?
on page 87:
"That we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we
be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only."
AA taught me to stop praying for myself. Before AA my prayers were always
plea bargains with HP = "God if you get me out of this one, I promise I will never do it again." (Right) Those prayers seldom worked.........
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by paul99
But in the grand scheme of things, I am just content to go where the Creator nudges me. Sounds a bit airy-fairy, but it's worked for me so far
(12&12 page 36)
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by Gottalife
This is a nice post. It reminds me way back in early sobriety, when I was having delusions of grandeur to which I was quite prone, my sponsor used to say "Michael, settle for being ordinary"
SoulSister, I think the page you are looking for is page 86, third para.
"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."
Perhaps our meditation and prayer will reveal which course to take. What is God's will for me? Must I lead, follow, or get out of the way?
SoulSister, I think the page you are looking for is page 86, third para.
"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."
Perhaps our meditation and prayer will reveal which course to take. What is God's will for me? Must I lead, follow, or get out of the way?
I never thought about it this way...that I would be asking God to show me if I should lead, follow or get out of the way.
I understood it to be one person telling another person.
Thank you for suggesting this way to see it.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by Boleo
"If I keep on turning my life and my will over to the care of Something or Somebody else, what will become of me? I'll look like the hole in the doughnut." This, of course, is the process by which instinct and logic always seek to bolster egotism, and so frustrate spiritual development. The trouble is that this kind of thinking takes no real account of the facts. And the facts seem to be these: The more we become willing to depend upon a Higher Power, the more independent we actually are. Therefore dependence, as A.A. practices it, is really a means of gaining true independence of the spirit."
(12&12 page 36)
(12&12 page 36)
He mentioned this passage and the idea of that if we let go of our wants...will we be left with the hole in the donut?
Sandy B. from Tampa, FL speaking on the topic of “Spiritual Principles” in Marietta, GA – October 2002
http://recoveryradionetwork.podcastp...om/posts/31379
55 minutes in...almost to the end...he mentions this...but the whole talk is amazing!
If we let go and let God...and surrender our will...will that be futile? I mean I am supposed to make it happen...."it"!...yeah right... look what a good job I have done making it all happen...not.
He said we won't be the hole in the donut. We will become an instrument of Thy peace.
I must have listened to 5 talks of his last night after reading DT mention Sandy on another thread.
I could have listened to him all night.
His talks on letting go are so helpful for me.
Recovered from Hopeless State
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
Man, I am ever glad I opened this thread first thing this AM. Maybe something told me to do it, lol.
I woke up in a really crappy mood. I didn't like it. The last few posts helped. Thanks guys (and gals)!
I think I'll read 'em again before I move on...
I woke up in a really crappy mood. I didn't like it. The last few posts helped. Thanks guys (and gals)!
I think I'll read 'em again before I move on...
Recovered from Hopeless State
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
God, please help me through the rest of my day as you just did first thing this morning.
Help me get down on my knees before I sleep so you can guide my dreams.
Help me get down on my knees before I sleep so you can guide my dreams.
Recovered from Hopeless State
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
Just started listening Sis. "AA is the world's largest lost and found department." LOL!
I wish it was a video. I'm a visual kinda guy but hopefully I'll struggle through
I wish it was a video. I'm a visual kinda guy but hopefully I'll struggle through
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by SoulSister
If we let go and let God...and surrender our will...will that be futile? I mean I am supposed to make it happen...."it"!...yeah right... look what a good job I have done making it all happen...not.
He said we won't be the hole in the donut. We will become an instrument of Thy peace.
He said we won't be the hole in the donut. We will become an instrument of Thy peace.
Spiritual Detachment does not detach me from the responsibility of the situation, but rather it detach's me from the result. I still care enough to do my part. I recognize that I only have a small part in the grand scheme of things. I trust my Higher Power to do his/hers/it's part. Then I detach from the outcome.
Success or failure is not mine to pocket.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by Boleo
The concept of the "Hole in the donut" is what I call Spiritual Detachment. Not to be confused with psychological detachment. Which is closer to apathy.
Spiritual Detachment does not detach me from the responsibility of the situation, but rather it detach's me from the result. I still care enough to do my part. I recognize that I only have a small part in the grand scheme of things. I trust my Higher Power to do his/hers/it's part. Then I detach from the outcome.
Success or failure is not mine to pocket.
Spiritual Detachment does not detach me from the responsibility of the situation, but rather it detach's me from the result. I still care enough to do my part. I recognize that I only have a small part in the grand scheme of things. I trust my Higher Power to do his/hers/it's part. Then I detach from the outcome.
Success or failure is not mine to pocket.
The spiritual result, full recovery, happy joyous and free, not to be confused with the psychological result of realistic attainment, not drinking for the time being.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
In the same way could this lead to the result?
"Holy indifference means that we come to a place where our interior attitude is one of complete openness. We are willing to do whatever God wills. There are no boxes marked “private,” instead we have released any agendas and our inclinations to manipulate the outcome to suit our hopes. In our interior being the first priority is to know that we are where God wants us to be. Karl Rahner contends, “This distance from things is a goal that must always be re-won again and again.”
As soon as I mentioned “holy indifference” I could see a connection on the face of the woman who sat across the table. It was as if everything became easier. The burden of having to make a decision, the right decision, was lifted. What mattered was attitude, not outcome.
The concept of holy indifference involves “naming and laying aside anything that will deter the person or group from focusing on God’s will as the ultimate value.” When we reach this state of interior freedom we care about the outcome in a way that leaves everything wide open for God to act. There is a confidence that settles in because you have a deep sense that his sovereignty is being honored in a way that insures the outcome."
Holy Indifference And Decision-Making | SoulFormation
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