Wendolene

Hello everyone,

I have already posted this in 'Newcomers to Recovery', but was told that I would get a better response if I posted in this sub-forum.

It will be 3 months since my last drink tomorrow, and I plan on collecting my 3 month chip tonight at my local AA meeting.

I am having a bit of a rough patch at the moment, however, and have been questioning whether AA will ever work for me. I completed my Step One whilst I was in rehab, but I feel I can progress no further until I have learnt to let the 'higher power' concept into my life. As a scientist and an atheist (a former Christian who lost her faith somewhere down the line), I am not a particularly 'spiritual' person. I did attend a very interesting meeting last week, which highlighted that not everyone sitting in the circle with me was indeed religious, but they were able to share about what their higher power was. One woman commented on how it is like a butterfly. If you chase it, it will elude you, whereas, if you stand still, it will settle on your shoulder when you least expect it. I have tried to take this comment on board, but I feel like I am heading towards a relapse and that the conventional medical route I am taking (Pregabalin for my very severe, almost 24/7 anxiety focused around conscious control of my breathing and hyperventilation) is not helping at all, after about 6 weeks. If I visit the GP, she just suggests that I increase my dose, which makes the side effects (dizziness, etc.) worse. I have tried lots of medication - mainly antidepressants, which are prescribed with Valium. I then come off the Valium, and persevere with the antidepressant for a few weeks, after which time, I feel my anxiety hit the roof, I can't sleep, and feel suicidal. I really don't want to have to go down this route again.

I'm just interested really in hearing from people with a similar background to me and if AA worked for them. One reason I still attend the meetings is the social contact with other people. I appreciate the way that a lot of us are there to support and cheer each other on, and I would miss that if I were to stop it. I am based in the UK, by the way.

in advance!

Wendolene
___________

Tommyh

congratulations on your 3 months

there was several things that held me back on the spiritual side
one was my old preconceived ideas about God,religion etc

one night at a meeting a lady told me to set aside those old ideas and just ask "who ever or what ever that might be out there" to help me stay sober.I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.I never knew I could do that.I thought I was stuck with my belief,which was barriers I had built in my own mind over those years of my drinking.

so,thats how I started plus I used the old version of step 2
I came to believe that AA could help me stay sober

later on I used the spiritual principles of
unselfishness,honesty,purity and love some to help
then one day I had realized I had come to believe that there was "something" else
in this universe besides humans

Music

I had the same problem. I had to separate "spiritual" from "religious". EVERYTHING about AA is spiritual. There is no "spiritual side"! Every step but the first one is based on spiritual principles. If you let "spiritual" stand in your way or hold you back from getting sober, you're making a grave error in judgment. Spiritual is a personal and private relationship with a power greater than myself. Religious is still personal to me but is generally shared by many others and the "higher power" is most often times shared by those same others as in the Christian church.

sugarbear1

do you have a sponsor?

Coldfusion

My wife and I are atheist, and AA worked for us. The people in AA are not perfect, but it is simply the best program that is available in most places. For example, an agnostic meeting was started here on a night when there was no meeting. We take down the 12-step poster and pass around a folder with various alternate versions of the 12-steps which do not mention God. But after a while, it became a forum for religious types to spout off about how much God was doing in their lives.

We found that we had to strive for the humility to accept that we were as imperfect as those around us, and we all strive to better ourselves in different ways.

Agricola

If you haven't already, I suggest reading the chapter on step Two in the 12 and 12. It describes the issue you are having, and was helpful to me.

One thing that helped me bridge the gap towards spirituality was this: By completely admitting alcohol was a higher power, one that I could recognize as more powerful than me, I came closer to understanding a higher power that could also restore me to sanity. That is to say that by recognizing ANY higher power, I came closer to recognizing the concept of a higher power period. It is still hard for me to feel a conscious contact with a higher power; I've never had a burning bush type moment. Still, I do feel a spiritual connection to the program and do feel something at work in my life. I can't define it, but it is there and day by day my life is getting better.

badger1

Hi.

I too am a 'non-believer' agnostic and I have had 1 year in AA. When I realized I had problems with alcohol, I tried to get help. Looked up AA online and the GOD word put me off. Then it got real bad and I realized I needed help. I got to AA and was fortunate to find a sponsor who is 12 years sober and an atheist. He said basically start with the idea that whatever the HP is, it is not you. Start with that. That we alcoholics have NO power over our alcoholic self. That surrender is the most important part of the start of recovery.

Then you just have to find a version of HP that will help you do the steps. See, I thought that I have to come up with a concept of HP that I have to defend as a Thesis for a Masters in Divinity. That is not true at all. What you need is a concept of a power greater than yourselves that will help you do the program. And as we progress in our sobriety our concept of HP keeps changing. For me it already has. Please do not conflate religion with spirituality. AA is not religious at all. OTOH, it is a spiritual program at it's core. Tap into that.

I have blogged about this here. Look under step 3 and see if it helps you.

Hope you find a concept of HP that works for you, OP. BTW, Wendolene, congrats on your 3 months. This is HUGE. I remember a sense of accomplishment that came when I finished my 90in90. But remember, although it is a very good idea to celebrate our AA anniversaries, the program is a day-to-day affair. As the BB says, "what we have is a daily reprieve from alcoholism subject to our spiritual condition". Or something like that.

MercyStreet

I struggled with the same thing and put off the idea of joining AA for a long time. Happily, I've just started going to an agnostics' group and it's working well for me. And I don't mind submitting to something higher than myself; at this point, having hit rock bottom, everything is higher than where I am. I just want to look up and, hopefully, see some blue sky again.

sober35

"much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider anothers conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was to make the approach to effect a contact with Him"

"we found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him."

Page 46 big book.

When I came into AA i was severely depressed on Antidepressants. and was at my bottom. My first sponsor asked me if I believed in God, and I said something like no, hell no, there's no way a there is a god I hate god. He said okay, you can come up with your own God. he handed me a piece of paper and told me to write to a few qualities you want your god to have. I said kind, loving, and all powerful. he said great now you have a god of your own understanding. he told me to pray to that god for a few weeks. then I did steps 4-9, and I really felt the power of God in my life.

GracieLou

For a while the people in AA were my higher power in the sense that combined they were a power greater than me.

I had no religion or predetermined God concept when I went to AA. I felt there was a God but not sure what to think about all the spiritual stuff or prayer.

I honestly felt stupid when I prayed, like WTF is this supposed to do?

I was afraid to be vunerable, I was afraid to tell anyone, even that invisiable being, that I wanted and needed help. I cried like a baby several times when I tried to pray and ended up feeling worse then when I started but I kept at it. Not every day but here and there.

Then I started to see things happen, situations and people came into my life at times when it seemed I needed them most. My faith grew that something was coming into play other than coincidence.

At times it seems like I run on pure faith while other times I can feel my HP all around me. I feel it is a process and for some it comes quickly and with others, like me, it comes gradual but steady.

I am also reminded of a song, "some of Gods greatest gifts are unanswered prayers".

To me, that means I give it to him and then what will be, will be.

I call my HP God by default but it really can be anything you wish, it is the practice of giving it over that counts. It is taking the control that I have always wanted accomplish and giving to my HP. Once I hand it over I feel lighter and it is easier to accept that whatever happens, happens.

Gottalife

I came in a total non believer , more out of prejudice and ignorance than anything else. By three moths I had had a spiritual awakening as the result of working the first nine steps, and, through continuing to live in the last three, have not needed a drink for quite a while, no matter what.

The belief or faith in a higher power comes as a result of working the steps. For me I began to feel it around step 5.

So what about step 2 I here you say. I don't believe so I can't go any further. Step 2 is not about having faith in a higher power. It's really a simple matter of choosing a method of recovery, using the evidence of your own eyes and ears, and putting that together with your experience.

It says we reached a point where we believed there was a possibility that the same power that worked for those sober AAs might or could possibly work for me too. That's it. If you are not even willing to consider the possibility, then a spiritual program, where spiritual experience is at the heart of recovery, is unlikely to work for you.

Instead, perhaps, you would come to believe some other method, medication, treatment, rehab, will power, or what ever, will provide the answer.

Most of us tried everything else first and finally, as the last resort, when all else failed, we came to believe that it might be possible for us to recover on a spiritual basis, that a power greater than ourselves could help us, if it were sought. The whole program is about making that happen.

There comes a point in the progression of this illness where total abstinence is the only solution. Many are able to bring this about on a non spiritual basis, but it is well know that for a small percentage of us at the bottom of the heap, some sort of conversion experience is essential to bring about recovery. Further, no medical means has yet been found that will bring about such an experience.

The best medicine can do on its own (with alcoholics of my type) is what is called here "harm minimisation". At least he's not drinking, but neither does he have any kind of a life. It's not too different to palliative care. Just minimise the suffering while we wait for the end.

The spiritual approach offers a great deal more than that. All that is required to make a start is a willingness to believe. I could buy that, provided I saw some evidence along the way. The evidence was forthcoming, I just had to be willing.

Johnston

Open discussion meetings in the metro areas tend to be more secular. You might have some luck there. When I (very occasionally) go to meetings I'm up front about my agnosticism. I usually don't feel too judged. The only requirement for membership....

Gottalife

Some good advice on reading about step 2 in the 12 and 12 above.

The directions for taking step two are on page 47.

"We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone, a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built"

It's much simpler than it looks.

Music

My perception of a higher power has changed dramatically since coming to AA but I'd just like to say one thing. Anyone who's trying to change their life by getting sober has to make an adjustment from doing what they want to do, to doing what they ought to do. Steps 2 through 12 are tools to help me distinguish between right and wrong and adhere to those "morals" instead of living in that "free for all" state of mind I had when drinking. Our 12 principles are grounded in religious doctrine however, religion is not required in order to be an AA member nor to succeed in the working of those 12 principles so as to gain sobriety. I believe that's why the founders used the word "spiritual" instead of religious. I came to AA with very real anti-religious attitude but I was able to grasp the idea of my own conception of a higher power, and I even got to the point where I could refer to it as God. My sponsor told me I had to soften my attitude because rigidity would be my downfall if I didn't. He told me to just bend a little and be flexible so that I could at least give myself a fighting chance at sobriety. Honesty, Open mind and Willing. That's HOW it works.

Johnston

@music, very well said ^^^

justanothrdrunk

What helped me, as someone who was in a similar situation/mindset as you described, is to think of it first as a mind-hack.

The net result of giving yourself up to a HP is that you can clearly define what you are and are not in control of.

As an actively drinking alcoholic, I though I was in control - master of my own destiny. The spiritual side of the program helped me understand that I am master of very little.

My HP did not need to be any sort of omniscient, omnipresent, supreme being - creator of the known universe. My HP needs only to be greater than me. And it doesn't take much to be greater than me.

Can you accept the possibility that there is something intangible, undefinable out there which has more power than you? Again, not necessarily the supreme being. If so, then all you need to do is start looking for it with the hope of a better understanding of it - not complete understanding mind you. Just look, that's all.

CAPTAINZING2000

Just the very remote possibility of our existence makes me believe.

20 Arguments For God's Existence | Strange Notions

deeker

Big Book On Line

Here is the 12 and 12 book , check out step 2

Grungehead

Step Two: “Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.”

Step 10 Promises: And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality—safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

Alcoholics Anonymous pp.84-85

My belief in a Higher Power came as a result of the steps, not a prerequisite in order to do them. I didn't even have to believe, I just had to be willing to believe. By the time I finished Step 9 I had been restored to sanity, and I darn well know I didn't do that myself.

fraankie

hey, 90 days
congrats
that's a miracle in itself


best
fraankie