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Old 10-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Two Higher Powers?

I tend to believe in nature as a higher power. But I also believe in the power of fellow alcoholics/ the tables as a higher power. I never really reconciled this when I was doing my first step 2, and I often find myself switching between the two when I'm deep in thought at meetings. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to reconcile this? Would be much appreciated.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, If you deny a separation between creator and the created it really doesn't need to be reconciled. God as I (don't) understand God reveals himself and speaks to me in nature and through the people in meetings. God fully exists in both, and each have something different to say from God.

Don't know if that helps or not, but it's what I got.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with using nature as a higher power but I'd never use people around the tables as such. I had to ask myself what would happen if one of my higher powers went back out and got drunk? I believe God is nature and all things in it. He created it and I need a SUPER natural Higher Power to help me not to drink. One that's omnipotent....perfect.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Maybe the switch is because neither is fulfilling what it is you're looking for. Maybe it's time to be willing to consider some new conceptions and/or be willing to let go of some old ideas regarding what God is/isn't and try to do some new objective seeking?

I had a LOT of higher powers......so many it was a shame (as one of my buddies says it). At first it was a therapist, then I switched to a girlfriend and the therapist, then back to the therapist and AA as a whole, then just AA as a whole, then it was the steps/book. Now, I like to think it's God but there's a lot of evidence in my inventory to the contrary.

The God of my understanding is cool with all of that. He's also cool with religious beliefs of all kinds, using nature, using anything.......... I've found using myself/my intellect/my brain didn't work out so well as it tends to lead me away from anything being more important or smart then me. It also has led to stressed relationships......so I don't recommend that one.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I tend to believe in nature as a higher power. But I also believe in the power of fellow alcoholics/ the tables as a higher power.
I understand this.

I can witness a beautiful day and think of my HP and yet I can sit in a church basement with a group of drunks and feel the exact same awe.

I have started to see a HP as working through others in my life. The people in the rooms and the friends I have made are a creation of a HP.

Instead of seeing them as separate, they are pieces of the same whole. Slices of the larger pie. I am also a person in those rooms. I belong there, I help others there and receive help there. I am also part of the whole.

I used to think there were coincidences but there have been way to many in the last 7 months for me to think that way anymore. He has given me slices of the pie over and over again, I only need to grab them and then apply them.

The "whole" is very large and there is always space from more, always. It never gets full it just gets larger. As I have been walking this journey I have found that some of the pieces had fallen out but they do not leave an empty space, they are always replaced with a person, a belief or a feeling.

I do not think that the HP I have now will be the one I have a year from now because it is not the one I had a year ago.

As I change, it will change but it will never leave as long as I continue to pray for willingness, strength and guidance. The more I give myself to my HP the stronger I become.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Any thoughts or suggestions on how to reconcile this? Would be much appreciated.
Try posting this again in:

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Old 10-27-2013, 07:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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It's good that you identify this with step 2.
We Agnostics (Step 2) addresses out worship of people.
I only worship God.
No one in AA is my HP
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It's whatever works for you.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would suggest service within AA. A few solid experiences with business meetings may well resolve the question of the group as your higher power.

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Old 10-28-2013, 08:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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... but I'd never use people around the tables as such. I had to ask myself what would happen if one of my higher powers went back out and got drunk?...
Some show us how to stay sober, others show us how not to stay sober. We can learn from them all. It's the collective of AA (meetings, program, people) that I use as a higher power, rather than each individual.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's entirely up to you which higher power you choose. And you can choose another HP tomorrow. Just so it isn't you, lol. For me GOD = Group of Drunks. It's worked for two decades.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think there are lots of things that have more power than me. Not that I ever prioritized them, but if I did, I'm sure there's be an order. My concept of god (which is akin to your nature HP) is however without a doubt at the top of that list. The MOST powerful. And that's the one I pray to, and use in all the steps. FWIW, my HP doesn't fit the traditional definition for the word "god", but I use the word god, because it works. 100%. I'd never consider any of the other things I believe to have more power than me, god. And I fer sure wouldn't turn my life and will over them either. Maybe for 90 days, but I'm waaay past that.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I believe that they're just different manifestations of the same God
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Good advice all. I've found myself praying lately, even if I'm not really sure what I'm praying to. This is a long way from where I was even when I had 4 months sobriety. After the last relapse I just started talking to a higher power, saying I surrender. I went to catholic school for 12 years which turned me off from religion and this is the first time I've done anything like praying in a long time. I think it's a good sign, I feel more a "part" of the program now.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm glad you believe in something. The 12x12 says that using the group as a higher power is a common occurrence. Bear in mind that the higher power in the aforementioned is not capitalized just as it is not capitalized in the 12x12 when used in that statement. Another thing to remember is that for our groups purpose there is one Ultimate Authority. A loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. So says Tradition #2. Sounds like you're on the right track. I'd go with it until the time comes that you begin to refer to your Higher Power as "God". Many people come in with many different beliefs. "Eventually they began to talk about God". That's in the 12x12 as well.
And please. If nothing else. Do not confuse God with Organized Religion. There's a world of difference. A lot of the reality of God gets lost when you get the message delivered by people who try to stuff God into a building they visit on Sundays.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I believe the reality of God gets lost when you get the message delivered by people who try to stuff God into a building they visit for AA Meetings. These people talk of the HP, the HP has always been there, us addicts have not spoken to him and heard his word. Listen to him and talk to him, he listens. How about like said previously, your HP at AA gets drunk, where are you left. I believe we all have the power to do what we want because its a disease and when you have it you make a choice to live the disease or do something about it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I believe the reality of God gets lost when you get the message delivered by people who try to stuff God into a building they visit for AA Meetings. These people talk of the HP, the HP has always been there, us addicts have not spoken to him and heard his word. Listen to him and talk to him, he listens. How about like said previously, your HP at AA gets drunk, where are you left. I believe we all have the power to do what we want because its a disease and when you have it you make a choice to live the disease or do something about it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is, or He isn't. What was our choice to be?
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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"...When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is, or He isn't. What was our choice to be?..."

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Stick to the book, keep it simple
Well, pmv, there are many AAer's who disagree with some/many parts of the BB. Most of my recovered friends are Atheists; so their answer to the above questions would be "nothing" and "isn't" yet they're all clean/sober 30 years, at least............something must be working.

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