mrschoices

The book's directions are clear. We Take responsibility for our behavior.

However I was also taught to rely on God, my experience and to feel between the lines on the pages.

Narcissistic dry drunk family members pull you into dysfunction and one day you react when you're not spiritually fit.

You say awful things in retaliation and they get your power...you are not an example of the BB and what you do must not work...they have disproved you and gotten relief...they own you once again (ouch!!)

Do you actually go back and make amends for reacting?
And why or not?

mrschoices

I should also say that when I finally reacted with angry words and tried to tell them what they were doing (I know, my bad), I was threatened with the "legal system" and told I need to get "mental health help" or go to a hospital. They hate spirituality and recovery and will stop at nothing to keep me appearing as the "bad One"...I don't know if apologizing is the answer, it might keep me in a "helpless, victim" role...but correct me if I'm wrong.

And please, no heroes. Martyrdom is a defect.

MarkLaa

Martyrdom is a defect. I couldn't agree more!

I recently had an outburst, an angry outburst. Not dis similar to the one you described. After the event (a day later - once I saw my part in it) I told those concerned that I should not have reacted the way I did - That my behaviour was wrong. I retracted any nasty names/accusations and basically cleaned up the mess I made.

I did not say that I should not have felt the way I did. I did not say that what they did was acceptable. I did not act like a victim and I did not act like a martyr or hero.

I apologised for the way I acted (or reacted) on that emotion. That was my part in the problem.

To suggest that anger is wrong to me suggests perfection and perfection is a defect too!! However, I know the dangers of anger and the folly of justifiable anger.

There was a better way I could have handled the situation and I did not. Amends was necessary for me.

MIRecovery

This is something I would dicuss with my sponsor because each situation is different. That said as long as you have worked steps 1 through 9, and your sponsor agrees, you need to make amends for your part as long as it does no harm to the other person.

keithj

Absolutely. Except I don't make the amends for reacting. That tends to put the blame on someone else, as in, "I'm sorry I reacted to your moronic baiting of me" or "I'm sorry I let your asinine and warped personality get to me." That kind of thing won't do at all. Instead, I focus on the behavior I did that harmed you, as in, "It was wrong of me to call you a big craphead." ;-)

Your opening sentence covered this. Because the directions are clear.

tomsteve

"Do you actually go back and make amends for reacting? "
heres something i could use as an example:
it buggers me sometimes when i read or hear people using "you...."
theres been a few times i have said,"nope, not me. now quit screwin around and talk about yourself."
do i make amends? no
i take my inventory and admit the delivery of the message wasn't proper.

paulokes

I like this from the 12 and 12,step 4:
"if my disturbance was seemingly caused by the behavior of others, why do I lack the ability to accept conditions I cannot change?"

That question takes some serious consideration on my part.

Sometimes the thing that I cannot or will not do is simply walk away.

P

Boleo

Yes - the sooner the better. Not 100% of the time though. It depends on whether I think there will be more to be made in the near future with the same person. Making the same amends twice kind of seems disingenuous.

mrschoices

I will make the amends honestly, only addressing my part of course, but I do need to detach almost completely (if not totally) from them for at least a year.

It is God's will for me, them and Him. I have known this since the end of my writing process. Financial problems have kept me from doing this but I am determined.

muvinon

If you are financially dependent, then that sets the stage for all kinds of sticky interactions and resentments.

mrschoices

THANK YOU for picking up on that.
I have never gotten healthy enough from long term trauma to sleep well. I am emotionally and physically exhausted all the time and can't work due to the PTSD around my father's emotional abuse.

It is 3 years since I realized what he was doing psychologically (I came out of denial in step 4 and ice been trying to get away from them but cannot make it work so I am at his mercy and he knows it.

When he wants relief he sabotages me in some way.

This is why I am afraid to make amenss. He will use it against me in a court etc just when I'm about to get away etc

It's difficult for others to understand this exhaustion and sleep issue. Believe me if I could get out from under And work I would do it in a second.

He makes me beg for crumbs of money to barely exist. It's incredibly humiliating but I can't get out I've tried to work and I show up absolutely wiped out with exhaustion.
He needles me or messes with another relationship of mine through control and when I react he gets relief and points the finger again. He is an isolating, sabotaging, punishing abuser who KNOWS he's got me stuck.

DayTrader

I'm so intimately familiar with the first sentence I quoted above it's a shame. The difference for me was that this person wasn't dry and he was my dad. I thought, even in sobriety, a whole lot of bad things about him for quite a while: narcissist, mean, a-hole, bully.... and there were MANY more.

At first I didn't make amends because I believed he MADE me retaliate. He put me, repeatedly.....and often while he was drunk....into situations that I couldn't avoid and once in there I felt I had no choice BUT to act out. I spoke to my sponsor and we both believed that once I was into whatever the "game" for the day was, the odds of me maintaining any spirituality was close to zero - even though I was CONVINCED that one day I'd let his stuff just go over my head and I wouldn't react........(sound familiar? just like drinking huh?). So, while it hurt my dad for me to stay away, it hurt him more if I got involved, started playing the game, and lashed out.

I also didn't make amends to him for it. Without going into great detail, it was a case of doing so would injure him further. So there I was.... I couldn't talk to him / get involved in the game anymore, which hurt him, and I couldn't make amends for my past because that would hurt him.

Over about a two year period - one year of trying to be a part of his life but continually getting into fights and so on and another year of no communication at all - I did a lot of inventorying and even more praying. I learned to forgive. I stopped using terms like jerk, sick-o, immature, narcissist, and so forth because I wasn't judging him as bad anymore......I was able to see he was sick, sick just like me, only his sickness manifested in different ways than mine.

Hadn't there been times when I goaded ppl into arguments? Hadn't there been times when I picked a fight just so I could win at something? Hadn't there been times when I was soooooooo spiritually barren that I'd do just about anything to anyone? Sure, to all those questions. I saw and believed he was a very sick person - again, just like me.

At the end of that second year......my dad passed away. I never did get the chance to make face-to-face amends. Never had the opportunity to do them over the phone even. And ya know......that's ok. Part of my "amends" was not harming him anymore - which I did by staying apart and by praying.

The saying I'm sorry part....that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted to do to make ME feel better. I didn't really want to do them for him...I wanted to get the weight and guilt of what I'd done off my chest. I didn't make them because with good sponsorship and a closer examination of motives + a closer relationship with MY God, it was obvious that the best I could do for him was to not aggravate him anymore (which, at the end, just the mention of my name sent him off into an alcoholic spiral for days - and honestly, I don't think it was me he hated but it made it sense to his mind to direct all that hate he did have toward someone....) and to pray for him.

He died a year ago....and I still haven't done anything about making those amends. I planned to write a letter.......haven't done it. Planned to go to his grave......haven't done it. And ya.....I need to. Just being honest - even though I'd like to say I went and made amends because I know to, have experienced how great the process is, and know that it'll be good for me.

mrschoices

Phew
That felt good to get out
I'm gonna go through the steps again

mrschoices

Yes. Making amends to them would hurt them more. No details needed.
Also we can't heal in situations like these.
My brain is overloaded with trauma, I'm in constant fight or flight.

DayTrader

It was vital for me to get a second set of eyes on my situation - objective eyes. When I'm involved, as much as I think I can be, I can't REALLY be objective. If you're willing, or when you're willing, let someone know what's really going on and let them help you decide the best course of action.

I was able to go to my dad's funeral and let him pass away (not like I had to allow it, but u know what i mean) with no guilty conscience on my part.

mrschoices

Losing my peace for a while is part of my process.
From my spiritual teacher

mrschoices

I got my thinking straight and am doing the amends.
No more reasoning, just following principles.
I will leave the outcome in Gods hands and get the growth

sugarbear1

my sponsor reminds me that saying, "I'm sorry you're an idiot" is NOT an amends.....

it just feeds my ego...

muvinon

Where I live there are sober living houses, where people can live for virtually nothing or very low cost. They are a lifesaver for many.


Check out resources.

PaperDolls

I have often had to apologize/make amends for my reactions or anger in my words. I've learned that sometimes I need to make amends for how I acted while not taking back my words (depending on the situation).

If making these amends would put you in a bad place financially, legally, etc .... may be they can wait? Something you should talk with your sponsor about for sure. She will know more details and be able to call you out if needed.

Also -- on the sober house idea. It's a GREAT idea!! I lived in on Oxford House for two years, one of the best things I did for my recovery. If you have any questions I'm happy to talk with you about it.