A New Low At The AA Club......
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
"If we were to live we had to be free of anger. Two parties involved in this scenario. The poster and the thief. Only one is here inquiring about experience"
There are a lot more than 2 parties now, seems to me the resentment/anger is being directed at the OP from a number of parties that commented and judged the man.
If you read back the posts look how many negative ones there are directed towards the OP - see for yourself.
Bad form In my humble opinion.
There are a lot more than 2 parties now, seems to me the resentment/anger is being directed at the OP from a number of parties that commented and judged the man.
If you read back the posts look how many negative ones there are directed towards the OP - see for yourself.
Bad form In my humble opinion.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Sobersanity. -- perhaps you're new to AA and/or spiritual princilples. No problem, they seem odd at first.
The person who stole the money isn't here asking for advice or feedback. There's no sense in speaking to that person. Obviously, to do such a thing they're spiritually sick - but they're not here for any of us to suggest they take a look at what they're doing.
On the other hand, the original poster IS here. Just because what I said and what some others said may seem "harsh" to you doesn't mean it IS harsh.
Our book says things like "resentment is the number on offender" and "constan thought of god and others" and growing in "usefulness and effectiveness to god and others" ..... Not to mention the 12th step which directs us to carry the AA message to others who are suffering. If Im walking around town and he Ipper on my pants is down, I'd want someone to tell me. What you're mistakenly calling harsh judgement is actually gentle reminders said with love of another alcoholic by ppl like me who posted them.
The person who stole the money isn't here asking for advice or feedback. There's no sense in speaking to that person. Obviously, to do such a thing they're spiritually sick - but they're not here for any of us to suggest they take a look at what they're doing.
On the other hand, the original poster IS here. Just because what I said and what some others said may seem "harsh" to you doesn't mean it IS harsh.
Our book says things like "resentment is the number on offender" and "constan thought of god and others" and growing in "usefulness and effectiveness to god and others" ..... Not to mention the 12th step which directs us to carry the AA message to others who are suffering. If Im walking around town and he Ipper on my pants is down, I'd want someone to tell me. What you're mistakenly calling harsh judgement is actually gentle reminders said with love of another alcoholic by ppl like me who posted them.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by Justfor1 
I have very little compassion for others. When I was in my addiction I received very little sympathy. In & out of hospitals,treatment centers, recovery homes and jail. It helps me stay sober to realize that I was a true criminal besides a "sick' alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by DayTrader
You may want to re-look at the 3rd step and consider how long an alcoholic can suspect to live under self-propulsion, judging the world and playing God and stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel
Do you think that your anger at this guy might have something to do with how you feel about yourself and your actions?
hes upset because a man stole from a charity.
Human nature - not some "look at Yourself for your faults" because this upsets you.
Why wouldnt it upset him he is a human being
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hey, sobersanity... try to keep a couple things in mind... This section of SR is the 12 step section... support for people using the 12 steps for recovery... So that's where these threads ought to go.
One of the most important lessons we learn in AA is that we need to avoid resentments... We feel that they are the biggest threat to our sobriety. Often our resentments are for things that happened that ARE wrong... a homeless guy steals 300 dollars from an AA clubhouse... during the holidays... all that. Pathetic, the whole eF-ing thing.
Just came to us to talk about it with the posture that he ain't gonna pray for the guy and he hopes he gets arrested and all that... obviously very resentful and angry.
Alcoholics drink over that sh1t, and less... and for a chronic advanced hopeless alcoholic, that could kill him.
Just can't unsteal the 300 dollars, he can't make the arrest, he can't fix this, and it isn't his fault...
But he can get rid of the thing that could take him back out, back to the bottle, and, well... could kill him. That resentment.
Or he could pray for that pathetic homeless ex-con who stole 300 dollars from a bunch of alkies and lose that resentment. Something we learn in the 12 steps and AA... and talk about here, on SR, in the 12 step section.
One of the most important lessons we learn in AA is that we need to avoid resentments... We feel that they are the biggest threat to our sobriety. Often our resentments are for things that happened that ARE wrong... a homeless guy steals 300 dollars from an AA clubhouse... during the holidays... all that. Pathetic, the whole eF-ing thing.
Just came to us to talk about it with the posture that he ain't gonna pray for the guy and he hopes he gets arrested and all that... obviously very resentful and angry.
Alcoholics drink over that sh1t, and less... and for a chronic advanced hopeless alcoholic, that could kill him.
Just can't unsteal the 300 dollars, he can't make the arrest, he can't fix this, and it isn't his fault...
But he can get rid of the thing that could take him back out, back to the bottle, and, well... could kill him. That resentment.
Or he could pray for that pathetic homeless ex-con who stole 300 dollars from a bunch of alkies and lose that resentment. Something we learn in the 12 steps and AA... and talk about here, on SR, in the 12 step section.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by MemphisBlues
It happens all the time. GSO's suggestion is to get over it, move on, and half the time the thief will stumble back into the rooms. Sure, report it to the police. But beat the guy? Really?
1000 Post Club
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
[QUOTE=sobersanity;3704964]Cant believe some of the stuff Im reading. Talk about judging the man. And Im not talking about the thief. The original poster is getting ridden rock solid and judged from nearly every poster.
Anyone would think the original poster stole the money, killed three puppys and blew up a church. Give the man a break and stop judging him.
Thank you. I did a few "shady" things in my past but I did draw a line. I didn't steal from fellow AA members or take advantage of the AA clubs.
Anyone would think the original poster stole the money, killed three puppys and blew up a church. Give the man a break and stop judging him.
Thank you. I did a few "shady" things in my past but I did draw a line. I didn't steal from fellow AA members or take advantage of the AA clubs.
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
I did a few "shady" things in my past but I did draw a line. I didn't steal from fellow AA members or take advantage of the AA clubs.
I can imagine that goes past the line of stealing from AA? The justice system will deal with me for that legal trespass. God will judge me on my actions since and how I can turn this into a positive thing.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 737
Unbelievable stuff I've read in here. Just41 you've been in the rooms of AA a while now, judging by your tenure here and having cruised through some threads you've been involved in.
This 'diabolical act' of snagging a jar full of cash... is it really so reprehensible? Sorry, I'm sitting here now a bit incredulous, wondering where your collective moral barometer lies with all that other tragic sh!t YOU'VE done, I've done, and most here have done. Because on a scale of 1 to 10 on the "Abominable Things Done In My Drinking Years" list, stealing a wad of cash from an AA donation jar doesn't even make the cut. I dare-say that's true of most of us. If you're expecting different from a group of folks who's entire nervous system has - at one time or another - literally revolved around getting loaded, it kinda boggles my mind how you can posture such critical judgement. In my humble opinion you're currently missing the plot, all but ignoring the core concepts of forgiveness, acceptance, humility, and just about everything else the 12 steps strives for and (not coincidentally) absolutely relevant to the season you and I are lucky enough to experience sober.
Cripes, I've stolen before, and lied through my teeth about it. Hell I've taken from my boy's college fund until there was nothing left. I've ripped off my own band whenever necessary, anytime I needed to get down with a bottle or 10 - or fix a problem that arrived from my being a screwed up lousy drunk. Of course I always paid it back, but isn't that the most familiar rationalization you've heard all day? What if I'd been caught before topping up those "jars"? Am I any better than the dude who ripped your AA group off? Nope. I was the same, because I was once a blitzed out drunk idiot too. He was me and I was him. And he was also you Just. Like it or not.
Funny, see, cuz when I got drunk enough I couldn't draw a line with a ruler. Moral codes and drawn lines, hmmm, these were always quite relative concepts for me, quite unintentionally breakable - once I had a few thousand too many. I'd have thought you could intimately understand that. Something we all learn (usually from experience) is that alcoholism is capable of manifesting all manner of tragic outcomes. Which step is it that grants us amnesia? We're cut from the same cloth as the drunk guy who runs over a family of 4, as well as the drunk lady who passed out and set fire to her home, killing her husband and newborn. Any tragic story, including your AA Group's Cat Burglar, is only 1 drunken blackout and perhaps a few degrees south of you or I brother. Please think about that before succumbing to this twisted case of misplaced moral indignation. Otherwise you might be gearing this holiday drama up as the next thing worth drinking over.
Give what you can or take what you need. Isn't that the original premise behind AA member donations in the first place? Even if not, let's crunch some details here: Your cat burglar is a dude who has done NOTHING worse than some of us posting in this thread, on any given day. So, let's happily throw him to a ridiculously flawed legal system because you and I didn't get any better treatment back in the day. Why should we give away compassion that we never got, right? Better yet, let's find him and cave in his skull THEN turn him over to the Jack Boot Squad and legal-aid ineptitude. That's the lesson he needs. Then we can all go to a meeting and pat each others backs, thankful we've rid ourselves of such a contrary individual. I guess the folks in your AA group looking to "teach him a lesson" don't own mirrors. Come on now, Just. This line of thought is NOT the result of AA values. It's nowhere near the town that built the ballpark that houses AA values.
Really, if I am offending with this post it's only because I just can't believe the judgmental nature and lack of compassion afforded to someone who is obviously stricken with an identical problem to one you and I face every day. Think about it. If this isn't a case of "let he who cast the first stone..." I don't know what is.
AA is not the Sacred Temple of Incorruptible Rainbows. And that jar of donations wasn't being held in the hands of the baby Jesus to eventually feed starving orphans. That jar was in a room full of drunks doing little more than trying to collectively heal. Sometimes healing doesn't happen according to seasonal/topical AA formatting and our own idiosyncratic moral codes. Therein is where acceptance and understanding become critical to helping others, and to our own continued recovery. The bloke who stole that jar hurt no one but himself in the grand scheme, and that is the real tragedy here. Hell, maybe he's already dead, having used that 300.00 to proper top up his heroine habit. IMO that guy needs a healthy dose of prayer, and if he ever shows up at your group again he needs a handshake, forgiveness, and a chair closer to the front.
This 'diabolical act' of snagging a jar full of cash... is it really so reprehensible? Sorry, I'm sitting here now a bit incredulous, wondering where your collective moral barometer lies with all that other tragic sh!t YOU'VE done, I've done, and most here have done. Because on a scale of 1 to 10 on the "Abominable Things Done In My Drinking Years" list, stealing a wad of cash from an AA donation jar doesn't even make the cut. I dare-say that's true of most of us. If you're expecting different from a group of folks who's entire nervous system has - at one time or another - literally revolved around getting loaded, it kinda boggles my mind how you can posture such critical judgement. In my humble opinion you're currently missing the plot, all but ignoring the core concepts of forgiveness, acceptance, humility, and just about everything else the 12 steps strives for and (not coincidentally) absolutely relevant to the season you and I are lucky enough to experience sober.
Cripes, I've stolen before, and lied through my teeth about it. Hell I've taken from my boy's college fund until there was nothing left. I've ripped off my own band whenever necessary, anytime I needed to get down with a bottle or 10 - or fix a problem that arrived from my being a screwed up lousy drunk. Of course I always paid it back, but isn't that the most familiar rationalization you've heard all day? What if I'd been caught before topping up those "jars"? Am I any better than the dude who ripped your AA group off? Nope. I was the same, because I was once a blitzed out drunk idiot too. He was me and I was him. And he was also you Just. Like it or not.
I did a few "shady" things in my past but I did draw a line. I didn't steal from fellow AA members or take advantage of the AA clubs.
Give what you can or take what you need. Isn't that the original premise behind AA member donations in the first place? Even if not, let's crunch some details here: Your cat burglar is a dude who has done NOTHING worse than some of us posting in this thread, on any given day. So, let's happily throw him to a ridiculously flawed legal system because you and I didn't get any better treatment back in the day. Why should we give away compassion that we never got, right? Better yet, let's find him and cave in his skull THEN turn him over to the Jack Boot Squad and legal-aid ineptitude. That's the lesson he needs. Then we can all go to a meeting and pat each others backs, thankful we've rid ourselves of such a contrary individual. I guess the folks in your AA group looking to "teach him a lesson" don't own mirrors. Come on now, Just. This line of thought is NOT the result of AA values. It's nowhere near the town that built the ballpark that houses AA values.
Really, if I am offending with this post it's only because I just can't believe the judgmental nature and lack of compassion afforded to someone who is obviously stricken with an identical problem to one you and I face every day. Think about it. If this isn't a case of "let he who cast the first stone..." I don't know what is.
AA is not the Sacred Temple of Incorruptible Rainbows. And that jar of donations wasn't being held in the hands of the baby Jesus to eventually feed starving orphans. That jar was in a room full of drunks doing little more than trying to collectively heal. Sometimes healing doesn't happen according to seasonal/topical AA formatting and our own idiosyncratic moral codes. Therein is where acceptance and understanding become critical to helping others, and to our own continued recovery. The bloke who stole that jar hurt no one but himself in the grand scheme, and that is the real tragedy here. Hell, maybe he's already dead, having used that 300.00 to proper top up his heroine habit. IMO that guy needs a healthy dose of prayer, and if he ever shows up at your group again he needs a handshake, forgiveness, and a chair closer to the front.
1000 Post Club
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
There are lines that I never crossed and would never cross. One is stealing from family & the other is stealing from AA. This persons drug of choice is alcohol & heroin. Why couldn't he steal or rob from the drug dealers? Instead he picked an easy target. His family is done with him because of stealing from them. So he went to the next easy target, folks in AA. I mean the money was for kids for Christmas!
Trudger of Happy Destiny
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,918
Originally Posted by Justfor1
There are lines that I never crossed and would never cross. One is stealing from family & the other is stealing from AA. This persons drug of choice is alcohol & heroin. Why couldn't he steal or rob from the drug dealers? Instead he picked an easy target. His family is done with him because of stealing from them. So he went to the next easy target, folks in AA. I mean the money was for kids for Christmas!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Severance Colorado
Posts: 150
I think Peter did a great job of putting things in perspective. I'd like to expand on the perspective of "at the club".
Occasionally my wife and kids leave me home alone for the weekend for whatever reason. I take this opportunity to go meeting hopping and see what's going on in other groups. So I end up in a "Club" for some reason. It's usually against my better judgement but the coffees free.
So the part comes "Are there any newcomers". One girl about 30ish seemed timid and scared but spoke up. Everyone says "Hi" and it instantly becomes a first step meeting. But that's another story.
When a newcomer comes to AA for the first time I believe the group has a responsibility for that person. The group should be a place full of people they can trust, full of people that have been in their shoes, full of people that are not intimidating or imposing full of people that have been relieved of their excessive concentration of their own selfish wants and puts their focus on others.
Then some reptile slides down a couple chairs and says under his breath,, "I think you ought to go have dinner with me so we can see what we do to fix you".
You ever want to witness Ol Leadfoot have a serenity meltdown watch and see what happens when I hear of this or witness this. What's worse is that nobody does anything about it.
A jar full of change can be replaced and an amend can be made. Or you can start out with an empty jar and try again. When someone violates the sanctity of an institution many of us owe our very existence to I consider it to be unforgivable. How can someone trust me when I'm represented by actions like this? Where are they going to go for help when their view is that AA is full of bottom feeding leeches?
Occasionally my wife and kids leave me home alone for the weekend for whatever reason. I take this opportunity to go meeting hopping and see what's going on in other groups. So I end up in a "Club" for some reason. It's usually against my better judgement but the coffees free.
So the part comes "Are there any newcomers". One girl about 30ish seemed timid and scared but spoke up. Everyone says "Hi" and it instantly becomes a first step meeting. But that's another story.
When a newcomer comes to AA for the first time I believe the group has a responsibility for that person. The group should be a place full of people they can trust, full of people that have been in their shoes, full of people that are not intimidating or imposing full of people that have been relieved of their excessive concentration of their own selfish wants and puts their focus on others.
Then some reptile slides down a couple chairs and says under his breath,, "I think you ought to go have dinner with me so we can see what we do to fix you".
You ever want to witness Ol Leadfoot have a serenity meltdown watch and see what happens when I hear of this or witness this. What's worse is that nobody does anything about it.
A jar full of change can be replaced and an amend can be made. Or you can start out with an empty jar and try again. When someone violates the sanctity of an institution many of us owe our very existence to I consider it to be unforgivable. How can someone trust me when I'm represented by actions like this? Where are they going to go for help when their view is that AA is full of bottom feeding leeches?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 367
Originally Posted by Justfor1
There are lines that I never crossed and would never cross. One is stealing from family & the other is stealing from AA. This persons drug of choice is alcohol & heroin. Why couldn't he steal or rob from the drug dealers? Instead he picked an easy target. His family is done with him because of stealing from them. So he went to the next easy target, folks in AA. I mean the money was for kids for Christmas!
This sort of thing is probably why AA has traditions, like primary purpose and non affiliation. If your AA group is taking donations for ANYTHING beyond paying expenses and keeping the door open you're way off on the traditions.
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