Group practices that seem strange

[lilac0721]

Hi, everyone. I live in a very very small town with 2 AA groups: 1 meets at 8pm T, Th and Sat. One meets M-F at noon and also has 10 am meetings on Sat and Sun and 7pm meetings on M, Th and Fri.

I love the noon meetings but because of where I work am unable to attend them. 7pm is a good meeting, but often I am the only woman there. I haven't been able to get to the 10am weekend meetings due to going to church or saturday morning craziness. I am actually considering the meeting this morning instead of church. So I've been going to the 8pm 3 nights a week group. I have been in and out of the rooms in a few different towns for the past four years. This time, I really want to stay sober. REALLY want to, so meetings are important. I want to learn from other alcoholics. There are a couple of women that I really like at this group.

But there are some practices this group has that make me a little uncomfortable. First, at every meeting they ask that anyone who is not a member of that group to introduce themselves. There are maximum only 15 people at that meeting at any given time. Usually, it's only about 8-9 people. I am not a "member" of that group. You have to sign up to be considered a member and have a minimum amount of sobriety and you either must go to ALL 3 of their meetings a week or none at all. You're either "in" or "out." It seems weird. I thought the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking? So this feels really exclusive and like i don't really belong.

Second, well, I already mentioned, you have to go to all three meetings every week or they don't consider you part of that group, just a visitor.

Third, and I learned this last night at their monthly birthday meeting, they don't hand out chips to people with 30, 60, 90 or 180 days of sobriety. Every other group I've visited/participated in has celebrated these milestones. I was told they "don't want it to go to your head." Only celebrate years.

Finally, women aren't supposed to sit next to men. While I gravitate toward women anyway, because they are the ones who I need to learn the most from, this seems a little puritanical.

I like that group and the people in it and I hear great ESH when I'm there. But these practices are things I've never encountered in any group in my 4 years going in and out of the rooms in several different towns.

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts and wisdom to share on these practices.

[KnowHope]

Although I could be mistaken, it sounds to me like they are falling within the guidelines of the 4th tradition:

Tradition 4 (Short form) — Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

Tradition 4 (Long form) — With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.

Ultimately, however, it's up to you if you want to participate with that group, on terms with its group conscience. If you become a member of the group, you can become part of that group conscience.The desire to stop drinking applies to membership of AA as a whole, which is something that no one can revoke from you.

If you have concerns, don't be afraid to ask the old timers in the group (or those women you said you really like). Why not ask them to meet with you for coffee to chat? It may be that this group is very strong, or it could be running on something not so healthy. I'm not there, so I really don't know. However, I hear you, and I can understand your sentiments. Just considering some of what you wrote, "Won't let it get to your head" is odd enough to me that I might give it the benefit of the doubt as a misunderstanding.

So much encouragement to you on your journey! Keep seeking, keep doing, keep asking questions and the gifts will continue to reveal themselves.





Big Book quotes from the 1st edition

[IndaMiricale]

I live in Cleveland where there are over 1,200 meetings a week. I attend 7 days a week almost always..

And those things you have stated seem to be a bit wierd and extreme to me. Thats the choice of the group.

Like it was said its all that falls upon the Group Conscience. So if you want to change anything bring it up. Do what you have to become a home group member.. And go from there.

Other than that just go with the flow, and just focus on you and your sobriety..

[RobbyRobot]

Originally Posted by lilac0721

Second, well, I already mentioned, you have to go to all three meetings every week or they don't consider you part of that group, just a visitor.

Third, and I learned this last night at their monthly birthday meeting, they don't hand out chips to people with 30, 60, 90 or 180 days of sobriety. Every other group I've visited/participated in has celebrated these milestones. I was told they "don't want it to go to your head." Only celebrate years.

Finally, women aren't supposed to sit next to men. While I gravitate toward women anyway, because they are the ones who I need to learn the most from, this seems a little puritanical.

I like that group and the people in it and I hear great ESH when I'm there.

Okay, so each group has a right to govern themselves, as they see fit, within the limits of the Traditions.

With that said, this particular group seems to like having a measure of influence and control of who is who within their group. They like having behavioral controls, and for me that would be a deal-breaker. They tell me who I can or can't sit beside at a meeting??!

hahaha

Not me they don't.

No matter, I would just not attend, even if they offer really great ES&H. I can still receive what they offer and without their limiting controls from other groups would be my decision.

I realize you talked about the town being small. You also say they offer great ES&H. So thats good. I guess you could start up your own meeting with some others in agreement, and make your own distinctions. You could also become a member and offer that changes be made. I've done as much in my day, and it can have great results too. In any case, don't feel defeated by whatever a group does or dosen't do. It seems they are just being uncommonly different...

[2granddaughters]

Originally Posted by lilac0721

Hi, everyone. I live in a very very small town with 2 AA groups: 1 meets at 8pm T, Th and Sat. One meets M-F at noon and also has 10 am meetings on Sat and Sun and 7pm meetings on M, Th and Fri.

I love the noon meetings but because of where I work am unable to attend them. 7pm is a good meeting, but often I am the only woman there. I haven't been able to get to the 10am weekend meetings due to going to church or saturday morning craziness. I am actually considering the meeting this morning instead of church. So I've been going to the 8pm 3 nights a week group. I have been in and out of the rooms in a few different towns for the past four years. This time, I really want to stay sober. REALLY want to, so meetings are important. I want to learn from other alcoholics. There are a couple of women that I really like at this group.

But there are some practices this group has that make me a little uncomfortable. First, at every meeting they ask that anyone who is not a member of that group to introduce themselves. There are maximum only 15 people at that meeting at any given time. Usually, it's only about 8-9 people. I am not a "member" of that group. You have to sign up to be considered a member and have a minimum amount of sobriety and you either must go to ALL 3 of their meetings a week or none at all. You're either "in" or "out." It seems weird. I thought the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking? So this feels really exclusive and like i don't really belong.

Second, well, I already mentioned, you have to go to all three meetings every week or they don't consider you part of that group, just a visitor.

Third, and I learned this last night at their monthly birthday meeting, they don't hand out chips to people with 30, 60, 90 or 180 days of sobriety. Every other group I've visited/participated in has celebrated these milestones. I was told they "don't want it to go to your head." Only celebrate years.

Finally, women aren't supposed to sit next to men. While I gravitate toward women anyway, because they are the ones who I need to learn the most from, this seems a little puritanical.

I like that group and the people in it and I hear great ESH when I'm there. But these practices are things I've never encountered in any group in my 4 years going in and out of the rooms in several different towns.

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts and wisdom to share on these practices.

What does your sponsor think about this issue? What did she recommend?

One of the groups that I attend regularly asks if there is anyone from out of town who would like to introduce themselves, the request is strictly voluntary.

If the meeting suits your schedule and you find it helpful then attend it. I see no need to join nor introduce yourself at every meeting.

All the best.

Bob R

[lilac0721]

Originally Posted by RobbyRobot

With that said, this particular group seems to like having a measure of influence and control of who is who within their group. They like having behavioral controls, and for me that would be a deal-breaker. They tell me who I can or can't sit beside at a meeting??!

hahaha

Not me they don't.

No matter, I would just not attend, even if they offer really great ES&H. I can still receive what they offer and without their limiting controls from other groups would be my decision.

Yeah, the behavioral controls. Having been in more than one abusive relationship, that is the element that feels uncomfortable to me. I was told that I was being rebellious. I really appreciate other members here on SR giving me input. I thought maybe I was just nuts.

I went to the other group's meeting this morning. I asked the women there about those practices. They said there are some groups that do things a little differently, but that they personally find those practices unhelpful and choose not to attend that group. And of the women I spoke to today 2 had 20 years of sobriety. So it's not like this town is totally devoid of good ESH. I also got the phone numbers of the other four women who were at that meeting today. All have at least 4 years of sobriety.

I will go back to that group (the one without the weird rules) tomorrow night. I am often the only woman there on Monday nights (most of the women go at noon), but the men in that group are great. No 13th stepping. I also made an agreement with another guy about my age who is back after going out and is on his 4th day. I'm on day 9. We agreed that we'd both show up for the 7pm tomorrow night. Accountability is good. Support and ES&H are good. Behavioral controls, not so good.

I'm really glad SR is here! I've learned so much from everyone on this forum!

[heath480]

In my experience of AA,members vote with their feet to attend or not attend meetings,my feet would quickly vote me out of that sort ot situation.

I do hope lilac that you find a meeting you feel comfortable with.

[lilac0721]

Thank you Heath! I am very prone to second-guessing myself, so when I find myself in a situation that makes my "gut" uncomfortable, I tend to think that maybe I am wrong.

One of the women in the group I went to today (the one that I've visited more since living in this rural town) said that if I want to go to the exclusive group, then I should just state that I will go when I am able to get to those meetings and be firm in my resolve that I don't need to be a member if I want to go. Meetings are for me to hear people's ES&H to strengthen my own sobriety. Before I took my current job, I would attend the noon group during previous sobriety attempts. It was a great group. The people on Saturday, Sunday at 10am and Monday and Friday at 7pm are made of the same folks. They really do mean it when they say keep coming back and I've gone back after going out many times in the past 2 years and they make me feel right at home and never judge me never make me feel bad. They're just always darn glad to see me. I like that!

[Db1105]

Originally Posted by lilac0721

Hi, everyone. I live in a very very small town with 2 AA groups: 1 meets at 8pm T, Th and Sat. One meets M-F at noon and also has 10 am meetings on Sat and Sun and 7pm meetings on M, Th and Fri.

I love the noon meetings but because of where I work am unable to attend them. 7pm is a good meeting, but often I am the only woman there. I haven't been able to get to the 10am weekend meetings due to going to church or saturday morning craziness. I am actually considering the meeting this morning instead of church. So I've been going to the 8pm 3 nights a week group. I have been in and out of the rooms in a few different towns for the past four years. This time, I really want to stay sober. REALLY want to, so meetings are important. I want to learn from other alcoholics. There are a couple of women that I really like at this group.

But there are some practices this group has that make me a little uncomfortable. First, at every meeting they ask that anyone who is not a member of that group to introduce themselves. There are maximum only 15 people at that meeting at any given time. Usually, it's only about 8-9 people. I am not a "member" of that group. You have to sign up to be considered a member and have a minimum amount of sobriety and you either must go to ALL 3 of their meetings a week or none at all. You're either "in" or "out." It seems weird. I thought the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking? So this feels really exclusive and like i don't really belong.

Second, well, I already mentioned, you have to go to all three meetings every week or they don't consider you part of that group, just a visitor.

Third, and I learned this last night at their monthly birthday meeting, they don't hand out chips to people with 30, 60, 90 or 180 days of sobriety. Every other group I've visited/participated in has celebrated these milestones. I was told they "don't want it to go to your head." Only celebrate years.

Finally, women aren't supposed to sit next to men. While I gravitate toward women anyway, because they are the ones who I need to learn the most from, this seems a little puritanical.

I like that group and the people in it and I hear great ESH when I'm there. But these practices are things I've never encountered in any group in my 4 years going in and out of the rooms in several different towns.

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts and wisdom to share on these practices.

I'm grateful I didn't go to a group like that for my first meeting. My sorry butt would of been out the door.

[Earthworm]

Why don,t you just take what you need and leave the rest if you feel comfortable in going thatis.

Some groups don,t give out chips for 30 60 90 days etc, a decision of the group conscience. They probably with not wanting women to sit beside men are thinking that they are avoiding problems (13th stepping) that way. also a deision of the group conscience probably.

It,s your comfort level.

[Caledonia1]

Originally Posted by Db1105

I'm grateful I didn't go to a group like that for my first meeting. My sorry butt would of been out the door.

Got to agree with you there. Never experienced anything like that heng sre. Where I live there are many meetings to choose from and each have something different to offer but this does seem a rather dated attitude this group have..........

[muvinon]

It's fine. They get to handle that stuff how they wish. Now me? I'd HAVE to go until I found out the story behind those rules.

Enticing story in there somewhere.........or not.

[Tommyh]

the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking?

for AA membership that is right
group membership may differ as is the case in that one group

[lilac0721]

I really appreciate everyone's responses! I feel relieved that I am not the only one who finds these practices strange. I plan to call one of the women from the group today and I will ask her about these things.

It was helpful discussing those practices with the other group in town yesterday. They all had been put off (and they all have at least 4 years of sobriety, some 20 years or more) by those same practices. Not one of them ever goes to the 8pm group because of feeling like outsiders and unwelcome. Not to mention that they are made to feel bad about only going once in a while. In fact, when I went to that group last Saturday, they all made snide remarks about how I hardly ever visit. Too bad, because there are some great people and good sobriety and wisdom. That whole behavior control thing and exclusivity reminds me too much of abusive parents and ex-boyfriends.

[sugarbear1]

Maybe it's time for them to take a Group Inventory. We often can't see the impact of our own behavior, which is why that 4th step exists (even for a group). Contact AA Worldwide or NY to find out how to hold a Group Inventory!

[Mark75]

We are gonna find all sorts of different groups. There are some really hardliner kind of groups around that get in each other's face... me, I like God in control.

[PaperDolls]

Originally Posted by Tommyh

the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking?

for AA membership that is right
group membership may differ as is the case in that one group

Then it's not AA? May be.




The group membership is strange to me. I agree it doesn't feel very inclusive.

Focus on you and what you need to do to stay sober.

[tomsteve]

as paperdolls pointed out, all inclusive,never exclusive.
if ya like th emeeting, dont get diiscouraged. i believe it is rule 63 that says there are no rules. we are trusted servants, we dont govern.

[Veritas1]

Awhile ago, I went to a group that I had heard about.

They had a notebook and wanted me to sign my name and put my telephone number and sobriety date.

They kept track of every meeting, who attends, and everyone signs this notebook.

I signed it.

I posted about it on SR years back.

I can recall it being said that although this certainly was a meeting...it wasn't a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

One night I went to an AA meeting and they were talking about how they were only going to let people with one year or more talk.

They said the reason would be that they would assume that people with one year or more had most likely worked the steps and had a spiritual awakening.

I was so mad sitting there listening to this.

I was going to say, "well then it wouldn't be AA, it would be the one year or more club", but I said nothing.

I guess anyone can say anything in a meeting and this group can draft rules and you get to decide if you can deal with them.

Hopefully you will find a good home group if that is what you are looking for. I use SR as my home group, and I have an AA sponsor whom I call, and I listen to AA speakers. I also follow pages 86-88 daily. It has been working.

[lilac0721]

Originally Posted by Veritas1

Hopefully you will find a good home group if that is what you are looking for. I use SR as my home group, and I have an AA sponsor whom I call, and I listen to AA speakers. I also follow pages 86-88 daily. It has been working.

Thank you for the insight into your past experiences, Veritas! I have been reading pp86-88 every morning, saying a prayer and then reading out of Daily Reflections or a Hazelden meditation/reflection book. Same thing before going to bed.
I have been talking to one of the women from the "exclusive" group almost daily, but think that I am uncomfortable with the requirements beyond a desire to stop drinking. Also 8pm is pretty late for me. There are some good women at the other group. I'll talk to them and select one of them to work the steps with me.

I'm so glad SR is here! I'm sitting at work, fretting about which meetings to attend this week and get to check in here for support. Phew!