The Choice to drink

[Veritas1]

Hello everyone.

It was suggested to me that if I drink again it will be because I choose to drink again.

In my mind, this goes against what the big book tells me.

It tells me I lost the power to choose.

I started a thread about the realization that I had that in a moment of anger, an immediate thought to go get drunk came up for me.

I am really trying to understand just when the choice option comes up for us.

So, when the thought comes to drink, for whatever reason, we are to choose to not drink, and be good, be moral, be responsible...I just need better morals?

[bbthumper]

I have lost the power of choice in drink, as the book suggests. Left on my own, without a higher power, I drink. No matter what. Not because I choose to, but because I am powerless without God. Choice implies power. I don't choose to drink or not to drink. I choose to live the way of life the book lays out for me. That way the choice to drink or not drink is of no concern to me. Its in God's hands.

[Veritas1]

I just finished my morning outline from the big book.

I wonder if what was implied about if I drink again it is because I choose to drink... is that the choice comes from the reprieve given when I do my part?

Mental obsession to drink is present but because of actions I take, I choose?

I wonder if that is what was meant.

At the point that I didn't drink, was that my choice? I think it was my choice.

Or, if as the result of actions I took, thought of child, called AA women, drove home, posted on sr, made coffee, prayer...if that gave me the choice not to drink.

The program and God gives me effective thought so I can choose?

When, if in the work, doing AA program from the book daily, if I have a thought to drink, and I drink, is that my choice, or am I driven to drink still from somewhere deep under the surface inside of me?

Ok, I am going to listen now.

I have talked enough.

Please, I am not trying to start any debate on choice. I am really trying to understand this. Thanks everyone.

[Db1105]

My recovery from alcoholism is contingent on maintaining my spirituality and relationship with my Higher Power. That is my choice. If I don't continue to follow my Higher Power's will, I will drink.

[Boleo]

In order for me to "choose" to stay sober I would have to think about drinking and not-drinking and make a decision about doing one or the other. Something that has not entered my mind in years.

Even back when I was stuck in a relapse cycle that happened every 2 - 6 weeks like clockwork, I don't remember even once "choosing" to drink over not-drinking. I simply felt like sobriety was a cross to bare and I needed to put it down once in a while to take a rest from the burden of sobriety.

However, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps:

"We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."
(page 85)

[Veritas1]

Thank you

[chuwantmybuffet]

It sounds like your questioning if your really an alcoholic or not. There's a line in the big book that says "try some controlled drinking", if you start drinking and can't stop then your an alcoholic. Now if I go out drinking, i can't just have one...I never could. I always had to get blasted. Before I knew it I was AM to PM drunk...again if i had time clean and started up. And I've had a few drinks at a point in time and guaranteed within a few hours i was doing heroin again. Choose not to drink, your better than that. Conclusion, you choose to die if you make that choice, remember that..because this addiction wants you dead.

[Veritas1]

^^^ I have no question as to if I am an alcoholic or not. My experience tells me that I am.

[2granddaughters]

Originally Posted by Veritas1

Hello everyone.

It was suggested to me that if I drink again it will be because I choose to drink again.

In my mind, this goes against what the big book tells me.

It tells me I lost the power to choose.

I started a thread about the realization that I had that in a moment of anger, an immediate thought to go get drunk came up for me.

I am really trying to understand just when the choice option comes up for us.

So, when the thought comes to drink, for whatever reason, we are to choose to not drink, and be good, be moral, be responsible...I just need better morals?

I need a spiritual awakening. I need God (as we understood him).

As AA's "How It works" states:

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

If I drink again it will be because I didn't attend to my "daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition". I lost my focus on recovery and something else became more important.

Tell your sponsor what was "suggested to you". See what she says.

All the best V

Bob R

[shaun00]

Leaving aside the drink question for the moment..

What drives the obsession to drink....in fact and purely my own experience, what drives all my obsessions ?...because ive had a few other than drinking and equally as devastating .

A seemingly endless series of benders, with brief periods of sobriety mainly closely shadowed by gambling, sex and money.

For me, once i saw the underlying problem and made a good attempt at seeking some solutions..the need to drink disappeared.

A spiritual malady......the real wound under the scab of drinking and all the other obsessions of the mind that arose for me..

Once i had just the willingness to believe in a power greater than me and took further action....and continued action....the problem ceases to exist.

There is no choice...it doesn't enter my mind, angry or sad, happy or joyous..
Its gone.

If im gripped by an obsession.....i will drink, there is no choice....its written in stone.....its the solution, i cant cope so ill change my perception of reality, then ive fed an allergic reaction which will keep me at it...till i drop .

The solution for me, was a spiritual awakening...people have them without the steps, just so happens we alcoholics need simple precise instruction ...12 steps..

[muvinon]

One of the most interesting meetings I've ever attended was mostly a group of long-timers in AA, and the topic was precisely this: What happened when you hit that moment where you were defenseless against that first drink.

One by one, they shared their "moments." In every instance, they were literally saved by both their knowledge and intervention by a power greater than themselves. They immediately found themselves inexplicably in the company of another AA member or someone who needed help was there to do the 12th step.

For example, one person asked at a wedding to be of service, was invited to help in the kitchen, and ended up helping a young woman who blurted out that she was in terrible trouble with alcohol. The thought of drinking evaporated as this longtimer chopped carrots and shared, escorting the young woman right into AA.


Amazing stories...and illustrative of just why focusing daily on growing along spiritual lines is not merely a "good idea," but may one day save our lives.

[Mark75]

I experience this question from a point of view that I have free will. I have the power to make choices, good or bad. Now, I can choose not to drink, or I can choose to drink... or I can choose not to choose... All manifestations of my free will.

In my third step I surrendered my will to the care of God and the 11th I am trying to align mine with God's will. I don't get to choose to drink, or not and I don't have to, if have maintained my spiritual condition, i.e. my relationship with God.

It's all free will... I am exercising mine by relinquishing it. This is certainly the struggle of all those who are seeking God, alcoholic or not.... free will vs. God's will... but for me, I do this one thing, I don't drink, and I don't have the choice, anymore. If I decide to choose, then I might choose wrong.

It takes the onus off me, I don't have to worry about my free will when it comes to alcohol and pills... No matter the trigger or the circumstance... among the array of choices I have to deal with whatever life brings... drinking is no longer one of them... as I grow in spirituality and sobriety I know this is true... it's not even a choice, to drink. And as I look back on the last few years before recovery, it never was.

God's will or my own. God's is perfect, mine, well, not so much.

[Veritas1]

Thank you.

[NoelleR]

"...It was suggested to me that if I drink again it will be because I choose to drink again.
In my mind, this goes against what the big book tells me.
It tells me I lost the power to choose..."

Let's go back and remember where this is located in the BB.........I believe you're referring to pg 24.............:

"...The fact is that most alcoholics, for some reason yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink..."

This is referring to when we were in our disease/addiction; when we were still drinking/using. In recovery, we regained that choice..........and today I choose to NOT drink/use.

(o:
NoelleR

[dox]

Choice?

I could choose a number of ways to make my life worse . . . including picking up a drink.

Only my AA programme (including: going to meetings, reading the Big Book, working the 12 steps honestly with a sponsor, and cultivating a relationship with a Higher Power) keeps me from making the wrong choice.

I have learnt (amongst other things) that there is nothing -- no situation -- that taking a drink will make better.

No matter what i might think,
no thing will force me to drink.

Today, I choose not to.

Tomorrow, whether I actively think about it or not, I will have the same choice to make.

~dox

[DayTrader]

Originally Posted by Boleo

I don't remember even once "choosing" to drink over not-drinking. I simply felt like sobriety was a cross to bare and I needed to put it down once in a while to take a rest from the burden of sobriety.

I'm sooooooooooo stealing that one!

Whats the rule? Give credit 3x then I can claim it as my own? lol.....

[augustwest]

it was always a choice it just seemed like it wasn't. i was delusional and in the grips of alcoholism.

today i'm not delusional or in the grips of alcoholism. I have done the steps. I have gained insight into how my mind operates. i know my patterns and triggers. i have tools to cope with life. if i choose to drink today there is no excuse. i am willfully choosing to ignore three years of experience and pick up a drink as the solution to whatever ails me.

[Veritas1]

If I choose to drink again implies some sort of condemnation in my mind.

I didn't want it bad enough.

If I drink again it is because I wanted to and chose to.

This idea implies that I couldn't live up to what others do. Like my personal failure.

I just don't know if it is alcoholism driving me to drink, or it is just about me and my good choices.

Being good.

Anyway. Thank you everyone.

I think I will walk away from this issue in my life, mind, body and spirit today, and keep it movin.

Love and Light

Have a beautiful day.

Tomorrow is the day that my brother died. I got the call to go and identify his body after he died on his motorcycle. He was drunk and hit another vehicle while speeding on a turn, and flew through the air and hit a tree, breaking his back, and tearing his heart in two. I went to the hospital and there he was like he was an angel asleep in the bed. I didn't know what to do so I said the Lord's Prayer, and the Hail Mary, a prayer my Catholic grandmother taught me. Thank God I got to be with him and pray for him.

He died instantly. He was 26 and beautiful. He was an alcoholic, and tried to get sober with AA, with rehabs for years. Poor thing even had to do time in the local county jail, one year... over repeated dwi's and he just could not stop drinking.

I am going to get quiet and get with God so that I am in a safe haven while I feel this loss again, as I always do whenever October 4 comes around.

Be well

[Mark75]

I will remember you in my prayers tomorrow... Let this insanity stop here, you know?

Choosing to drink doesn't equal not wanting it bad enough... and this is why the program is so beautiful... My wanting it bad enough, or not, is not in play when I have chosen not to chose, to turn that all over to my higher power. And walking away from this issue is precisely what you will do in your third step...

Yea... get moving...

[Music]

If you drink again it'll be because you want to drink and choose to drink, not because your husband upset you.

Well Veritas, I read back over my post and the above quote is what I wrote. I didn't suggest anything. I made a flat statement. I chose to take my first drink. Even though I had a really bad experience right from the start, I chose to drink again, and again. Eventually my chooser got broke and it was just time to drink. When I drank I chose to not pay bills, I chose to argue with my wife to get out of the house, I chose to lie to my wife and take money from my kids Christmas gifts to buy another drink. On March 1st 1977 I chose to go to my first AA meeting. I got a sponsor right away and Jerry told me that now that I'm in AA, I have a choice as to whether or not to drink again. God gave us free will and the whole premise behind the steps is an attempt to (like Mark said) align my will the God's will for me. We can argue over whether the choice is to drink, or to stay sober, but the bottom line is I do have a choice. When I drank, I made choices that would enable me to continue to drink. Now that I'm in AA I learn the choices to make in order to (in the beginning) just not drink, but further on in time, to stay sober. There's no condemnation involved here with what I'm saying to you. Hell, the last thing on my list of intentions here is to condemn you for drinking. That's what alcoholics do....they drink. All I'm saying is that I had to make a commitment to stay sober, regardless of what my wife did, what my kids did, or what anyone else does. I can't help what life throws at me but I can help how I react to it.

I wish you every good prayer in your adventure with sobriety and I hope you don't drink long enough to relize that sobriety is the best choice. AA gives us the tools to stay sober i.e., going to meetings, getting a sponsor and working the steps. But the best choice is to not drink...just for today. Get to a meeting. Call your sponsor or someone else in the program and work the steps like your life depends on it.