Jim B., the Atheist, Talks about Steps 4 & 5 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

sugarbear1 · 08-06-2012, 08:06 AM

steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv - YouTube

take a listen!

augustwest · 08-06-2012, 08:10 AM

I can't watch it until i get off work but i'd also be interested in his thoughts on 2,3,6,7, and 11.

sugarbear1 · 08-06-2012, 01:11 PM

The end was a bit cut off, at least on my pc.....

there are more from others on utube.

Zencat · 08-07-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbear1

steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv - YouTube

take a listen!

↑ The download I have is different from the link posted Sugarbear? I have Jim B discussing AA history. Interesting talk from someone who was there in the beginnings of AA.

sugarbear1 · 08-07-2012, 03:05 PM

I get a You Tube link for the talk. Not sure what you are getting. Maybe just search on You Tube for:" steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv " on there.

I'd love to listen to your link, Zencat, if my laptop will download it!!

bbthumper · 08-08-2012, 06:15 AM

Not an atheist myself, but here is a lead from a guy who I have a lot of respect for who lives in my neck of the woods. He was an atheist when he came it and still is today. One of the most active AAs out there and has a great story.

XA-Speakers - The lights are on!

Charon · 08-08-2012, 06:28 AM

I listened to the first few minutes. Got a question. What is an atheist doing talking about god, asking god, etc? Doesn't sound like any atheist I've ever heard of.

sugarbear1 · 08-08-2012, 06:43 AM

I believe that once one works through the steps, then maybe they have decided there is some kind of power greater than them as the obsession has been removed....not sure.... I know my sponsor who was an athiest is now a believer, but has their own conception of a power greater than them, but for conformity, uses the word god in AA meetings... it's less controversial. Not really sure. I've always been a believer, but I was never a religious person. Today, after experiencing a spiritual awakening, I DO believe in that power, I choose to use the word god, but I don't explain my conception to others.

You'd have to ask one of these athiests directly.....

augustwest · 08-08-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbear1

You'd have to ask one of these athiests directly.....

Pretty much. But since we talk about "God" as we understand "him" why wouldn't an atheist mention it? Yes God is typically referring to the single deity in monotheism but "as we understand him" negates that definition if one so chooses.

I don't believe in a supernatural creator or supreme being that has an opinion about anything but use the term god to talk about my higher power in a 12 step context. It's just easier, though i do say higher power just as often.

There was a period where i refused to say god because my higher power has absolutely nothing to do with the traditional connotation of the word. but i want to be inclusive and understand my fellow people and ultimately it just doesn't freaking matter what i call it.

Zencat · 08-08-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbear1

I get a You Tube link for the talk. Not sure what you are getting. Maybe just search on You Tube for:" steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv " on there.

I'd love to listen to your link, Zencat, if my laptop will download it!!

The tape is a good listen to a first hand account about the beginnings of AA. The other youtube links to Jim B. is not Jimmy B, forth original AA member who argued to include "as you understand Him" into the 12-steps, Jimmy was an atheist that went to his grave with 3 decades of sobriety in AA. He wrote:

”For the new agnostic or atheist just coming in, I will try to give very briefly my milestones in recovery.
1. The first power I found greater than myself was John Barleycorn.
2. The A.A. Fellowship became my Higher Power for the first two years.
3. Gradually, I came to believe that God and Good were synonymous and were found in all of us.
4. And I found that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers, I became more comfortable and steady.”
- J.B., San Diego, California.

bbthumper · 08-08-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zencat

The tape is a good listen to a first hand account about the beginnings of AA. The other youtube links to Jim B. is not Jimmy B, forth original AA member who argued to include "as you understand Him" into the 12-steps, Jimmy was an atheist that went to his grave with 3 decades of sobriety in AA. He wrote:

”For the new agnostic or atheist just coming in, I will try to give very briefly my milestones in recovery.
1. The first power I found greater than myself was John Barleycorn.
2. The A.A. Fellowship became my Higher Power for the first two years.
3. Gradually, I came to believe that God and Good were synonymous and were found in all of us.
4. And I found that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers, I became more comfortable and steady.”
- J.B., San Diego, California.

Nice!

sugarbear1 · 08-08-2012, 07:32 PM

Charon, did you even listen to this?? It may answer your question, just maybe.

Charon · 08-09-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarbear1

Charon, did you even listen to this?? It may answer your question, just maybe.

I listened to Joe & Charlie and Ray O'Keefe in full. I started to listen to this one but, you know what, I just don't believe - and someone spouting "god" in every sentence doesn't make me want to continue listening.

I've heard so many rationalizations and twisted "you can call anything 'god'" arguments that I just can't listen anymore. I believe that there are tons of powers greater than me - tidal waves, weather, earthquakes, ecology, and on and on and on. Are any of them going to restore me to sanity, have any (other than random) control over my life, something that I can "turn my life over to"? **** no.

I have no belief in a one size fits all, be all and end all, "program" developed by a couple of drunks (one of whom begged for a drink on his death bed) more than 70 years ago. Sorry to be so honest. I rejected theology before I was a teen. Don't think I can convert now.

augustwest · 08-09-2012, 07:59 AM

Oh you're just trollin'. Sweet. I assumed you took issue with the video because you believe in "God".

UpperbucksAAguy · 08-09-2012, 05:00 PM

Jimmy used the term Athiest and Agnostic interchangeably in different talks

sugarbear1 · 08-09-2012, 06:39 PM

I can't speak for an Atheist or for an Agnostic.
I can't speak for someone who had religion in their life.
I don't enjoy when a religious god is spoken about in a meeting of AA.

I can speak for me, one who had a "warped" conception of God, and who now believes that a power greater than I exists. I've always believed in a god.

I sometimes refer to this power greater than I as god and I keep that conception as a personal definition and I try to stay quiet about it today. It works for me, for now.

There's another man on xa-speakers.org, Ben W., who has a great talk, I'm not sure if he's Atheist or not, but he does talk about almost never returning to AA after his first meeting.

The talk is listed as 1962, but I think I heard him talk about 1975 in it. I've heard it 2 times, but I keep falling asleep to it (mostly because I'm in bed and tired when I put it on, not because it's boring). I will keep listening to him until I can pay full attention to what he says!

CaiHong · 08-11-2012, 08:20 PM

As a teenager I would say that there were only 2 kinds of love, mother's love and god'slove both which I saw then as unconditional.
Then the notion of god became something not without but within. I came back from India in my search for god (why bother doing anything else but search for god) and told my newly ordained brother, god is in me. we never spoke for 10 years.
Now I understand god is experienced and to even to talk about whether he exists or not seems silly.

CaiHong

sugarbear1 · 08-12-2012, 10:30 AM

and yet, you just did! LOL

CaiHong · 08-12-2012, 03:53 PM

Quite right Sugarbear,
I was thinking about the thread yesterday as I was sweeping and thought about what I really meant. To argue about the existence of god when I believe that you experience god,not rationalize him is closer to what I meant. On the other hand spiritual teachers can give my pointers.
I have nearly finished The spirituality of Imperfection, I remember you mentioning it a long time ago. I find it very useful.
love
CaiHong

sugarbear1 · 08-12-2012, 05:03 PM

It is so difficult to joke over the internet....I DO understand what you were really trying to say, I was just joking around....

That book is quite interesting, isn't it?

08-06-2012, 08:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	Jim B., the Atheist, Talks about Steps 4 & 5 steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv - YouTube take a listen! __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-06-2012, 08:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
augustwest dopeless hope fiend Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Here. Now. Posts: 1,021	I can't watch it until i get off work but i'd also be interested in his thoughts on 2,3,6,7, and 11. __________________ Obstacles are stepping stones that guide us to our goals Fences are filters are that purify our souls

08-06-2012, 01:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	The end was a bit cut off, at least on my pc..... there are more from others on utube. __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-07-2012, 03:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	I get a You Tube link for the talk. Not sure what you are getting. Maybe just search on You Tube for:" steps 4 and 5 explain by Jim B tk 2.wmv " on there. I'd love to listen to your link, Zencat, if my laptop will download it!! __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-08-2012, 06:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
bbthumper Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,139	Not an atheist myself, but here is a lead from a guy who I have a lot of respect for who lives in my neck of the woods. He was an atheist when he came it and still is today. One of the most active AAs out there and has a great story. XA-Speakers - The lights are on! __________________ *~BBThumper* ~All Big Book Quotes from the 1st edition A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. C. S. Lewis

08-08-2012, 06:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
Charon Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: upstate NY - mentally under salt water Posts: 712	I listened to the first few minutes. Got a question. What is an atheist doing talking about god, asking god, etc? Doesn't sound like any atheist I've ever heard of. __________________ Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. -- Maori Proverb

08-08-2012, 06:43 AM	#8 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	I believe that once one works through the steps, then maybe they have decided there is some kind of power greater than them as the obsession has been removed....not sure.... I know my sponsor who was an athiest is now a believer, but has their own conception of a power greater than them, but for conformity, uses the word god in AA meetings... it's less controversial. Not really sure. I've always been a believer, but I was never a religious person. Today, after experiencing a spiritual awakening, I DO believe in that power, I choose to use the word god, but I don't explain my conception to others. You'd have to ask one of these athiests directly..... __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-08-2012, 07:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	Charon, did you even listen to this?? It may answer your question, just maybe. __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-09-2012, 07:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
augustwest dopeless hope fiend Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Here. Now. Posts: 1,021	Oh you're just trollin'. Sweet. I assumed you took issue with the video because you believe in "God". __________________ Obstacles are stepping stones that guide us to our goals Fences are filters are that purify our souls

08-09-2012, 05:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
UpperbucksAAguy Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 464	Jimmy used the term Athiest and Agnostic interchangeably in different talks __________________ All Big Book quotes are from first Edition -

08-09-2012, 06:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	I can't speak for an Atheist or for an Agnostic. I can't speak for someone who had religion in their life. I don't enjoy when a religious god is spoken about in a meeting of AA. I can speak for me, one who had a "warped" conception of God, and who now believes that a power greater than I exists. I've always believed in a god. I sometimes refer to this power greater than I as god and I keep that conception as a personal definition and I try to stay quiet about it today. It works for me, for now. There's another man on xa-speakers.org, Ben W., who has a great talk, I'm not sure if he's Atheist or not, but he does talk about almost never returning to AA after his first meeting. The talk is listed as 1962, but I think I heard him talk about 1975 in it. I've heard it 2 times, but I keep falling asleep to it (mostly because I'm in bed and tired when I put it on, not because it's boring). I will keep listening to him until I can pay full attention to what he says! __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-11-2012, 08:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
CaiHong Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,741	As a teenager I would say that there were only 2 kinds of love, mother's love and god'slove both which I saw then as unconditional. Then the notion of god became something not without but within. I came back from India in my search for god (why bother doing anything else but search for god) and told my newly ordained brother, god is in me. we never spoke for 10 years. Now I understand god is experienced and to even to talk about whether he exists or not seems silly. CaiHong

08-12-2012, 10:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	and yet, you just did! LOL __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

08-12-2012, 03:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
CaiHong Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,741	Quite right Sugarbear, I was thinking about the thread yesterday as I was sweeping and thought about what I really meant. To argue about the existence of god when I believe that you experience god,not rationalize him is closer to what I meant. On the other hand spiritual teachers can give my pointers. I have nearly finished The spirituality of Imperfection, I remember you mentioning it a long time ago. I find it very useful. love CaiHong

08-12-2012, 05:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
sugarbear1 ~sb Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: MD Posts: 9,763	It is so difficult to joke over the internet....I DO understand what you were really trying to say, I was just joking around.... That book is quite interesting, isn't it? __________________ Someday everything will all make sense. For now, laugh at confusion, smile through tears, & remind yourself that everything happens for a reason. All Big Book quotes are from the first edition. Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

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