Can a spiritual awakening lead to a defect of character?

[UpperbucksAAguy]

Assume on the other hand that father has, at the outset, a stirring spiritual experience. Overnight, as it were, he is a different man. He becomes a religious enthusiast. He is unable to focus on anything else. As soon as his sobriety begins to be taken as a matter of course, the family may look at their strange new dad with apprehension, then with irritation. There is talk about spiritual matters morning, noon and night. He may demand that the family find God in a hurry, or exhibit amazing indifference to them and say he is above worldly considerations. He may tell mother, who has been religious all her life, that she doesn’t know what it’s all about, and that she had better get
his brand of spirituality while there is yet time.- BB page 128

"There is talk about spiritual matters morning, noon and night." Do you see this as a potential problem? Take it out of the home for a second- could it be an issue in your group? With your sponsor/sponsee?

"He may demand that the family find God in a hurry" Put this into a meeting, demanding the obstinate athiest find God now, or the one who fails to see "your" version of a Higher Power. Is this a problem? Or is this chapter only valid in your home? Are we all brothers and sisters?

[muvinon]

God obsession? I believe it can be.

Father Terry R. said that he had a God obsession in early sobriety. And then, somewhere around year 17, realized that he actually had a crappy relationship with God. His "face of God" was alot like a high school principal.

:_

I personally think......obsession is obsession. Usually doesn't yield much and irritates the heck out of everyone else.

[UpperbucksAAguy]

Through the continued inventory process I have found that:

Love
Loyalty
Faith in God

Can lead to defective behavior

[shaun00]

I believe god can and does remove all my little obsessions if i am specific in prayer .

I was plagued by a few in early recovery ..way after the obsession for booze was removed .

That would include, constantly reading the BB and constantly wittering on about it ..... another false god.

In my experience the program is sold on attraction...rather than promotion....so that would include god....i cant and don't force my conception of god and anyone.

I think that attraction rather than promotion works in AA, works at home and i have witnessed it work when a recover alcoholic attends other anonymous meetings.....ie, over eaters, narcotics anonymous....It has its benefits for all, but attraction always come first.

[tomsteve]

welp, this is quite a question. i believe that,1st, the spiritual awakening comes as a result of the steps. and a spiritual awakening in the 12 and 12 says:

when a man or women has a spiritual awakening, the most important meaning of it is he has now become able to do,feel, and believe that which he could not do before on his unaided strangth and resources alone. he has been granted a gift which amounts to a new state of consciousness and being..."

so i dont think it leads to a defect of character. it takes us away from them. however, we are human and can get spiritual pride.

[DayTrader]

I don't believe a spiritual awakening is the "cause" (my word, not putting words in your mouth) but we humans especially alkies are quite adept at taking a good thing, over-using it, and creating problems in the process.

A connection with God can't be anything BUT good, love, and perfect. When it branches into spiritual pride or some other form of negativity, that has everything to do with us and our fallibility, not the awakening in and of itself.

[Route164]

Reading the paragraphs after, Bill Wilson talks about the state of spiritual infancy and that the newcomer (father) eventually will see their imbalance ... I think a pink cloud effect is natural and I would be surprised if one didn't go through the elated, intoxicated effect that being connected to God for the first time after a life time of separation from God brings on ... I would never squash a new comers spiritual experience if in the early days they are on fire with God and their new found "gold" as the reading says ... Provided they soon see their gold will never go away, it is unlimited , provided they mine for it and give away the entire product.
I think there is more danger in meetings/families where God is left at door and in the meeting/dinner table etc. it is more of a support group talking about how problems are being solved and defects are being removed without the help of God. I sit in many, many meetings like this ... I would rather be in a meeting of God "obsessed" folks than those applying human power to a malady ONLY God can handle ..." God is everything or else he is nothing " p.53 Bill is pretty clear here that if I am to err on the side of caution , God obsession is the way to go .

[Mark75]

Well, I don't believe that the spiritual awaken creates the character defect. If there is piety demonstrated by recovered alcoholic, or, heck, anyone... that is an expression of an underlying "defect" that is not limited to your question.

Heck yes, there are some pious individuals everywhere, not just in AA.

Sober up a horse thief...

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by DayTrader

...When it branches into spiritual pride or some other form of negativity, that has everything to do with us and our fallibility, not the awakening in and of itself.

IMNSHO there is a fine line between Spiritual Pride and a "willingness to go to any lengths" to find spiritual growth. I myself am damn proud to say I have both Spiritual Pride and exceptional humility. I pity the fool that thinks anything less is making a total commitment to the spiritual life. I may be humble, but thank God I am not so modest as to throw the baby out with the bath-water.

Modesty is just a mere mask compared to humility. Humility is how I act when I am alone. Which in my case is about 95% of the time. If I just acted modest 5% of the time, I could still be a selfish a-hole in God's eyes.

I use humility to monitor my reduction in pride and I use pride to monitor my spiritual growth. It is certainly is a roller-coaster ride to maintain this stormy relationship between pride and humility, however, anything less would be half-measures in my book.

"Sometimes we become so damn spiritual that we are of no earthly use to anyone."
(Hank Johnson)

[Route164]

I think it canbe false humility to play down my devotion to God , who saved me and recovered me , out of fear what people might think or say about me .
My commitment is to God and God alone .
I want to help others because that is his will for me ... This programs give me my marching orders ... I have no effective mental defense - I must do Gods work and not my own.
I used tO think it sounded arrogant to say I am an agent of God, now I see it is arrogant of me to claim other wise - the opposite would be an agent of me .
I love God with all my heart- he recovered me , brought me back to life. And it takes going to any lengths to keep my ego from rebuilding and telling me I am keeping myself clean and sober and free and a slave to no one !

[2granddaughters]

I believe recovery is a process and we have to go through the process.

The process usually involves going from one side of "balance" to the other until moderation is found and attainable/sustainable.

Like my old sponsor said when the subject of sex was brought up. He said "Show me an alky and I'll show you someone with a sex problem ... too much or too little"

Same goes for GOD in most cases. Too much or too little.

God will do for me what I cannot do for myself. I have to do Gods work, not God's job.

Continued, continued, continued ........ living sober and learning ....ODAAT.

All the best.

Bob R

[Route164]

I think of agent of God as if I were an agent for an athlete ; I can represent them but I cannot do what they do.

[NYCDoglvr]

It's good to remember "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking". And, Mother Teresa wrote in her desire that she frequently doubted God. Well I'm an agnostic sober 20+ years and the program works for me. Yes, I have a higher power.

[Route164]

I love our fellowship not only accepts but encourages diversity and we all can Have our own HP.
The big book mentions faith must work in and through us 24 hours a day or we perish .
I do not strive to be mother theresa . Only a drunk who must perfect and enlarge upOn my experience with a higher power.

[UpperbucksAAguy]

I believe our defects have the potential to lead us closer to God like no other force can, so I do not see defect manifestation during a spiritual journey as anything other than part of that journey

[Route164]

My sponsor has helped me to see how God can transform a defect/liability into an asset if I co-operate with Him ...
So my zeal and thirst for God used to be channeled literally as thirst for drugs and alcohol .
My defiance used as tenacity and perseverance on the path.
Surrender to god so he can use me -
And yes! I pray that my zeal be tempered at times but I NEVER let anyone mess with my point with God and I don't to others ... If this sounds close minded so be it but my
Recovery is based on my right relationship with god, not people pleasing.

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by Route164

Recovery is based on my right relationship with god, not people pleasing.

People pleasing is seldom the same as God pleasing. That is why I do not directly persue modesty.

"Sought after virtue is not true virtue."
- Lao Tzu

[freya]

OK so let's say that the character defect is obsession, or addictive personality, or whatever you want to call it....The Spiritual Awakening doesn't cause the character defect to come into existence, but the Spiritual Awakening could certainly cause the character defect to shift to a new/different object of obsession/"drug" of choice.

I have a friend who has been sober for 32 years. She says that she is never, ever going to get over her "addictive personality" (which, of course, means she won't since she is choosing, by believing that, to limit God's power in her life) and that the best she can hope for is to continually "trade-up" in terms of addictions. So, she's hoping, by the time she dies, to be addicted to reading the Bible and listening to classical music!

And, in all honesty "trading up" from drugs and alcohol to God due to a Spiritual Awakening is probably a "step in the right direction," because 1) addiction to God is probably not going to kill one, so that means one has more time to grow/improve/recover further; and 2) God is more likely to lead one in a healthy direction than drugs and alcohol....or than addiction to another human being....or whatever....

....and recovery IS progress, not perfection.

freya

[Db1105]

No

[Route164]

My pastor believes that his experience with alcoholics and addicts has shown him the need for God, the HUNGER for God is more prominent in believers with addiction. God has recovered me from the mental obsession and physical allergy; the spiritual malady needs to be addressed daily so I remain recovered.

The third step in the Big Book mentions ANY life run on self will will hardly be a success. I do not get recovered then get to take my will back and use it for my own benefit/limited aims for my life. My life literally belongs to God; he saved me.

I am a born again Christian and have strong convictions as a result of my certainty that my creator is performing each and every miracle in my life. I have wondered if I am becoming obsessional about God at times but I know that I got to a place where I was willing to follow literal direction. I believe the 12 steps and the program as laid out can recover me from alcohol and drug addiction but aiming for surrendering every area of my life over to God can recover me from all the lies of the world in a progressive way. It is spiritual progress not spiritual perfection but that is not meant for me to twist and pervert and procrastinate character building.

Where I can get "defective" in this area is if I shove my beliefs upon others , sit in judgement of those who are not believers, or feel superior than others. This is where 6 and 7 and the practice of practicing true humility and an open mind so I can grown in faith that God has it all under control for all of us.

So, for me, God can be everything so long as I am not expecting others to share the same zeal ... or recognize we all show our zeal in our own unique ways. All the people who watched me killing myself in every way with drugs and booze and many other things definitly would prefer to see me head over feels for Jesus than shut away in a tiny apartment praying to the God of my misunderstanding to die.

I have enjoyed this thread much, that again for a great start up post !