AA members and anonymity outside the rooms?

[Jeni26]

I'm feeling a little freaked out.
I just ran into the guy who told me to wait 6 months before starting the steps in our local supermarket. I was on my own thankfully, he said hi then tried to engage me in conversation. I was as polite as I could be but I didn't want to get into a discussion in the middle of a crowded store.
I paid up, then found him waiting by my car. I double backed and he followed me back into the shop and gave me a grin.
I thought we were all anonymous out in the real world? I could easily have been with a friend or someone from work who know nothing about my alcoholism.
Am I being overly sensitive? This guy is starting to make me feel uncomfortable.

[Gottalife]

Well, we're not meant to be anonymous to each other, and for ourselves anonimity is practiced at the level of TV radio etc. But we have an obligation to protect the anonimity of others such as yourself. Discretion is called for. If I return a 12 step phone call and get, say, a member of the family, I never disclose my AA membership. Likewise if I met you in a store I would certainly be friendly, but I would only engage in very general conversation if others could overhear. I belive it is my responsibility to be discreet and I think most AA members would concur. But there is always the exception.

[dancinggirl]

Has happened to me before, too!! Absolutely freaked me out! This guy came up to me infront of my kids, while I was working a booth for a store I owned! I think if it happens to me again I'll just politely ask him to wait to talk to me about it at a meeting. They should get the point.

[tomsteve]

Originally Posted by Jeni26

I'm feeling a little freaked out.
I just ran into the guy who told me to wait 6 months before starting the steps in our local supermarket. I was on my own thankfully, he said hi then tried to engage me in conversation. I was as polite as I could be but I didn't want to get into a discussion in the middle of a crowded store.
I paid up, then found him waiting by my car. I double backed and he followed me back into the shop and gave me a grin.
I thought we were all anonymous out in the real world? I could easily have been with a friend or someone from work who know nothing about my alcoholism.
Am I being overly sensitive? This guy is starting to make me feel uncomfortable.

what concerns me more than the anonymity thing is the stalkin thing. telling you to wait 6 months then following you gives me a bad feeling, like there are wrong motives there. since you are unfomfortable,stay away from him. dont be afraid to tell him in front of witnesses to stay away from you,too.

[heath480]

Speak to him and talk with your sponsor.

[FlyerFan]

That sounds a little creepy. Lol. If it happens again just politely explain to him that you'd prefer to only talk about AA in the meetings. It sounds more stalkerish then anything.

[wow04]

I have to agree with TomSteve on this one. I would be more concerned about him following you.

I have no issue talking to other AA members outside of meetings. I also have the openness about being a member of the AA program.

[Jeni26]

Ok thanks guys. Not sure about the stalking thing, I might be being totally naive but it was more the concern that he wanted to engage in a conversation outside the rooms in a public place that freaked me.
He is very well respected I think at our group, and although I chose not to follow the advice about waiting 6 months, I think it was well intentioned.
I guess just a friendly wave and a hello would have been fine with me today.

[PaperDolls]

Well respected or not, this is strange behavior. Waiting by your car, following you around. Not cool and way creepy.

As far as the anonymity thing .... I don't see that as an issue here. Just because someone from AA is speaking with you in public doesn't mean you're being "outed". We don't wear signs. Now, if you're with someone else and an AA friend sees you in public and says, Hey, I know you from AA! How are you? Not cool at all. But to say hi .... heck, i say hi to strangers out in public so of course I say hi to friends.

Please be leery of this guy.

[Music]

Jen, if hs actions make you uncomfortable, listen to your gut. Don't try to excuse his actions just because he happens to be in AA. I got a creepy feeling while reading your post. I'm not all that anonymous when I'm out in public about my AA membership but I don't expose anyone else's. I've met friends in the program in a store but that's where the conversation ended. If you see him at a meeting, share your feelings about your anonymity in front of others, or ask your sponsor to accompany you and let your feelings be known. Either way, I'd put the damper on any ideas he may have about getting any closer to you.

[Jeni26]

Ok thanks. There aren't many women in our group at all which is why it's taken me so long to get a sponsor and start work. I get the impression he likes to feel important and by cornering me in a meeting and imparting his advice, then trying to do the same out of the rooms, he is just exercising his ego.
I know enough about AA to understand this isn't correct behaviour. I may just avoid the meeting he attends in future. A shame because it's the step meeting which I find the most beneficial to me at the moment, plus it's on a Friday night which historically is my drinking night, so it is a welcome distraction and a break in routine for me.
I will give it some thought. I didnt feel threatened just a bit protective of my own privacy. It's my local store and I know many people who work and shop there. Other parents of my kids friends etc.
I guess I'm not ok with others knowing I've got/had issues with drinking. Maybe I'm not ready to face the world with that being public knowledge? I'm still very much a newcomer to all this, 10 weeks sober tomorrow!

[2granddaughters]

Jeni, we don't know the member nor his motive for sharing with you.
This is a very good example of why it is so important to take the advice of your sponsor over opinions on the internet.

All the best.

Bob R

[Jeni26]

Yeah, you're right Bob, sorry x

[Mark75]

Originally Posted by Jeni26

Maybe I'm not ready to face the world with that being public knowledge?

Congrats on your 10 weeks... Awesome.

Hey, I will be four years next month, and I am still not ready for my issues with pills and alcohol to be public knowledge... and uh, why should I be? I mean, if it gets out, I can probably handle it, but I'd rather not, it serves no purpose...

[augustwest]

How the hell did he know which car to wait by? That, and following you around is creepy. Possibly harmless, but creepy nonetheless.

[Charmie]

jeni...i experienced a man giving me unwanted attention in AA when i was in early recovery...to all intents and purposes and to most other people he seemed harmless and just as if he was being friendly...but i got a feeling in my gut...whatever his intents and purposes were he overstepped my personal boundaries...and i dont give a **** if someone is just being friendly( i can deal with this at a later date...early on please put your safety first)...if i feel uncomfortable i deal with it.....i was terrified of calling this guy out but call him out i did...in front of witness's.
i told him very very firmly and seriously but politely that i did not want the attention he was giving me whether it was well intentioned or not....that i have my people who i stick close to and told him in no uncertain terms not to stand over my chair or invade my personal space.i also dont give a **** how well respected he may seem..i learned a lot more about this kind of thing later on in my journey.if he has a decent sobriety he WOULD NOT be going and standing by your car or following you back into shops...PERIOD!! in early sobriety i used to hang around this married couple who have 70 years sobriety between them now and have lots and lots of respect from other people...in most of the meetings in my area...i got to know a bit about this couple and how they operated and i would not swap their 70 years for my first 3 months crazy as i was.......time, in my experience...hangers on and seeming respect from others means very little a lot of the time...this man if he was on the path would not be behaving like this.

[UpperbucksAAguy]

In public, your anonymity is mine to protect, that means I should not break my anonymity at the expense of you. If I meet you in public and you are with someone I do not know I do not break mine or yours

[FlyerFan]

Originally Posted by UpperbucksAAguy

In public, your anonymity is mine to protect, that means I should not break my anonymity at the expense of you. If I meet you in public and you are with someone I do not know I do not break mine or yours

well said. I work with several AA's and we all see each other at work but we dont speak of the program unless nobody else is around. Its kind of fun tho like a secret society sort of thing. lol

[UpperbucksAAguy]

Dr Bob said it best:

So many in Alcoholics Anonymous, both old-timers and newcomers alike, do not have an understanding of the 11th and 12th Traditions relating to Anonymity, and the relationship of Anonymity to the Spiritual Ideals contained in the 12 Steps of AA, the principles and ideals of TRUST, Honesty, Hope, Faith, Courage, Integrity, Willingness, Humility, Brotherly Love, Justice, Perseverance, Spirituality, and Service to One Another.

To the extent that my sponsors explained it to me, and from what I have read from the history of AA, I will try to put this VITAL issue into some kind of proper perspective.

These selections from A.A. literature clarify the 11th Tradition and its intent.

In some sections of A.A., anonymity is carried to the point of real absurdity. Members are on such a poor basis of communication that they don't even know each other's last names or where each lives. - As Bill Sees it, page 241

...[Dr. Bob] said there were two ways to break the Anonymity Tradition: (1) by giving your name at the public level of press or radio; (2) by being so anonymous that you can't be reached by other drunks. - Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers, page 264

The 11th Tradition states, in the short form, "Eleven -- Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films." (And we might also add TV at this level for further restriction.)

The 12th Tradition states, in the short form, "Twelve -- Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities." (Even before my own personality.)

Dr. Bob stated that within the group, every member should know the first name, last name, address and phone number of all the members in the group. If these are not known, then we as a group are operating ABOVE the level of anonymity intended....... We are not able to be of Service to One Another in Time of Need.

Did you ever try to look up someone in the phone book (like your sponsor, or someone you related to, when your head was putting it on you??) without knowing their last name? Or go into a hospital or jail to try to visit or carry a meeting into a sick or incarcerated member, and stand there with your mouth hanging open, when asked, "What is their name?" No Name, No Visit, No Meeting ... "Sorry about that but we have our policies and procedures, sorry we can't help you."

Let us see what the long form of the 11th and 12th Traditions can give us in understanding Anonymity and the Principles we ought live by.

11. -- Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think A. A. ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.

12. --And finally, we of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all.

Ahh yes... we are to be anonymous relative to the "General Public", as members of Alcoholics Anonymous... We ought not be publicly identified as members of Alcoholics Anonymous in the press, on the radio or in films, videos, and TV, media which is disseminated to the General Public. It is a HUMILITY thing, we have no need to say "How great we are!". We think that in this respect the HUMILITY of A.A. will attract more suffering alcoholics to the program than any amount of advertising or promotion. It is a matter of TRUST.

Dr. Bob's comment --

"Since our Tradition on anonymity designates the exact level where the line should be held, it must be obvious to everyone who can read and understand the English language that to maintain anonymity at any other level is definitely a violation of this Tradition. "The AA who hides his identity from his fellow AA by using only a given name violates the Tradition just as much as the AA who permits his name to appear in the press in connection with matters pertaining to AA.

"The former is maintaining his anonymity ABOVE the level of press, radio, and films, and the latter is maintaining his anonymity BELOW the level of press, radio, and films - whereas the Tradition states that we should maintain our anonymity AT the level of press, radio, and films."

[Db1105]

Originally Posted by UpperbucksAAguy

Dr Bob said it best:

So many in Alcoholics Anonymous, both old-timers and newcomers alike, do not have an understanding of the 11th and 12th Traditions relating to Anonymity, and the relationship of Anonymity to the Spiritual Ideals contained in the 12 Steps of AA, the principles and ideals of TRUST, Honesty, Hope, Faith, Courage, Integrity, Willingness, Humility, Brotherly Love, Justice, Perseverance, Spirituality, and Service to One Another.

To the extent that my sponsors explained it to me, and from what I have read from the history of AA, I will try to put this VITAL issue into some kind of proper perspective.

These selections from A.A. literature clarify the 11th Tradition and its intent.

In some sections of A.A., anonymity is carried to the point of real absurdity. Members are on such a poor basis of communication that they don't even know each other's last names or where each lives. - As Bill Sees it, page 241

...[Dr. Bob] said there were two ways to break the Anonymity Tradition: (1) by giving your name at the public level of press or radio; (2) by being so anonymous that you can't be reached by other drunks. - Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers, page 264

The 11th Tradition states, in the short form, "Eleven -- Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films." (And we might also add TV at this level for further restriction.)

The 12th Tradition states, in the short form, "Twelve -- Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities." (Even before my own personality.)

Dr. Bob stated that within the group, every member should know the first name, last name, address and phone number of all the members in the group. If these are not known, then we as a group are operating ABOVE the level of anonymity intended....... We are not able to be of Service to One Another in Time of Need.

Did you ever try to look up someone in the phone book (like your sponsor, or someone you related to, when your head was putting it on you??) without knowing their last name? Or go into a hospital or jail to try to visit or carry a meeting into a sick or incarcerated member, and stand there with your mouth hanging open, when asked, "What is their name?" No Name, No Visit, No Meeting ... "Sorry about that but we have our policies and procedures, sorry we can't help you."

Let us see what the long form of the 11th and 12th Traditions can give us in understanding Anonymity and the Principles we ought live by.

11. -- Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think A. A. ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.

12. --And finally, we of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all.

Ahh yes... we are to be anonymous relative to the "General Public", as members of Alcoholics Anonymous... We ought not be publicly identified as members of Alcoholics Anonymous in the press, on the radio or in films, videos, and TV, media which is disseminated to the General Public. It is a HUMILITY thing, we have no need to say "How great we are!". We think that in this respect the HUMILITY of A.A. will attract more suffering alcoholics to the program than any amount of advertising or promotion. It is a matter of TRUST.

Dr. Bob's comment --

"Since our Tradition on anonymity designates the exact level where the line should be held, it must be obvious to everyone who can read and understand the English language that to maintain anonymity at any other level is definitely a violation of this Tradition. "The AA who hides his identity from his fellow AA by using only a given name violates the Tradition just as much as the AA who permits his name to appear in the press in connection with matters pertaining to AA.

"The former is maintaining his anonymity ABOVE the level of press, radio, and films, and the latter is maintaining his anonymity BELOW the level of press, radio, and films - whereas the Tradition states that we should maintain our anonymity AT the level of press, radio, and films."

Upperbucks post says it all concerning AA and anonymity. Standing by your car is creepy, following you back into the store is stalking. Being fellow AA members is not an entitlement to engage in conversation with anyone. A polite acknowledgement and saying you don't want to talk is all you need to do. I would be very leary of anyone who has no respect for boundries.