A simple program for complicated people?

[UpperbucksAAguy]

Pole Vaulting over mouse turds:

I am sitting in a meeting and the speaker is talking about the principles behind each step. He sounded really sure of himself as he talked about the first step being all about honesty. Funny, I would have thought it was surrender...

As he spoke, few were paying attention to him, some seemed annoyed and from my seat it appeared that no one was connecting with the speaker.

As he opened the meeting up for sharing the meeting went all over the place. I felt the need to share but didn't know where to begin. I made a commitment to make certain I kept my message simple. We like to dress up our simple program and say things like:

It's a simple program for complicated people.

That statement is rooted in egotistical thinking and not at all in keeping with the Big Book. We are not complicated people:

We are average Americans ( from 1st edition- obviously we are International now). All sections of this country and many of its occupations are represented, as well as many political, economic, social, and religious backgrounds.- BB page 17

AA is a simple program, the steps are the principles. We do not need to complicate it

[Sapling]

We have a poster on the wall of my homegroup that lists the 12 principles...And Honesty is the first one.

[sugarbear1]

most of the steps have multiple principles behind their intent.

~another opinion

[UpperbucksAAguy]

The steps are the principles. The 12th step tells us to practice these principles in all our affairs. Why is that not ok with AA folks?

[Mark75]

IDK...

I think you are right, we are all complicated.... complicated is not the exclusive domain of the alcoholic...

I wanted to understand it, what it means, why, all that, this recovery thing. I am no more complicated than anyone else but I wanted to come at the steps intellectually. Maybe from an objective POV... Safe. That left me uninvolved spiritually. It was not so much that I was being egocentric, it's just I knew no other way. Intellectuallizing was how I had approached everything previously, and was a mechanism for justification.

Justification was what I had to unlearn.

I had to utilize, not analyze... LOL

[shaun00]

Maybe not so complicated , more self absorbed .
The work is simple ...The levelling of pride not so simple .
Loved to pontificate about a certain step , all the while avoiding it lol .

[UpperbucksAAguy]

The work is simple ...The levelling of pride not so simple

I cannot deny that

[Stevie1]

I'm new to AA (even though it's my second time around) and I really need to stop thinking and analyzing everything, and just FEEL. Like Mark75, my default switch is set to "Question Authority" and I am working on being humble and just accepting at this point.

This is why, weird and difficult though it seems, I'm trying to get into the habit of getting on my knees and simply tapping into the greater strength than I that's out there. Hard for a life-long aetheist but I'm managing somehow!

[Tommyh]

Originally Posted by UpperbucksAAguy

The steps are the principles. The 12th step tells us to practice these principles in all our affairs. Why is that not ok with AA folks?

thats how i see it too

[2granddaughters]

It's taking me years (decades) to be assimilated into AA ... a lot of old habits to break.

All the best.

Bob R

[omegasupreme]

Another step 1 principle-Admission

What does a ticket read at the movie theater? Admit one. What does it mean to admit? To let in.

When I admit my powerlessness and unmanageability...that my life, drunk or sober is an absolute mess-that nothing I can do can keep me sober or living a satisfactory life...that's the admission ticket that let's God in.

That sure sounds alot like surrender right? To cease resistance to an enemy or opponent and submit to their authority.

Does it matter what I call it? Probably not. But I bet my ego will darn sure argue semantics quickly turning any discussion into a session of Alconomics 101. Does it matter if I internalize it? Grasp it? Do it? Yes!

And everything I've just posted could be absolutely wrong too...is it working for me? Yes. I've always been curious...who or what has the authority to dub something a "spiritual principle?" Aren't they all just pointers to point me to that which Is? Or is? And then toss it away...I'm great at looking at the finger instead of what it's pointing at.

[Route164]

"Aren't they all just pointers to point me to that which Is? Or is? And then toss it away...I'm great at looking at the finger instead of what it's pointing at."

Thanks for this Omega!
"As an insurance against "big-shot-ism" we can often check ourselves by remembering that we are today sober only by the grace of God and any success we may have is far more His success than ours."
p.92 12&12

In my case, replace big-shot-ism with spiritual or intellectual pride.

The steps diagnose me, lead me to the solution and provide guides to and for progress but it is the grace of God that relieves me of my alcoholism. That helps me to keep it simple and stay humble.

[DayTrader]

Originally Posted by shaun00

Loved to pontificate about a certain step , all the while avoiding it lol .

sooooooooo true! lol

[UpperbucksAAguy]

But I bet my ego will darn sure argue semantics

What they call step one is irrelevant ( surrender, admission etc...)

He sounded really sure of himself as he talked about the first step being all about honesty. Funny, I would have thought it was surrender...

The speaker TOLD US what the principle of the first step was, my response was the beginning of the divide between me and the speaker. The speaker did not share his experience, he told us what we should be understanding about the first step. That is not AA.

In short- that is speaking for effect and not from experience. This is not about semantics at all

[muvinon]

I don't really care about the clever sayings.....I suspect they were coined by some clever speakers in AA who enjoy finding new ways to share the same ideas.

BUT......I completely agree about those principles being connected with the steps. I end up trying to stretch things in my brain to make them fit.

I never have liked those lists.

[omegasupreme]

Originally Posted by UpperbucksAAguy

What they call step one is irrelevant ( surrender, admission etc...)



The speaker TOLD US what the principle of the first step was, my response was the beginning of the divide between me and the speaker. The speaker did not share his experience, he told us what we should be understanding about the first step. That is not AA.

In short- that is speaking for effect and not from experience. This is not about semantics at all

My apologies. I was sleepy when I typed that last night. I should have payed closer attention.

[UpperbucksAAguy]

No worries- No offense taken at all. Just clarifying better

[augustwest]

I'm all for keeping it simple, but i don't find underlying spiritual principles a complicated concept at all. I am not interested in being told by someone what they are/aren't though. Speakers aren't teachers giving a lecture.

[NYCDoglvr]

It's a simple program for complicated people.That statement is rooted in egotistical thinking and not at all in keeping with the Big Book. We are not complicated people:

I disagree. Alcoholism is a mental illness and we certainly don't think like other people. This isn't a disease of the elbow; it's our thinking that's different. I'm not sure what Wilson meant by "average", it may refer to us having ordinary jobs and being middle class. But it took a good size book for him to describe us and offer tools for recovery. Alcoholics use those tools, non-alcoholics don't need them.

[UpperbucksAAguy]

Alcoholism is a mental illness

I don't believe it is a mental illness. If that were the case I would not require a spiritual awakening