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Old 06-01-2011, 04:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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4th step column 1 (principles)

Can some of you give me specific examples of Principles that you had resentments agains, why they made you angry, what basic instincts (self-esteme, finances, ambitions, personal relations) were thretened, how you contributed to the problem, and what character defects that caused it.

I know this is personal stuff, so it doesn't have to be something that pertains specificaly to you. Maybe something you heard from someone else, or just something that you can imagine.

I was told that "principles" are considered to be social guidelines or "Old rules". Like the 10 comandments, or some exspression that you were told by others i.e. "If you sleep with dogs you get flees"

I didn't come up with any for my 4th step and was thinking that I might have the wrong idea of what they ment by "Principles" in the BB.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Dune,
One of my resentments involving principles was a resentment against mainstream AA for all of the non-program slogans and sayings. For example, 90 meetings in 90 days, meeting makers make it, don't drink and go to meetings, put the plug in the jug, I choose not to drink today ODAAT, etc. I put all of it into a single resentment. This is how it looked:

Resentment: AA slogans and sayings in mainstream AA

Nature of Resentment: created confusion about what the program of AA actually is and meant that finding the path of recovery was that much more difficult for me and for others

Affects my: ambitions, personal relations and fear

Resentment turn-around:

Selfish -- I wanted a clear, concise, understandable presentation as to what AA is and is not. I did not want the confusing and incongruent messages that I had heard repeatedly in AA meetings.


Dishonest -- Even if I had stumbled into a Back to Basics meeting or a 1940’s Big Book Study meeting, I would not have heard or accepted the message until I was ready. I needed certain experiences in my life (i.e., trying a controlled drinking experiment, trying abstinence based on self-knowledge and willpower) to bring me to the place where I am currently. I think I know how best the world, including AA, should run. If the world would just do things my way, then life would be great.

Self-Seeking (Inconsiderate) -- I withdrew and stopped attending AA meetings. I don’t need to go to meetings to not drink (i.e., don’t drink and go to meetings). I can just not drink, or so I thought.

Afraid -- Fear of rejection. Fear of inadequacy. Fear of the future.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DUNE View Post
why they made you angry, what basic instincts (self-esteme, finances, ambitions, personal relations) were thretened,
This part, for me, is a big tip off that I'm dealing with a principle instead of a person. There really isn't anything personally threatened. Instead, my way of life, my view of the world, my sense of right and wrong is being impinged on.

For instance, I see somebody stuff something up their shirt in the grocery store, and it ticks me off. I can make up all sorts of 'it affects me, blah blah, it raises prices for all of us, blah blah', but the truth is, it offends my sense of justice and right and wrong. I'm not resentful at the person, I'm resentful at the principle of "People shouldn't steal."

So in that turnaround/4th column, I get to look at exactly why I feel so offended. What is the lie that fuels my belief?
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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First of all, column 1 is not Principals. Column 1 is the people I am resentful at.

Column 2 is why I am resentful, ie they lied, they paid attention to my spouse, they treated me shabbily

Column 3, is what is affects in me, ie my self esteem, security, personal relationship, etc

Please follow the BB, keep it simple. Most of us, especially on our first try complicate the chit out of this step. lol

It is when I was done and sat down with my sponsor to do my 5th Step is when we got into principals, in general and the principal of EACH step in particular. I do the same thing with my sponsees.

Here is one list of those principles:

Quote:
1. Honesty - The operative principle behind step 1 is honesty. If you cannot get honest about the scope of your problem, and honest about a sincere effort to resolve it you will not succeed. How about a definition of honesty as the absence of the intention to deceive? Who do we try to fool? Ourselves


2. Hope – In order to engage in a course of addiction recovery, we must have hope of success. If there is no hope, why try? Perhaps we have failed on our own, how about enlisting some help? A way to instill hope is to realize recovery is not a question of ability; after all there are millions in recovery, but rather persistence and application.

3. Faith – This stage of action is to begin to employ the recovery skills being learned. You can seek out help, but it is also necessary to utilize it. Our job is to become willing to do the right thing. A simple way to view the ‘next right thing’ is don’t engage in your behavior. Have faith it will work.

4. Courage - This step is really about courage to honestly (see step 1) look at ourselves. Take a look at how our behavior has become warped to justify our continued behavior. We are here to take an honest assessment of ourselves.

5. Integrity - If we have truly done a thorough job of introspection and evaluation of our assets and shortcomings do we have the integrity to own up to it? It can be very difficult to be open and honest about our past behaviors. We accept the need for a dose of humility.

6. Willingness – Now that we have accomplished an inventory of the good and no so good aspects of our character and behavior, are we willing to change them? All of them? The important part in this 12 step principle is the willingness to let go of old behaviors.

7. Humility – Here we move further into action, in step 6 we became willing to as let go of our old behaviors, now we ask for help in actually letting go. Can we learn to forgive ourselves?

8. Discipline and Action – We are continuing to remove the barriers that can block forward sober growth. We are getting ready to sweep our side of the street clean. Make a list of all those people we have harmed both through actions and not being present to live up to obligations.

9. Forgiveness – Asking for the forgiveness of those we have intentionally or unintentionally injured is the order of the day. A key point here is to try to correct those injuries through action, not just words. It is highly recommended that guidance and help is utilized here. Asking forgiveness is not a gift to the other person, but rather an act of kindness to you.

10. Acceptance - To be human is to make mistakes. Hopefully our journey has led us to the point where we can readily admit mistakes and accept ourselves for being imperfect. We must also learn not to judge others but accept them for who they are, not our vision of who they should be.

11. Knowledge and Awareness – Here we search and become aware of following our path being aware of our purpose in life and actively pursuing it. I view this principle as just being aware, not being got up in the rush of life, making conscious effort to do the right thing and to be at peace.

12. Service and Gratitude - Having brought about a personality change sufficient to remain in recovery; we are empowered to demonstrate the new principles by which we live, in our daily life through example. We seek out and are available to help others in need.
Hope the above helps a bit.

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Old 06-01-2011, 10:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post

What is the lie that fuels my belief?
Self righteousness?
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Self righteousness?
Well, it wasn't a test question, but that answer applies pretty universally to my operating mode. It's a defect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurie6781 View Post
First of all, column 1 is not Principals. Column 1 is the people I am resentful at.
I nod my head in agreement with most everything you post, Laurie, but in the interest of not over complicating, I think you've thrown in some extra stuff.

Column 1 is people, institutions, or principles with which I'm angry. Simple as that. These are not the same as the spiritual principles that some clever person identified as pertaining to each Step.

I see some mom slap her kid in the store (hmmm, seems the grocery store is a great place for me to have my principles threatened), and I get ticked. Maybe I'm ticked at that person, but more often, the people and the particular things they've done to me are interchangeable and irrelevant. It's the principle that's threatened.

It's me playing God. It's me deciding how the world should be, and I sit in the Florida sunshine and moan when the world doesn't live up to my wonderful design plan. And then I remember, I don't work in management any more. I'm not in the design plan business. My job is act out my part in that design.

Whew, what a relief. That Grand Vision design stuff is exhausting.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanx keith, I thought it was a test question, LOL!!!! But I do pay a lot of attention to what you and quite a few others post here in the 12 step forum... So, yea, I guess I do test myself... Pride, that's my central defect, LOL
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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dune,that is one reason my sponsor had me look word definations before we started a step.We needed to be able to see eye to eye on those principles,etc....
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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principle,one meaning is rule of conduct or action.Example could be :good boys/girls don"t do that....another could be: you will go to h#@! for that....another could b: you are no good,you are a loser.....another could be: only a idiot would do that.....another could be: here he is,the neighborhood thief.....I thought back over my life to certain remarks relating to my past conduct and listed those.Every time I heard certain things like those Iisted as examples,I used to get madder and madder.Of course I needed to look at all my anger If I was ever to be free.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[QUOTEI nod my head in agreement with most everything you post, Laurie, but in the interest of not over complicating, I think you've thrown in some extra stuff.
][/QUOTE]

Not 'over complicating' at all Keith, it's straight from the BB. Nothing about principals in Column 1. Just listing the folks we can 'remember' that we are angry and/or resentful at.

Now Column 2, when one gets to the 'nitty gritty' is where we start to look at OURSELVES to see if those resentments are in fact our own fault (our own expectations or not) and how we/I could have behaved differently.

Quote:
I see some mom slap her kid in the store (hmmm, seems the grocery store is a great place for me to have my principles threatened), and I get ticked.
Incidents like this are an immediate Step 10 for me to myself and immediately asking HP to 'protect' the child and 'help' the frustrated person to see.

We work on our 4th step alone, and share with our sponsor by doing the 5th Step and usually during that share is when the 'principals' start to appear which also helps us with that list of defects that we become entirely to have HP remove in Step 6 and then Humbly ask HP to remove in Step 7.

Nothing complicated at all. I was told and do believe to this day, that this is a very Simple program for very Complicated people. I don't believe in K.I.S.S ( despise the word 'stupic') but I do Keep It Simple.

J M H O

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Old 06-02-2011, 02:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks again everyone for the responces. I really apreciate your insight and exspirience on this and probably a lot more things that I will come up with.

I would like to clear up something though. I know some people have different ways of teaching or have been tought differently. But from what I have seen in the big book, the first column inludes People, institutions, and Principles that we have resentments against. The second column is the exsplination on why that person/thing made us angry (the cause). The third column is what basic instinct (self esteme, security, ambition, sex relations, or personal relations) was threatened. Big Book Pg 64, 65 4th ed.

I don't want to get cought up in the technical details of how exactly your supposed to graph and fill in. But I do feel that it is important to use this tool correctly to understand what character defects I have to work on, and how they negitively afect my life and the way I feel.

This is what I'm thinking so far.....Write down who/what I have resentments against (column 1), why (column 2), what basic instinct was threatened (column 3), then try to figure out what I did to contribute to the situation and write down what character defect caused this action (column 4). I got column 4 from what is said in BB pg 67 3rd par. After all that, work on ridding myself of those character defects, and pray for individuals that I have resentments against.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong or misinterpited anything from the BB.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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[QUOTEI nod my head in agreement with most everything you post, Laurie, but in the interest of not over complicating, I think you've thrown in some extra stuff.
]
Not 'over complicating' at all Keith, it's straight from the BB. Nothing about principals in Column 1. Just listing the folks we can 'remember' that we are angry and/or resentful at.

Now Column 2, when one gets to the 'nitty gritty' is where we start to look at OURSELVES to see if those resentments are in fact our own fault (our own expectations or not) and how we/I could have behaved differently.

QUOTE]

Laurie, I think I understand your columns now. Your saying, that whole thing bill did on pg 65 (4th ed.), Im resentfull at...The cause....Affects My, is column one. Then on pg 67 when they talk about "The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white" That's your second column.

Is that what you ment by Column 1 & 2?

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Old 06-02-2011, 04:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I just did a 4th and some principles made my list. For me, a principle meant "things I was taught," "beliefs I have/had," "popular beliefs," "ways/methods of doing things." I'm not saying that's WHAT it means.....or all that this is ALL it means......just that's what it meant to me this time through the 4th.

Some of these, I thought were "good" while others I thought were "bad." I wrote them down because they came into my head and I was thinking I wanted to explore the principles under which I operate and/or I think the world operates under.

Meeting makers make it
God helps those who help themselves
It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game
Nice guys finish last
Priorities in life - why do I often put "wants" ahead of "needs"
If money's your biggest problem, you have no problem
Material possessions bring me happiness
If people knew what was in my head, they wouldn't like me as much
RecoverING
RecoverED
There are many paths to sobriety
There's "one" way to work the AA program (or a "right" way)
Powerless over ppl, places and things......
A man would....... / A woman would...... (I had several of these.....beliefs about what a "real man" or "real woman" would/should do)
As you are, you're not quite there (aka, not quite good enough.....yet)


.....hope that helps....those are the biggies that I got some decent work out of. Found some pretty funny, embarassing, and just interesting things out about the way I think (and react) to some of those things.

It does say, we list people, principles, or institutions with which we were angry.......so principles go on the list.

Before all that though, it tells us that the inventory is a fact finding mission and that the goal is to determine the stock in trade. Well, a LOT of my stock in trade didn't and doesn't have "anger" attached to it. I'm not usually mad at anyone.....not consistently anyway. Long story I won't go into but "anger" was a big weapon of choice for my father on my mom, brother and I so........as I grew up.......I've made a lot of effort to not "use" anger on/against other ppl. That doesn't mean I don't have resentments because I do......but if I just look for the ones wrapped in anger, I don't find many. "Stock in trade" right? Well, a lot of my resentments are rooted more in shame, guilt, fear, and other emotions. Writing about principles has actually a lot.......even more than writing about the ppl I was/am actually mad at.

We're looking for the stuff that's blocking us from our fellows......and ultimately........from God. Sometimes, I think that process calls for extra work, alternatives, and additional ways of "inventorying." -- first time through, just do what the book says and get it done....there's a whole lifetime ahead to modify and dig deeper.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=laurie6781;2987146]
Quote:
Not 'over complicating' at all Keith, it's straight from the BB. Nothing about principals in Column 1. Just listing the folks we can 'remember' that we are angry and/or resentful at.
Laurie, for real?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st, pg 64
In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry.
Dune, the common language when talking about a resentment inventory, is just like Bill's example. Column 1 is who or what I'm angry at, Column 2 is what they did (The Cause), Column 3 is what it affects (those 6-7 areas), and Column 4 is the pg 67 directions (where was I selfish, self-seeking, afraid, dishonest, at fault, to blame, etc.)
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Laurie, I think I understand your columns now. Your saying, that whole thing bill did on pg 65 (4th ed.), Im resentfull at...The cause....Affects My, is column one. Then on pg 67 when they talk about "The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white" That's your second column.
No sweetie, the way my sponsors did nd I see it also these 30 years as the cause (column 2) is where we start to figure out that the cause was really ours not theirs. ie When we start out working on column two especially the first time, we are writing 'blame' to the other person, but as we continue we see where the faults were our own, whether it was our response, lack of response, how we responded, etc

At least after I did my Column 1. Then went back to the top of page 1 to start column 2, that is what happened for me and has for many others. Then when I went back to the tope of page 2 to start column 3, that was also an EYE OPENER as I began to write, because not only were 'what was affected in me coming out' on each name but so were my own defects of character.

However, all this is really just my experience and how it works for me and has for many I work with. I keep it simple. It sounds more complicated typing it out than it is actually just doing the step, lol

It is amazing to me how 'smoothly' my 4th steps have gone, by just writing not typing, a column at a time, a flow starts to happen, it all falls into place and a feeling of Peace and Serenity, even before completion started to happen the first time and every time since when 'more was revealed'.

Others will interpret and do as they see fit. I found for me it was great that my sponsor's sponsor had been one of the originals and this was how I was taught. So J M H O

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st, pg 64
In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry.
I repeat that is not in Column 1. See what I just typed in this post.

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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No sweetie, the way my sponsors did nd I see it also these 30 years as the cause (column 2) is where we start to figure out that the cause was really ours not theirs. ie When we start out working on column two especially the first time, we are writing 'blame' to the other person, but as we continue we see where the faults were our own, whether it was our response, lack of response, how we responded, etc

At least after I did my Column 1. Then went back to the top of page 1 to start column 2, that is what happened for me and has for many others. Then when I went back to the tope of page 2 to start column 3, that was also an EYE OPENER as I began to write, because not only were 'what was affected in me coming out' on each name but so were my own defects of character.

However, all this is really just my experience and how it works for me and has for many I work with. I keep it simple. It sounds more complicated typing it out than it is actually just doing the step, lol

It is amazing to me how 'smoothly' my 4th steps have gone, by just writing not typing, a column at a time, a flow starts to happen, it all falls into place and a feeling of Peace and Serenity, even before completion started to happen the first time and every time since when 'more was revealed'.

Others will interpret and do as they see fit. I found for me it was great that my sponsor's sponsor had been one of the originals and this was how I was taught. So J M H O


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st, pg 64
In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry.
I repeat that is not in Column 1. See what I just typed in this post.

Love and hugs,

The BB does say that we listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry.


These are the directions I find regarding resentments:


Column 1: ("I'm resentful at:")
"We listed people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry."


Column 2: ("The Cause:")
"We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were 'burned up.'"


Column 3: ("Affects my:")
"On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with?"


Column 4: (My part)
"Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other person's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight."


SIU
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Examples of People: My spouse, Dad, Mom, Uncle Jack, Sister Jill, Mr. Smith, Mrs. Grand, Jessica, John, Chris, Jamie, etc.

Examples of Institutions: My bank, my school, the church, the phone company, credit card companies, the IRS, the court system, the government, the zoo, the store down the street, etc.

Examples of principles: Honesty (like, if I haven't quite gotten the swing of it yet, and being "too honest" has gotten me into trouble, made me embarrassed,etc.); Sycophancy; "Woman's work"; "No sex before marriage"; "An eye for an eye"; "Turn the other cheek," etc.

I believe that "fancied or real" applies across the board -- what matters is that the related resentment is real to me. If if is, it may have the power to actually kill.

If I have made the decision of the 3rd step, and I take my HP with me to the 4th step, I trust that he will show me what I need to see -- where I have been selfish, self-seeking, dishonest, my fears/hidden agnosticism, my old ideas, my misconduct, etc. In taking stock, I start to shine a light into the darkness. I can begin to become aware of what I have been carrying, what I have believed, how I have been showing up in the lives of others, perhaps how spiritually ill I have really been. I move forward, finally able to enter into the awareness of some very important things that will serve me well on the way to the spiritual experience/spiritual awakening to come.
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Alcoholism is an obsession of the mind that condemns one to drink and an allergy of the body that condemns one to die. - Dr. William D. Silkworth

* Big Book quotes cited from the 1st edition
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