How are you supposed to do a 4th step???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
How are you supposed to do a 4th step???
When I was doing my 4th step I asked 4 different people how your supposed to do it, and I got 4 different answers. I did my 12 steps with a sponsor and have not yet sponsored anyone. However I do have a close friend in aa that has struggled with finding someone to help him with his 4th step, and has asked me for help.
I didn't want to turn him down, especially since he has helped me so much in the past, but I don't want to mislead him either. I plan on trying to help him through it, but at the same time I am going to tell him to continue to look for a sponsor and go through it again with him.
He's had some bad luck with his sponsors in the past. After he finished his third step with his first sponsor, he was told to wait 4 years (YES 4 YEARS!!) before he started on his 4th step
. His sponsors that followed also did some things that I think many of you would disagree with.
I was taught to do step 4 strait from the big book. But the big book is quite vauge on a lot of things, and is quite open to various interpitation.
I know you cant respond with a post that gives detailed instructions on how to do a 4th step, because it would be such a long description. But if any of you can give me a good reference to go by, that would be great. So far I have throughly studied the BB, 12 X 12, and the "Joe and Charlie" recordings on step 4.
Please let me know if you know of other resources that exsplain the 4th step.
I didn't want to turn him down, especially since he has helped me so much in the past, but I don't want to mislead him either. I plan on trying to help him through it, but at the same time I am going to tell him to continue to look for a sponsor and go through it again with him.
He's had some bad luck with his sponsors in the past. After he finished his third step with his first sponsor, he was told to wait 4 years (YES 4 YEARS!!) before he started on his 4th step
. His sponsors that followed also did some things that I think many of you would disagree with.I was taught to do step 4 strait from the big book. But the big book is quite vauge on a lot of things, and is quite open to various interpitation.
I know you cant respond with a post that gives detailed instructions on how to do a 4th step, because it would be such a long description. But if any of you can give me a good reference to go by, that would be great. So far I have throughly studied the BB, 12 X 12, and the "Joe and Charlie" recordings on step 4.
Please let me know if you know of other resources that exsplain the 4th step.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I followed the instructions in the Big Book given to me by my sponsor.We went over every line,and every word in step 4,making sure we was on the same page and that we understood each other first.Then I got to work.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hi Dune
Yea, I overcompllicated the 4th step... I worked with others at my home group, read the BB, 12x12, got some worksheets... All that... I was frustrated...
But then, as bballdad said, I worked it exactly like the book discussed.... I didn't think, I just did... The results were astonishing.... Lights started coming on...
So sit down, with paper and pencil, and fill in your columns, down, not across...
Joe and Charlie were pretty close... I hear people talk about a fourth column... For me, it was almost automatic, my part in it and all...
Happy Memorial Day!
Yea, I overcompllicated the 4th step... I worked with others at my home group, read the BB, 12x12, got some worksheets... All that... I was frustrated...
But then, as bballdad said, I worked it exactly like the book discussed.... I didn't think, I just did... The results were astonishing.... Lights started coming on...
So sit down, with paper and pencil, and fill in your columns, down, not across...
Joe and Charlie were pretty close... I hear people talk about a fourth column... For me, it was almost automatic, my part in it and all...
Happy Memorial Day!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by DUNE 
I was taught to do step 4 strait from the big book. But the big book is quite vauge on a lot of things, and is quite open to various interpitation
Originally Posted by BB 1st Ed
In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principle with who we were angry. We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self- esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tr ied to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tr ied to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white.
If you PM me, I can send you the Fellowship of the Spirit worksheets, which is just excerpted from the BB.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
I also did mine straight from the Big Book. I encourage anyone getting ready to do a 4th Step to consider doing it as was described by those that came up with the original Steps as they knew what worked for them and that is how they wrote it in the Big Book.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,916
I was at an AA meeting yesterday and the discussion was how to do a 4th step. The consensus was just do what the Big Book says, don't overcomplicate it with with a bunch of questionaires and work books you find on line.
The Joe and Charlie tapes also have a great discussion about how to do a 4th step.
The Joe and Charlie tapes also have a great discussion about how to do a 4th step.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Mark75
... I hear people talk about a fourth column... For me, it was almost automatic, my part in it and all...
Where were we to blame? - Resentment list.
We asked ourselves why we had them - Fears list.
Where were we at fault? - Harms list.
What should we have done instead? - Sex Conduct list.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by DUNE
When I was doing my 4th step I asked 4 different people how your supposed to do it, and I got 4 different answers.
Please let me know if you know of other resources that exsplain the 4th step.
http://www.aabacktobasics.org/Recove...%203-11-08.doc
Or you could do it like they did it back in the old days, "In those days we really took each other's inventories firmly and often" (from the The Vicious Cycle). However, they were a close bunch and called each other out. There was only about twelve of them in all of NYC.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
Thank you every for your replys, I greatly apreciate all of them. 
Even though I do 10 and 11 daily, going back to my notes, colums, and scribbles that I kept from my original forth step, and then reading everything you guys wrote down, made me remember to not to try to understand the process so much, and to just do it.
Helping someone else with step 4, is not something I am compfortable with. I plan on not answering any questions with my own oppininated ideas, but instead just directing my friend directly to the directions in the big book. If he cant come up with a answer to a question like "Where am I to blame?", I'm just going to tell him to think about it for a while. If he still doesn't know, I'm just going to suggest that he speak with his next sponsor about it. Does that sound like what I should do?
I don't know if I'll really be of much help, but my biggest fear is misleading someone with my own personal exspirience of doing this step.
If any of you have any further input on this, I would gladly like to hear it.
Dune
Even though I do 10 and 11 daily, going back to my notes, colums, and scribbles that I kept from my original forth step, and then reading everything you guys wrote down, made me remember to not to try to understand the process so much, and to just do it. Helping someone else with step 4, is not something I am compfortable with. I plan on not answering any questions with my own oppininated ideas, but instead just directing my friend directly to the directions in the big book. If he cant come up with a answer to a question like "Where am I to blame?", I'm just going to tell him to think about it for a while. If he still doesn't know, I'm just going to suggest that he speak with his next sponsor about it. Does that sound like what I should do?
I don't know if I'll really be of much help, but my biggest fear is misleading someone with my own personal exspirience of doing this step.
If any of you have any further input on this, I would gladly like to hear it.
Dune
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
My sponsor guided me on my first 4th step, just as she had done hers, EXACTLY as outlined in the BB. My additional 4th and 5th steps ("MORE WILL BE REVEALED") as time has gone on have also been done that way, on the 'new' information/memory that comes up.
I have a sponsee right now that is 8 years into recovery and is doing her second 4th step, her first the way it is outlined int he BB. She is almost done, and is amazed at how much simpler this one is than the one her first sponsor had her do, lol
I too say used the BB.
Love and hugs,
I have a sponsee right now that is 8 years into recovery and is doing her second 4th step, her first the way it is outlined int he BB. She is almost done, and is amazed at how much simpler this one is than the one her first sponsor had her do, lol
I too say used the BB.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
Here is some more information from one of our posters. nandm, does a wonderful job laying out the 4th step from the BB.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...step-four.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...step-four.html
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 645
DUNE: Helping someone else with step 4, is not something I am comfortable with. I plan on not answering any questions with my own opionated ideas, but instead just directing my friend directly to the directions in the big book. If he can't come up with a answer to a question like "Where am I to blame?", I'm just going to tell him to think about it for a while. If he still doesn't know, I'm just going to suggest that he speak with his next sponsor about it. Does that sound like what I should do?
Actually, Dune what helped me most were specific examples from my sponsor's own life experiences. Granted, my sponsor worked the steps directly from the Big Book and not from some other guide, manual, resource or whatever. If my sponsor had ideas as to where I might have been to blame (i.e., my part of a resentment), these were suggested to me -- not as my definitive answer -- but as options that I might consider.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with saying: this is an example of a resentment I had, this is the nature of that resentment, this is what in me was affected, this is what I wrote for the resentment turn-around.
Here is a fear I had, this is how self-reliance failed me, here are how trust and reliance upon God can help me overcome that fear, here are some examples of God affirmations that I wrote about fear.
This is an example of something I listed on sex conduct conduct inventory. This is who I hurt. This is where and how I was selfish, dishonest or inconsiderate. I unjustifiably aroused jealousy, suspicion or bitterness, and this is how I did that. Here is where I was at fault. Here is what I should have done differently.
Specific examples from my sponsor's own life helped me greatly in completing my own inventory. Don't pawn things off to the next sponsor. If you worked your steps by the Big Book and have had a spiritual awakening as a result, you have a message to share.
Do you pray as you work with your sponsee? If not, I would strongly encourage you to ask for guidance and direction from your own Higher Power as to what to say, how to say it, what you might share that would be helpful, etc.
Ask what you can do for the man (or woman) who still suffers. The answers will come if your own house is in order. That is a promise from the Big Book.
Susan
Actually, Dune what helped me most were specific examples from my sponsor's own life experiences. Granted, my sponsor worked the steps directly from the Big Book and not from some other guide, manual, resource or whatever. If my sponsor had ideas as to where I might have been to blame (i.e., my part of a resentment), these were suggested to me -- not as my definitive answer -- but as options that I might consider.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with saying: this is an example of a resentment I had, this is the nature of that resentment, this is what in me was affected, this is what I wrote for the resentment turn-around.
Here is a fear I had, this is how self-reliance failed me, here are how trust and reliance upon God can help me overcome that fear, here are some examples of God affirmations that I wrote about fear.
This is an example of something I listed on sex conduct conduct inventory. This is who I hurt. This is where and how I was selfish, dishonest or inconsiderate. I unjustifiably aroused jealousy, suspicion or bitterness, and this is how I did that. Here is where I was at fault. Here is what I should have done differently.
Specific examples from my sponsor's own life helped me greatly in completing my own inventory. Don't pawn things off to the next sponsor. If you worked your steps by the Big Book and have had a spiritual awakening as a result, you have a message to share.
Do you pray as you work with your sponsee? If not, I would strongly encourage you to ask for guidance and direction from your own Higher Power as to what to say, how to say it, what you might share that would be helpful, etc.
Ask what you can do for the man (or woman) who still suffers. The answers will come if your own house is in order. That is a promise from the Big Book.
Susan
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
if you have a couple hours do devote to finding out for yourself....... give these talks a listen from XA Speakers.....
1. Joe and Charlie cover the basics VERY well and VERY clearly. They're a must-listen for someone doing it their first time:
a. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
b. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
c. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
2. For something a bit more in depth and with a lot more examples and description, Mark H and Dave F's talks at the Fellowship of the Spirit "lectures" did wonders for me. They're like the step-study by Joe and Charlie above......only (IMO) much deeper and more rewarding.
a. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
b. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
c. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
d. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
(that last one finishes up step 4 and also has part of the open talk that the speaker invited that evening gave. If you like the talk and want to hear the end of it, it's available here: XA-Speakers - The lights are on! ).
That's 8 hours of talks to listen to........8 hours of hard core direction, guidance and advice. I can just about guarantee you'll be SUPER glad you listened to them and you'll probably want to do another 4th step yourself ASAP....... I sure did. These talks were like game-changers for the path of sobriety I was on.
1. Joe and Charlie cover the basics VERY well and VERY clearly. They're a must-listen for someone doing it their first time:
a. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
b. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
c. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
2. For something a bit more in depth and with a lot more examples and description, Mark H and Dave F's talks at the Fellowship of the Spirit "lectures" did wonders for me. They're like the step-study by Joe and Charlie above......only (IMO) much deeper and more rewarding.
a. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
b. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
c. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
d. XA-Speakers - The lights are on!
(that last one finishes up step 4 and also has part of the open talk that the speaker invited that evening gave. If you like the talk and want to hear the end of it, it's available here: XA-Speakers - The lights are on! ).
That's 8 hours of talks to listen to........8 hours of hard core direction, guidance and advice. I can just about guarantee you'll be SUPER glad you listened to them and you'll probably want to do another 4th step yourself ASAP....... I sure did. These talks were like game-changers for the path of sobriety I was on.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
I prefer the format from the Big Book. My first was done that way. I've also done them that way as I take sponsees through it to provide examples, I use current inventory and actually write it out as we speak.
My sponsor had me check out the 12 x 12 questions last year and I went through and answered them all, it was quite effective too.
Joe and Charlie ? Somebody had a worksheet out there in PDF or .DOC format that's very convenient. I actually walked my mom through that a few months ago - I was amazed at how similar our inventories were.
I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a tremendous experience for the both of us and she doesn't even drink. But she had some resentment she couldn't shake. Until then.
Powerful tool.
My sponsor had me check out the 12 x 12 questions last year and I went through and answered them all, it was quite effective too.
Joe and Charlie ? Somebody had a worksheet out there in PDF or .DOC format that's very convenient. I actually walked my mom through that a few months ago - I was amazed at how similar our inventories were.
I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a tremendous experience for the both of us and she doesn't even drink. But she had some resentment she couldn't shake. Until then.Powerful tool.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
You guys are awsome!!!! Thanks for all the info and sugestions. The responce I get here is like 10X better then at a AA meeting. Probably because 229 people read the question. And a lot of you seem like you reallly know what your talking about. Not just going off of what you hear at meetings, but solid info, backed up from stuff in the BB.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Darklight
Everyone does it differently.
That's lots of variations on those specifics, but the closer I stay to those directions, the closer my results are to their results. It's the baking a cake analogy.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
I like the Big Book method, it's concise and to the point. I've often joked that using that format during the day while practicing the 10th Step, I can almost visualize the columnar layout provided in the book as if I had a HUD (Heads Up Display) that pilots and The Terminator have. lol
That being said, I think the only wrong way to do a fourth, is to - not do a fourth.
That being said, I think the only wrong way to do a fourth, is to - not do a fourth.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San francisco,ca
Posts: 112
I personaly think that if someone deviates from the BB they will probably get different results. Maybe better, maybe worse.
But teaching it to someone in a way that is not specific to the instructions outlined in the BB is not the way I think it should be done. And a lot of the answers I was getting from people in AA meetings, as to how to do a 4th step, were deviations from the original instructions.
I also hear a lot of people say things like "I teach others the way I was taught". Well what if he was taught the wrong way? Or if his way only worked for him?
After reading all the responces to my original question. It seems like most people feel that the instructions in the BB should be folowed exactly how they were written.
I kind of expected that. But I'm still trying to work out all the specifics of the instructions in the BB. A lot of those specifics are open to interpitation, which is one thing that I'm seeing a lot of disagreement on.
One example is the listing of "principles" in column one. What exactly are principles. I started another thred on this so we don't have to get into that here. But when I look at what people wrote, well there's obvious differences but no one is really wrong because the BB doesn't really get into a example of principles being a resentment, or even what Principles as a resentment really are.
Thanks though for your input on this issue.
But teaching it to someone in a way that is not specific to the instructions outlined in the BB is not the way I think it should be done. And a lot of the answers I was getting from people in AA meetings, as to how to do a 4th step, were deviations from the original instructions.
I also hear a lot of people say things like "I teach others the way I was taught". Well what if he was taught the wrong way? Or if his way only worked for him?
After reading all the responces to my original question. It seems like most people feel that the instructions in the BB should be folowed exactly how they were written.
I kind of expected that. But I'm still trying to work out all the specifics of the instructions in the BB. A lot of those specifics are open to interpitation, which is one thing that I'm seeing a lot of disagreement on.
One example is the listing of "principles" in column one. What exactly are principles. I started another thred on this so we don't have to get into that here. But when I look at what people wrote, well there's obvious differences but no one is really wrong because the BB doesn't really get into a example of principles being a resentment, or even what Principles as a resentment really are.
Thanks though for your input on this issue.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
