Who Knows AA History? - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

StillInTheDumps · 11-13-2003, 07:37 AM

Hi, all,

Have not been to the boards in a while.

I have a question which an "oldtimer", "longtimer", probably has the answer to.

The AA BigBook began being written by Bill W and the first 40 recovering alcoholics.
Towards completion the AA BigBook (1st edition) had the input of the first 100 recovering alcoholics.
I have been listening to the "Joe and Charlie" BigBook Study on Audio. On the tapes they refer to pages in the 1st and 2nd editions (possibly 3rd).

Here is my question, I understand that "Joe and Charlie" are somewhat famous in the program. Their message is unbelievably good and easy to understand (for me)..........Were Joe and Charlie among the first 40 or 100 alcoholics or did they come along later?

Just curious on the history of Joe and Charlie since their tapes are inspiring to me.

Have a great 24 (hours)

**CarolD** · 11-13-2003, 11:21 AM

No Joe and Charlie are not AA pioneeers.

They are alive and active AA members...as far as I know.

Good to see you again...

Music · 11-13-2003, 12:11 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, but except for the forwards in each edition, the first 164 pages have not been changed since the Big Book went into print. However, if anyone has ever seen a transcript of the original Big Book, they can attest to the fact that a lot of verbage was changed so as not to be interpreted as being "too strong" or "telling" instead of suggesting. They knew back then that most drunks are over-sensitive...Ha!
Joe and Charlie are good though and they explain in some detail the physical differences between alkies and non-alkies. Not that it matters much to me. I'm a "real" alcoholic.

StillInTheDumps · 11-13-2003, 01:23 PM

To the best of my knowledge. Editions 1 to 3 are the same with the following exceptions. Edition 1, Dr.Silkworth refused to have his name published in the Bbook, edition 2, he wanted his name added. Between 1 and 3 Bill's Story and the Doctor's Opinion have moved around the Bbook as chapters and/or appendix. The stories in the back are different in Editions 1 2 3 and 4.
There is a new AA World Service Approved book called "Courage, Strength and Wisdom" (I think) and they include the stories of editions 1 2 3.
I'm not all sure how much has changed in the 4th edition.

Adamus · 11-13-2003, 02:48 PM

I think that book is titled "Experience, Strength, and Hope."

StillInTheDumps · 11-13-2003, 03:05 PM

Adamus,

I mixed up the name of that book. My memory is not the best. I try not to mislead anyone. I believe you are correct.
"Experience, Strength and Hope" -- stories from the back of AA BigBook Editions 1, 2 and 3. I have read them in the 4th edition which are also different from the first 3.

**CarolD** · 11-13-2003, 03:11 PM

For some AA history abd snips from the book ESH...

http://www.aahistory.com/index.html

StillInTheDumps · 11-17-2003, 08:53 AM

I visited that sight and found a large list of AA people.

**CarolD** · 11-17-2003, 11:18 AM

I must have put up the wrong URL Still...Sorry!

Oh Well...I hope you used the Sobriety Counter while there.

Jon · 11-17-2003, 07:57 PM

While THERE?

What about while HERE????

LOL

http://www.soberrecovery.com/sobertime.html

NoMoBeer · 11-17-2003, 10:01 PM

I'm no oldtimer, but a BIG Joe and Charlie fan!

Charlie P. and Joe McQ. met at a speakers meeting way back, and both found each other to have an uncanny interest in the BB. They used to drive some 250+ miles to each others' homes to study and learn the BB. They began small study groups and they somehow caught on. Joe McQ, the original "Joe" had to stop travelling, and was replaced with Joe McC, a follower of the original pair from the beginning.

The most recent recording I have seen out there is from May 2003 in Boca Raton, FL. I am hoping to see them live some day!

Oh, and last time I was in the AA Giftshop

, I came across a Hazleden book called "A program for you." No authors on the cover, but it is almost identical to Joe and Charlie's presentation, the gal who runs the shop said it is by Joe and Charlie, so you can read the same material too!

--BTW, my sponsor is a big Joe and Charlie fan too, if you couldn't guess!!!

Ken

Patsyd1 · 11-18-2003, 04:52 AM

Hi Stillinthedumps,

The original Joe and Charlie met at their wives "Alanon Convention"...... I believe Charlie was the AA speaker at that Alanon Convention.

I know on my "Joe and Charlie" tapes from 1988, Charlie speaks of their meeting ( he and the original Joe) and how they went off to a back room at this Alanon Convention and discovered that they each had this passion for the Big Book, and they did travel hundreds of miles to get together.

I attended a Joe and Charlie Big Book Step Study as part of the "Springtime In The Ozarks" AA convention in April of 2002, and actually got to meet and speak with Charlie

That was a thrill for me. It wasn't the original Joe, for health reasons the original Joe McQ isn't traveling with Charlie now...... and Joe McC did take his place, and what a wonderful time was had by all.

When I was about 1 year sober my sponsor had a whole set of Joe and Charlie tapes and had a regular meeting at her home just using these tapes.

Joe and Charlie share at the beginning of each of the series of tapes that they do "that if anything they say can not be reconciled in the Big Book....then simply discard it"

I love Joe and Charlie, for their intense passion of the Big Book, and the simple way in which they break it down so it can be understood by people like me. LOL

I am so grateful that I got to attend their Big Book Study in Arkansas, they keep it real simple

Love,
Patsy

11-13-2003, 07:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
StillInTheDumps Paused Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Thin Ice Posts: 96	Who Knows AA History? Hi, all, Have not been to the boards in a while. I have a question which an "oldtimer", "longtimer", probably has the answer to. The AA BigBook began being written by Bill W and the first 40 recovering alcoholics. Towards completion the AA BigBook (1st edition) had the input of the first 100 recovering alcoholics. I have been listening to the "Joe and Charlie" BigBook Study on Audio. On the tapes they refer to pages in the 1st and 2nd editions (possibly 3rd). Here is my question, I understand that "Joe and Charlie" are somewhat famous in the program. Their message is unbelievably good and easy to understand (for me)..........Were Joe and Charlie among the first 40 or 100 alcoholics or did they come along later? Just curious on the history of Joe and Charlie since their tapes are inspiring to me. Have a great 24 (hours)

11-13-2003, 11:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
CarolD Forum Leader Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Serene In Dixie Posts: 34,835	Hi Still No Joe and Charlie are not AA pioneeers. They are alive and active AA members...as far as I know. Good to see you again... __________________ Each Day Sober Is A Victory!! Joy In AA Recovery!

11-13-2003, 12:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
Music Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Zion, Illinois Posts: 2,529	Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, but except for the forwards in each edition, the first 164 pages have not been changed since the Big Book went into print. However, if anyone has ever seen a transcript of the original Big Book, they can attest to the fact that a lot of verbage was changed so as not to be interpreted as being "too strong" or "telling" instead of suggesting. They knew back then that most drunks are over-sensitive...Ha! Joe and Charlie are good though and they explain in some detail the physical differences between alkies and non-alkies. Not that it matters much to me. I'm a "real" alcoholic. __________________

11-13-2003, 01:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
StillInTheDumps Paused Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Thin Ice Posts: 96	AA BB Editions To the best of my knowledge. Editions 1 to 3 are the same with the following exceptions. Edition 1, Dr.Silkworth refused to have his name published in the Bbook, edition 2, he wanted his name added. Between 1 and 3 Bill's Story and the Doctor's Opinion have moved around the Bbook as chapters and/or appendix. The stories in the back are different in Editions 1 2 3 and 4. There is a new AA World Service Approved book called "Courage, Strength and Wisdom" (I think) and they include the stories of editions 1 2 3. I'm not all sure how much has changed in the 4th edition.

11-13-2003, 03:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
CarolD Forum Leader Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Serene In Dixie Posts: 34,835	For some AA history abd snips from the book ESH... http://www.aahistory.com/index.html __________________ Each Day Sober Is A Victory!! Joy In AA Recovery!

11-13-2003, 02:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Adamus Paused Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 17	I think that book is titled "Experience, Strength, and Hope."

11-13-2003, 03:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
StillInTheDumps Paused Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Thin Ice Posts: 96	Adamus, I mixed up the name of that book. My memory is not the best. I try not to mislead anyone. I believe you are correct. "Experience, Strength and Hope" -- stories from the back of AA BigBook Editions 1, 2 and 3. I have read them in the 4th edition which are also different from the first 3.

11-17-2003, 08:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
StillInTheDumps Paused Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Thin Ice Posts: 96	Thanks CarolD I visited that sight and found a large list of AA people.

11-17-2003, 11:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
CarolD Forum Leader Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Serene In Dixie Posts: 34,835	I must have put up the wrong URL Still...Sorry! Oh Well...I hope you used the Sobriety Counter while there. __________________ Each Day Sober Is A Victory!! Joy In AA Recovery!

11-17-2003, 07:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jon But Very, Very Bruisable... Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Palm Springs, Ca. Posts: 548	While THERE? What about while HERE???? LOL http://www.soberrecovery.com/sobertime.html __________________ Have A Great 24 -jon

11-17-2003, 10:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
NoMoBeer Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 872	Joe and Charlie I'm no oldtimer, but a BIG Joe and Charlie fan! Charlie P. and Joe McQ. met at a speakers meeting way back, and both found each other to have an uncanny interest in the BB. They used to drive some 250+ miles to each others' homes to study and learn the BB. They began small study groups and they somehow caught on. Joe McQ, the original "Joe" had to stop travelling, and was replaced with Joe McC, a follower of the original pair from the beginning. The most recent recording I have seen out there is from May 2003 in Boca Raton, FL. I am hoping to see them live some day! Oh, and last time I was in the AA Giftshop , I came across a Hazleden book called "A program for you." No authors on the cover, but it is almost identical to Joe and Charlie's presentation, the gal who runs the shop said it is by Joe and Charlie, so you can read the same material too! --BTW, my sponsor is a big Joe and Charlie fan too, if you couldn't guess!!! Ken __________________ "Run with endurance the race God has set out before you..." -- Hebrews 12

11-18-2003, 04:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
Patsyd1 Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 710	Hi Stillinthedumps, The original Joe and Charlie met at their wives "Alanon Convention"...... I believe Charlie was the AA speaker at that Alanon Convention. I know on my "Joe and Charlie" tapes from 1988, Charlie speaks of their meeting ( he and the original Joe) and how they went off to a back room at this Alanon Convention and discovered that they each had this passion for the Big Book, and they did travel hundreds of miles to get together. I attended a Joe and Charlie Big Book Step Study as part of the "Springtime In The Ozarks" AA convention in April of 2002, and actually got to meet and speak with Charlie That was a thrill for me. It wasn't the original Joe, for health reasons the original Joe McQ isn't traveling with Charlie now...... and Joe McC did take his place, and what a wonderful time was had by all. When I was about 1 year sober my sponsor had a whole set of Joe and Charlie tapes and had a regular meeting at her home just using these tapes. Joe and Charlie share at the beginning of each of the series of tapes that they do "that if anything they say can not be reconciled in the Big Book....then simply discard it" I love Joe and Charlie, for their intense passion of the Big Book, and the simple way in which they break it down so it can be understood by people like me. LOL I am so grateful that I got to attend their Big Book Study in Arkansas, they keep it real simple Love, Patsy

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