Selfish and Self-Seeking
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: chico, ca
Posts: 321
I think selfish is when it's all about me. Self seeking is when I want what I want when I want it, like in motives. When I started to respond to this it sounded a lot easier than when I started to answer it. Tell me if you get a more definative answer.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
To me... Selfish is, hmm, well it just is... Almost but not quite emotion. Self seeking is more conscious, or pre-meditated. More organized, self seeking is a series of thoughts or action to get what one wants. This may be a feeling of competitiveness over another to get what is desired for self.
My 2 cents
My 2 cents
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
who cares.....they both gotta go...lol....
i guess for me selfish is an immediate thought...almost my first thought is for my benefit..
self seeking.......seeking to manipulate a situation for your own gain and at the expense of others....my favourite...the schemer...the manipulator...to fiddle an outcome...
i guess for me selfish is an immediate thought...almost my first thought is for my benefit..
self seeking.......seeking to manipulate a situation for your own gain and at the expense of others....my favourite...the schemer...the manipulator...to fiddle an outcome...
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Selfish is when it's all about me--my problems, my achievements, my ideas and convictions. To hell with you and your opinions and life. I'm concerned with my life, ideas, convictions and needs only.
Self-seeking is artificially creating a sense of ease and comfort by acting to fill a void. It can include gossip, pornography, food, lust, sympathy, sex, gambling, shopping, getting attention (good or bad), fishing for compliments, anger, resentments, etc. Indulgence for the sake of emotional satisfaction or escape.
Self-seeking is artificially creating a sense of ease and comfort by acting to fill a void. It can include gossip, pornography, food, lust, sympathy, sex, gambling, shopping, getting attention (good or bad), fishing for compliments, anger, resentments, etc. Indulgence for the sake of emotional satisfaction or escape.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Self seeking is a verb. We are actively prusuing a life that is all about us, no matter what the cost and no matter who we hurt.
Selfishness may begin and end in between my ears. With the 12 steps selfishness never has to manifest itself in self-seeking. Selfishness in and of itself is not bad. It is the way it manifests in our lives.
Think about it- We have heard people say that selfishness is when it's all about me--my problems, my achievements, my ideas and convictions.
What is wrong with that part of Pagekeepers post?
My problem- alcoholism, self, anger, taxes, left handed????
My achievements- Finding AA and a way of life
My ideas- I need God now!
My conviction- I can only keep this gift if I give it away. That is selfishness. In western culture we tend to try to deny our true selves. We are selfish!
When we act on it in ways that we sometimes do we run the risk of being in collision with the world around us.
Selfishness may begin and end in between my ears. With the 12 steps selfishness never has to manifest itself in self-seeking. Selfishness in and of itself is not bad. It is the way it manifests in our lives.
Think about it- We have heard people say that selfishness is when it's all about me--my problems, my achievements, my ideas and convictions.
What is wrong with that part of Pagekeepers post?
My problem- alcoholism, self, anger, taxes, left handed????
My achievements- Finding AA and a way of life
My ideas- I need God now!
My conviction- I can only keep this gift if I give it away. That is selfishness. In western culture we tend to try to deny our true selves. We are selfish!
When we act on it in ways that we sometimes do we run the risk of being in collision with the world around us.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
For me, selfish is when I'm consumed with self and won't help anyone else (whether that 'serves' me or not) Self Seeking is when I'm only doing/acting in a way that *serves* me...i.e. you can be selfish (although not self seeking) but self seeking is almost always coupled with selfishness. Just my view!
Cathy31
x
Cathy31
x
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
I think both can be the same where we are seeking to serve the needs of our "self".
But if I have been selfish it has been obvious - in that I have a disregard for anyone else as I seeking out to serve my self's needs.
When I have been self-seeking it has been less obvious, and I don't appear selfish. I can be thoughtful, considerate and kind and yet I am still seeking to serve my self's needs.
I want love, attention, glory, praise etc and I will manipulate and people-please those around me in a way that looks like I care about them when all I really care about is the end result of making me feel better.
I think this line from p61 sums up a lot of my old behaviour
But if I have been selfish it has been obvious - in that I have a disregard for anyone else as I seeking out to serve my self's needs.
When I have been self-seeking it has been less obvious, and I don't appear selfish. I can be thoughtful, considerate and kind and yet I am still seeking to serve my self's needs.
I want love, attention, glory, praise etc and I will manipulate and people-please those around me in a way that looks like I care about them when all I really care about is the end result of making me feel better.
I think this line from p61 sums up a lot of my old behaviour
Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind?
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Expound-
Those who look out for their own interests are considered selfish.
What if your own interest is to help your brother or sister? Why does is it give a feeling like no other? If I am helping you because "I" get something out of it, by definition I am acting selfishly.
It is a matter of alignment, we align our will and our self-interests follow suit. Greed dissipates because it isn't natural. We are communal creatures, we crave the company of others. Therefore we are acting selfishly when we extend a hand to another in friendship. Strength in numbers????? Strength for who????
Me....
Those who look out for their own interests are considered selfish.
What if your own interest is to help your brother or sister? Why does is it give a feeling like no other? If I am helping you because "I" get something out of it, by definition I am acting selfishly.
It is a matter of alignment, we align our will and our self-interests follow suit. Greed dissipates because it isn't natural. We are communal creatures, we crave the company of others. Therefore we are acting selfishly when we extend a hand to another in friendship. Strength in numbers????? Strength for who????
Me....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by navysteve 
Think about it- We have heard people say that selfishness is when it's all about me--my problems, my achievements, my ideas and convictions.
What is wrong with that part of Pagekeepers post?
My problem- alcoholism, self, anger, taxes, left handed????
My achievements- Finding AA and a way of life
My ideas- I need God now!
My conviction- I can only keep this gift if I give it away. That is selfishness. In western culture we tend to try to deny our true selves. We are selfish!
When we act on it in ways that we sometimes do we run the risk of being in collision with the world around us.
What is wrong with that part of Pagekeepers post?
My problem- alcoholism, self, anger, taxes, left handed????
My achievements- Finding AA and a way of life
My ideas- I need God now!
My conviction- I can only keep this gift if I give it away. That is selfishness. In western culture we tend to try to deny our true selves. We are selfish!
When we act on it in ways that we sometimes do we run the risk of being in collision with the world around us.
I hear people in the rooms claim AA is a selfish program. They are certainly entitled to their view, but I disagree.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Lets not distort and confuse the definitions of selfishness with the practice of altruism. Candy coating selfishness wishing it to be more "aligned" with a respective personal message is deceptive and unworthy within a fellowship of alcoholics.
Selfishness is exactly what it is: putting ourselves before others and nothing about that can be twisted to mean anything other than being selfish without being deceptive about it.
My hand given in friendship is not from a selfish invitation from me to another. Friendships are above petty selfish ideations and such experiences unless they are co-dependant.
Robby
Selfishness is exactly what it is: putting ourselves before others and nothing about that can be twisted to mean anything other than being selfish without being deceptive about it.
My hand given in friendship is not from a selfish invitation from me to another. Friendships are above petty selfish ideations and such experiences unless they are co-dependant.
Robby
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by Pagekeeper
I hear people in the rooms claim AA is a selfish program. They are certainly entitled to their view, but I disagree.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
All I was saying folks was that selfishness is at the root of the problem. It is not the problem. It, like almost everything else in our lives is a natural part of human existence. Here is a person who is more qualified than us to debate what selfishness is:
Frans de Waal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(not that wikipedia is at all accurate but you can read up on his writings and listen to a viewpoint that may not be in line with what you hear in AA on this topic).
And here is what Bill said about it:
A Selfish Program?
A Reading on
"A Selfish Program?"
I can see why you are disturbed to hear some A.A. speakers say, "A.A. is a selfish program." The word 'selfish' ordinarily implies that one is acquisitive, demanding, and thoughtless of the welfare of others.
Of course, the A.A. way of life does not at all imply such undesirable traits.
What do these speakers mean? Well, any theologian will tell you that the salvation of his own soul is the highest vocation that a man can have.
Without salvation-however we may define this-he will have little or nothing. For us of A.A., there is even more urgency.
If we cannot or will not achieve sobriety, then we become truly lost, right in the here and now.
We are of no value to anyone, including ourselves, until we find salvation from alcohol. Therefore, our own recovery and spiritual growth have to come first-a right and necessary kind of self-concern.
From As Bill Sees It
So, the man who penned the phrase selfishness- self centerdness- that we think is the root of the problem also seems to have identified a difference.
Trying to eradicate selfishness and labeling the thought/emotion/whatever you call it as "the problem" is simply not true in my opinion. Notice I did not say AA is a selfish program (different topic). I was just elaborating on my view of selfish and self seeking.
I would suggest that if helping others did not help me, why would I help them? Sorry, I am not that noble, if I received nothing out of the deal I would move to an island. The cruelest torture done to any person has been to isolate them. Every action has been spawned by a selfish thought. The direction it goes depends on the personal relationship with the spiritual beliefs of the person.
Frans de Waal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(not that wikipedia is at all accurate but you can read up on his writings and listen to a viewpoint that may not be in line with what you hear in AA on this topic).
And here is what Bill said about it:
A Selfish Program?
A Reading on
"A Selfish Program?"
I can see why you are disturbed to hear some A.A. speakers say, "A.A. is a selfish program." The word 'selfish' ordinarily implies that one is acquisitive, demanding, and thoughtless of the welfare of others.
Of course, the A.A. way of life does not at all imply such undesirable traits.
What do these speakers mean? Well, any theologian will tell you that the salvation of his own soul is the highest vocation that a man can have.
Without salvation-however we may define this-he will have little or nothing. For us of A.A., there is even more urgency.
If we cannot or will not achieve sobriety, then we become truly lost, right in the here and now.
We are of no value to anyone, including ourselves, until we find salvation from alcohol. Therefore, our own recovery and spiritual growth have to come first-a right and necessary kind of self-concern.
From As Bill Sees It
So, the man who penned the phrase selfishness- self centerdness- that we think is the root of the problem also seems to have identified a difference.
Trying to eradicate selfishness and labeling the thought/emotion/whatever you call it as "the problem" is simply not true in my opinion. Notice I did not say AA is a selfish program (different topic). I was just elaborating on my view of selfish and self seeking.
I would suggest that if helping others did not help me, why would I help them? Sorry, I am not that noble, if I received nothing out of the deal I would move to an island. The cruelest torture done to any person has been to isolate them. Every action has been spawned by a selfish thought. The direction it goes depends on the personal relationship with the spiritual beliefs of the person.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Yeah, saying our sobriety comes first [which i agree with of course] does not translate into being "selfish"
I think Bill is sharing his understanding of why some say its a selfish program, i dont think Bill is saying de facto it is a selfish program, merely that some choose to express it as a selfish program to keep it simple. Its the same kind of difficulty that arises when we say alcoholism is an illness or a disease. Or not. Sometimes simplifying things is not always the best outcome when dealing with strict definitions. Keeping things simple does not always do justice to defining understandings among fellowships of men and women especially when some of them are drinking!
Rob
I think Bill is sharing his understanding of why some say its a selfish program, i dont think Bill is saying de facto it is a selfish program, merely that some choose to express it as a selfish program to keep it simple. Its the same kind of difficulty that arises when we say alcoholism is an illness or a disease. Or not. Sometimes simplifying things is not always the best outcome when dealing with strict definitions. Keeping things simple does not always do justice to defining understandings among fellowships of men and women especially when some of them are drinking!
Rob
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
