another amend comes up

[yeahgr8]

So i am going to bed the other night and suddenly get up and start searching for an old girlfriend from 21 years ago, i was 17 at the time and she was 21.

I had met her a couple of years after we finished and she had a baby, said it was mine, i didn't believe her. I went round her house with a friend, can't remember why, and she showed me the baby, my friend held her i didn't.

Then about 4 years later i was out shopping and she comes up to me with this little girl and says this is your father, then i told her you wouldn't be interested but she wanted to see her father...i just shrugged my shoulders and she said for the girl to go back to the car and started shouting at me so i walked off. I forgot to add that about a year before she had gone round my mothers and showed her a picture, my mother said the girl looked nothing like me and she just wanted money.

Then when i was 26 the ex came into an office i was working in and said how great i looked and why did she ever let me go so i was keen to get rid of her, she wouldn't leave without my mobile number and so i gave it to her, she text me saying that she wasn't interested in getting back with me but i should see my daughter so i texted f***ing leave me alone and destroyed the sim card.

Then at 30 i wondered about all this and asked my mother who said the girl probably wasn't mine and did i want to get involved with that woman again.

I remember saying drunk in the bars in mid thirties that i might have a daughter and mentioned it to another ex, never did anything more to find out.

So here it is the other night at 6am me looking at her facebook profile, took ages to find and found siblings and there was a girl there who looked a little like me, not too much which is good for her, so i feel like crap. In the end i sent a message via facebook to the MOTHER (not the daughter, i am not insane anymore) and said to her do you remember me if so can you email me on this address, probably best not to add me as a friend. This was a few days ago and judging by her activity she doesn't go on facebook that often so will wait.

So then off my mind wanders about meeting this girl and everything being just fine and dandy. and wouldn't it be so cool having a daughter (hasn't even been confirmed yet) then this all turns to sadness of course and if she is then that's 20 years wasted...then i start dwelling on the walking away from her at the supermarket bit above and thinking what sort of piece of **** does that to a kid, trying to think did i know, am i BS'ing myself here?

I rang my sponsor and he said to do what i was going to do anyway and, by then, all the AA 'training' had kicked in and i realised that this is not about me and what i want but about them, i owe amends and that is what i am doing. I am not causing any harm by asking the mother the appropriate response to this situation, i.e. if she is my daughter then it is up to you if you tell her but here are my details...at the end of the day all i am is her biological father, if at all, not her Dad...never been anywhere near her!

So today i started work and was so sad, really heartbroken actually which is a new feeling for me...i wished i would just die, then started to think you know suicidde is still an option, but i won't do anything stupid like that...i can't anymore to be fair after learning what i know now about God etc?! and i don't want to really.

I got home and rang my ex, last one, who i am strill kind of friends with, said i needed a womans point of view on this and got it, she is a good friend and was happy to talk about it...i said i know what my sponsor is going to say i want to hear it from a non AA person now, hehe, she is pretty sane and mature too and said the samee thing as i knew she would. I asked her do you think it would have been better if i was out of her life totally or in and out of it, she said maybe if you had known her you wouldn't have got so bad, i said nope that wouldn't have stopped me so she said that it was better that i was never part of her life.

The person in am now wouldn't have reacted this way over years and would love to be reading a bed time story to a little girl, in fact i wouldn't let her go ever...isn't that ironic!

So i'll leave it in God's hands now and have accepted the situation, i do my bit and that's all i can do...i she is my daughter hopefully i can provide a bit of closure for them, if it takes a spit in my face then that's grea if she wanted to get to know me then even better, if she's not mine then that's will have to be too...unlikely the last one to be fair.

I said to my ex tonight, i always admired the tough guys at the bar and aspired to be one of them, although my weapon was mostly mouth and i find out through the steps that i am really nothing like that...i do like the real me, i really don't like the guy from before at all and i am not him anymore, that i know 100%.

Opinions would be most welcome and input seriously...

[freya]

This is a really sad story and a very hard situation...but you are a different person now -- a person who can be real and feel his feelings, and that is a huge blessing even though it hurts like h*ll right now. You have also done some good program work recently and been building up a good stock of reasons to know that you can trust your HP through this, so keep praying and doing the next right thing and trust that HP will work it all out the way that's best for everyone.

Praying for you -- freya

[shaun00]

Thanks for sharing that with us cliff.
Very topical for me at the moment...

i pray for guidance and examine for self motive..

i traced someone a while back......ends up she is in spain.
but upon careful consideration and much conflict......i made the decision for now that the risks of harm to her and her new life is to high.

tread carefully my friend..........goodluck.........let us know how it goes.

[intention]

Hi Yeahgr8

This is truly a difficult situation you are facing. I may not be in the majority here but I will give my thoughts.......


So she told you in front of the girl that she had told the girl that you were her father. A few years later she approaches you and says you are the father again. And then that is it?

If she was only after money, then why did she not have the CSA after you? If she was lying why did she lie to her child? Who would do that? I know some would.......but this woman? you had a relationship with her, could she be the type? Also you didn't say if you were suspiscious of her cheating in the relationship. So there is a very good chance she is telling the truth.

i owe amends and that is what i am doing. I am not causing any harm by asking the mother the appropriate response to this situation

I think you have approached this right by emailing the mother via Facebook, in the first instance.

, i.e. if she is my daughter then it is up to you if you tell her but here are my details...at the end of the day all i am is her biological father, if at all, not her Dad...never been anywhere near her!

Although you owe amends to the mother you owe more than amends to the daughter (assuming she's yours), you have a responsibility to her, she is your child whatever age she is.

Now the mother may be very angry with you and that is understandable but if the mother wants no further contact on this then I am not sure that is the end. The girl is over 18, I think I am understanding that right?

The mother could hate you until the day she dies and believe that the daughter is best off without you in her life yet the daughter could be longing to see her Dad, wishing he would just contact because she can't do it herself without upsetting her mum.

I think you should consider if you have a responsibility to seek out the girl even if the mother doesn't want it. Could that cause harm? Yes it could. She may be very angry with you and hate you and not want contact but you would not be stalking her - it would be a one-off contact to give her the opportunity to accept your amends and responsibility to her. (You may cause harm to the mum/family but you could question what is more important here - them being harmed in the short term as opposed to a long term harm to the daughter if you did nothing)

If the girl doesn't want to know, you would walk away. Despite anger and harm you may think you have caused, it may lead to a reconcilation in 20 years time. You never know as that is out of your control but what you do know is if you do not seek her out, then that can never happen and that is something you are in control of.

Is there an option of seeking out a third party to verify whether or not the mother still is saying that you are the father?

I asked her do you think it would have been better if i was out of her life totally or in and out of it, she said maybe if you had known her you wouldn't have got so bad, i said nope that wouldn't have stopped me so she said that it was better that i was never part of her life.

I am not sure I agree with this. Yes, you have spared her seeing you as an alcoholic and all the horror that entails but how many children actually do better not knowing a parent? How many kids end up with problems in life because they have not known a parent. I know in some the feeling of abdonment runs well into later life.......I know someone in middle age who still talks like that and happens to have addictions and issues with alcohol. Every time they go to the doctors and get asked about family medical history they get a painful reminder of it........

There's nothing you can do about the past. You did what you did because of your alcoholism but you are a changed person now. Can anyone say it is still better that you are out of her life?


Something I do know for sure is that all these things happen in perfect time. There are "no mistakes in God's world". There was a reason why you suddenly got up the other night thinking about this. You could not have dealt with this huge emotional issue 4 months ago but now you are ready and He knows it.

You may feel like you have taken a step back because of the overwhelming feelings of what you could have missed out on if she is yours......but you are actually moving forward. This is just another stage in your journey of recovery. It may be resolved very quickly or it may take a lot of time with different stages which each need to be thought about, meditated about, sought guidance on.

And acceptance is the answer to all my problems........is something which comes to mind here. It's one of my favourite parts of the Big Book. I have something very difficult I have to deal with in my life every day and people can't understand why I accept it and actually welcome it. I know it was always meant to be and it is God's will for me and if I put my faith in him to lead me through it, then I will be able to live with it and be happy and contented.
Take care.

[Wolfchild]

i owe very substantial amends to my former wife and our two children. However, to do so would cause more harm to them and myself in the process. We have not seen each other or been involved with each others life for over fifteen years. While living with the sense of remorse, shame, and guilt was very painful for decades; i have learned how to forgive myself. This, above any action i could think of taking, has given me more freedom than i ever could have imagined or hoped for. A long time friend on FB gave me my mother's phone number recently. i had made amends to her, and many other family members, while working the Ninth Step many years ago. i feel obligated to call and see how she is doing, but realistically, we went our seperate ways when i was twelve. i am continuing to pray over this opportunity and am waiting to receive clear direction about this. The amends process, for me, is about being willing to take part in a spiritual, emotional, and mental healing. It's something that requires an intimate relationship with the God of my understanding and a realization that i can only be responsible for my part in life. My sponsor has often told me, throughout the course of our recovery, "If you ain't willing to be committed to something longer than the short term solution, your only acting on your feelings about it."

[Lily]

I think it is cool you are interested at this point in your life. See I am a woman who had a baby boy 21 yrs ago. His Dad I never stayed w/ cuz we were in our addiction/alcoholism. He had been abusive once and I was a total mean *&%&^##$! I guess I cannot blame him for never being in Matt's life cuz at first he showed some interest, but I dissed him a few times and disappeared from his life.

Today my son is a healthy productive member of society and I think I would like to hear from the Dad that he had changed and wanted to meet his son. In fact, just today his dad's best childhood friend asked to be my friend on FB. I haven't seen him (the bio dad) on FB and have googled him over the years a few times, but am happily married now in a different state. Just curious I suppose. If my son wanted to see his bio dad, I would be fine w/ that, now that he is a full grown man. I think you have done the right thing and now it is in God's hands to see if it goes anywhere or not. It could be a very good thing. I doubt the gal wants any money, I did just fine w/ out any from the dad cuz I just didn't want the headache that could have gone along w/ the money.

[SeekingBalance]

Hello Yeahgr8,

A friend told me about your post as it sounds so like my story, so I created an account. I am a year in recovery and am a single mother who just met her biological father. All I can give you is my experience.

I got pregnant when I was 21 and the child's father denied her and his mother said the same thing as yours. I attempted to get him into her life for a little while then just gave up. It was a loosing battle and we were better off anyway. I never asked for money, only to have her father in her life, medical history, etc. From the age of 2 - 8 we didn't hear from him at all. He had sent a few cards and letters claiming the child, saying he missed her and wished he was with her, signing them "Daddy". When she was 8 he found us through my parents in the phone book. I met him at a restaurant without her and he wanted to be a family. I made it clear that I was not part of the picture, but if he wanted to be a part of her life I would not keep him away. I expected nothing from him for myself or financially, but he was either in or out. Commit to this or don't do it at all. We haven't heard anything from him since, that was 10 years ago. She has never seen the letters or seen his face. She does not know he made contact a decade ago. I do not speak poorly of him ever, only that he made a choice not to be a father.

How do I feel about this? I usually don't think about it. It has just been us for 17 years and it has been absolutely the best thing ever. We have a wonderful life. When he does cross my mind, sometimes I feel sorry for him. He missed the birth and life of one of the most amazing people I have ever met. I got to enjoy every single day with her. Sometimes I feel angry, actually now that I think about it seriously, there is none left - just a ghost of anger because I guess it is appropriate - but it isn't real. Your post did make me cry, but it was hurt I was feeling from when I was pregnant. The denial and having to go through it alone was very, very hard. But the gifts of parenting and the love of this wonderful young woman has made every second worth it. He is no longer an issue or concern in our lives. If he came back with amends - I would stand by what I said before. His relationship, his amends are purely with his daughter. Now that she is old enough I would simply hand the whole thing over to her. I would suggest a paternity test as the first step so everyone is satisfied and then they move on from there as they choose and I would fully support my daughter in anything she needs around it. I would not want any type of relationship with him. I am sure he has suffered with this much more than I have.

Now to my father. I was adopted when I was 5 months old. My biological father did not know I was even conceived. I found him 2 years ago, we did the paternity test and he is thrilled he is a Dad and a Grandpa. We are building a wonderful relationship. It was terrifying, I had no idea what his response would be. It has turned out beautifully.

As for input - I don't really have any. One Day at a Time. Be honorable. Make your amends with your sponsor's guidance. Let go of the results. I really do wish you the best. Your honesty touched me. Thank you.

SB

[CarolD]

SeekingBalance.....Welcome to SR....

Thanks for sharing your powerful experience with us.
All my best to you and your daughter..

[CarolD]

Hmm.....
This may not suit the amends topic but.....this woman may well think
you are the father of her child in honest error.

Very difficult to estimate the exact time of conception in most cases.
You can not go by "Looks just like me" or "no family features visible'
You are discounting recessive genes when you think that way.

Only way to know for certain is a DNA test.

[Mark75]

I earnestly recommend that you work through this with a well qualified professional. Perhaps, the input of a priest, or other experienced spiritual advisor, might be of value in addition to professional guidance.

It is my opinion that this is a situation where your sponsor should play only a partial role in advising you.

The potential for serious harm exists, for all.

Good luck yeahgr8... you are a good man and I am hopeful you will find your way through.

Peace
Mark

[yeahgr8]

Originally Posted by Wolfchild

"If you ain't willing to be committed to something longer than the short term solution, your only acting on your feelings about it."

Love that!

Thanks SB for your share, it's great that you found your Dad and congrats on the year!!!

Thanks intention i can't say i disagree with anything you said.

Shaun in this case it was right to do what i did, this is a pretty easy one actually, i don't know your situation but with a slight tint on the situation this amend would not be appropriate to make and would definitely cause more harm than good.

As Carol said a DNA test is appropriate obviously, if it comes to that, and i have already decided that if the girl is mine and she does not want to know me then i will leave the contact details with the mother and at anytime she can contact me in the future, if she does want to know me then i would be over the moon...but i'm not going to force the issue either way as it is not about me.

A new morning, second day of the new job...which is my first sober and very different even though it is the same thing as i have always done! What a total gift sobriety really is! Feeling very grateful!

It is very clear to me that all of my actions were motivated by self seeking and fear over the years in this case, really the motives or mechanics of what has happened are quite irrelevant. The only thing that matters beyond the story is wtf am i going to do about it today? And i have done what i can, for now, like i said what will happen will happen from now and thats something that i dont need to concern myself with until the next step required comes along...

Glad i posted yesterday, especially cos of SB, but y'know i am sober and committed to the AA program and DO have a close contact with God but i am not a robot and still very young in sobriety...the thing that did get me yesterday was suddenly remembering that bit when i walked away outside the supermarket, i had obviously pushed that out of my mind, it just came back and i was outside at work...you can imagine rubbing my head, saying oh pls God no tell me i didn't do that as well...wow...a really special moment?!

Anyways all good will keep all posted on this and thanks for the feedback!

To steal a catchphrase, forward we go side by side;-)

One more thing, i couldn't care less if i owe the CSA 200k or whether my amend to the mother involves a similar monetory compensation and it takes me 20 years to pay it off, i'm good with anything practical that needs to be done along with all of this...like i said this is not about me at all...no more if onlys on this one though:-)

[intention]

Originally Posted by yeahgr8

A new morning, second day of the new job...which is my first sober and very different even though it is the same thing as i have always done! What a total gift sobriety really is! Feeling very grateful!

Congratulations on the new job. Hope it works out well for you.

[Stereosteveo]

Thanks for sharing Cliff. I commend your efforts in seeking the truth, and as we know, the truth really does set us free.

I would just like to add what others have said. Be sure to seek counsel in this matter, from several sources if possible. I only say that because as alcoholics we have a tendency to both minimize the important stuff, and over-exaggerate the not-so-important stuff. In most cases we're just better off doing as advised, because we really don't know the best approach sometimes, and that's OK.

I look at it this way: For whatever reasons, even those we can't comprehend, like everything in life, it's all happened the way God planned it. And so what's important right now is that we realize it's still happening in God's plan and be attuned to it. We do that by sharing, and letting God speak to the situation through the people around us. He never let's us down.

[intention]

Originally Posted by Stereosteveo

I look at it this way: For whatever reasons, even those we can't comprehend, like everything in life, it's all happened the way God planned it. And so what's important right now is that we realize it's still happening in God's plan and be attuned to it. We do that by sharing, and letting God speak to the situation through the people around us. He never let's us down.

Beautifully said, Steve. I very often find that God is talking to me through other people and it is quite often not the people I would expect.

[yeahgr8]

Thanks Steve, of course you are right! Man i can't trust my first thought, it's always wrong and blowing up the little things and skipping over what is really important is exctaly what i always do!

I spoke to my sponsor last night, i had been thinking about this last night again and went to a meeting...he listened to me for a bit and wwasn't saying anything so i stopped and so i said aren't you going to say anything and he said i was waiting for you to finish before i told you to **** off lol (love that guy)

He explained it all to me how i had done it again, tried to deal with things myself like i should know how to deal with them when really i haven't got a clue how to deal with these kind of things and i must ask him or another person at AA, as Mark said a spiritual advisor...someone, someone who is more mature and experienced than me...

I said to him that a week ago i was flying high, if we had a conversation about getting sober and emotional maturity i would have said yeah i know what you mean blah blah blah but then this happened and it was like a massive wake up to the fact that i am not an emotionally mature person and have never dealt with anything like this before in my life sober and haven't got a clue how to deal with it so...amazing AA saves my ass again...

I went to a meeting before i spoke to him last night, really didn't want to be there but sat my ass down for the full meeting...kept looking at people thinking who can i talk to, i should really talk to someone after the meeting, nope ill seem silly and i should know how to deal with this so shot out at the end to get my taxi home, went to toilet firrst and then bumped, literally into a guy at the meeting who has quite a few years after and i said what the hell is up with you tonight, he didn't seem his usual self, turns out his Uncle has died and was very sad he then said how are you, i said yeah ok, well no im not ok actually and told him, which felt weird but a relief, so we talked gave each other a hug and wished each other well, will probably see him on Friday and we can have a longer chat then!

I'm going to make an effort to not say im fine if i am not anymore and im not walking round with that dumbass salesman smile i always have when i feel sad inside waiting until i get by myself to let myself feel how i really feel...and always spouting off stuff like i know it all, when i don't! This has been a really goood experience for me and im really grateful for all that has happened...i am also sure of one other thing without AA and the steps i would be drunk, that's, at least, one constant in my new world of shades of grey;-)

Oh yeah one more thing about the story, another distant memory came back to me...the CSA came round when the child was very young as the mother had sent them round to my house and, after an interview with one of them, they said that they didn't think the child was mine and that they doubted that i would have to pay anything...they said that they thought she was only saying i was the father to get the money from them...see i totally forgot about that happeneing until yesterday...so i didn't just go off and think oh screw the kid, i had every right to doubt she was mine but i could have still insisted on a dna test but thats just crappy beating myself up over something stupid again...

Anyways thanks for the posts ill update this when i have something real to report, it will all turn out how it is meant to, and not turn the 12 step forum into cliff's dear deidre section!!!!

Another beautiful, sober day in gotham city:-)

[ananda]

but you know...it's when people like you are willing to share these things WHILE you are going through them....that inspire me....I mean you are actually working through something with the steps in the hear and now...

I think that helps me more than the well i use to stories i hear so often...

[Stereosteveo]

Originally Posted by yeahgr8

.. and not turn the 12 step forum into cliff's dear deidre section!!!!

HaHa, not the case at all. I don't think this thread is selfish in the least. In fact I know you are showing me "How it Works", that's for sure. SR is a great tool for getting it out on the table. Plus I've always enjoyed reading your posts and your honest writing style is obviously full of gratitude and humility. I could tell from day 1 that you have a really good group with some very solid sobriety in your parts. We are so very fortunate.

[yeahgr8]

Mother contacted me and confirmed today that she is indeed my daughter, pretty obvious actually all you have to do is see a picture of her!

So sent another message saying its not about me etc and ill be around and make sure the mother has my contact details from now on in case she wants to contact me.

So i have a 20 year old daughter who i have met once for 10 seconds...

Well i have done my bit for the amends part, let's see what happens now...even if she hates me and i never see her at least i have a heir now which is super cool...i never wanted kids because i always knew there was something wrong with me just didn't know what...hope there isn't too much of me in her!

I've thought about this quite a bit, and although i wish i had been there financiallly which is something the mother and i can talk about and i have said this, i am glad i was not around, i just bought hell into anyones lives who got close to me over the years and it sounds like the mother married a nice guy who has been her father...hope to get more details from the mother in the future.

Oh yeah and the mother has just had a stroke at 41 and is recovering so can't push for too much info at the moment.

There you go...

[intention]

Trust God

[Stayinfree]

I think you have been very brave to contact the mother after all this time.
You could have continued to ignore it, but you didn't.
You can't make up for the past 20 years of not being there, but at least you haven't been around and let her down a lot, due to your addiction.

Life just is what it is.........You are being guided now.
You are exactly where you are supposed to be.
Good on ya!