Inclusive Never Exclusive.. - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

24hrsAday · 10-09-2009, 06:31 AM

just got my first copy of GrapeVine oct 2009' the Lead article is about Diversity in A.A. and our third tradition.. i am glad we accept everyone who has an honest desire to get sober!

Tommyh · 10-09-2009, 12:26 PM

honest desire is right,I`m all for it,if they want to get sober

so many come without the desire to get sober and use the people and groups for different things,and hide behind the 3rd tradition to use people,places and things for their own purposes.

Boleo · 10-09-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

... i am glad we accept everyone who has an honest desire to get sober!

In the Forward to the First Tradition it said:

"There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted.

IMO those who only want to sober up long enough to recover their stuff
i.e. - drivers license, job, spouse, ect... do not have a HONEST DESIRE to quit drinking. What they have is desire to "Recuperate".

- All quotes from Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition -

**CarolD** · 10-09-2009, 01:20 PM

There is a Grapevine site too...

Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine Magazine

If you are planning to quote from their material
please do include their copyright. Thanks...

Music · 10-09-2009, 01:25 PM

Since few of us come to AA with even a clue as to what being honest means, and in keeping with what the actual wording of the third tradition is, I think it's better to just help those with a desire to stop drinking instead of worrying about how honest they are.

24hrsAday · 10-09-2009, 04:50 PM

i like the being honest part.. it means a lot to me because i have struggled so much with it.. sometimes i'm still unsure of what the truth is in certain situations..

shaun00 · 10-09-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

i like the being honest part.. it means a lot to me because i have struggled so much with it.. sometimes i'm still unsure of what the truth is in certain situations..

lol ditto.

i didnt concern myself with whether i had a honest desire to stop drinking when i turned up........i thought i had a honest desire a thousand times.

f. it........just show me how to get out of this head without the need to get smashed.

i felt like i was in a room with the walls closing in.......and the only solution was to drink.

scaredykat · 10-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

i am glad we accept everyone who has an honest desire to get sober!

Amen. The 3rd tradition has saved me a number of times in early recovery.

tomvlll · 10-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

just got my first copy of GrapeVine oct 2009' the Lead article is about Diversity in A.A. and our third tradition.. i am glad we accept everyone who has an honest desire to get sober!

Where does it say an honest desire?

AA doesn't even care if it's a fake desire.

AA is for alcoholics, but if you really aren't, I doubt you'll stay.

What would keep a non-alky there? The unlimited coffee for a dollar?

24hrsAday · 10-15-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boleo

In the Forward to the First Tradition it said:

"There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted.

IMO those who only want to sober up long enough to recover their stuff
i.e. - drivers license, job, spouse, ect... do not have a HONEST DESIRE to quit drinking. What they have is desire to "Recuperate".

- All quotes from Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition -

for you tom.. it may be old.. but.. it was written for a reason! and i Am alcoholic..

tricky164 · 10-15-2009, 05:58 AM

TRADITION 3,

Our membership ought to include all who suffer from ALCOHOLISM. hence we may refuse none who wish to recover.

i prefer the long form, it does it exclude. thank god !!

peace and fellowship to all who suffer from ALCOHOLISM !!

navysteve · 10-15-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Our membership ought to include all who suffer from ALCOHOLISM.

Children of alcoholics?
Spouses of alcoholics?
The mom who lost her son to a drunk driver?

They all suffer from alcoholism.

tricky164 · 10-15-2009, 07:50 AM

steve,

thats the concequences of our alcoholism on others around us.

NOT their alcoholism. and you know that !!

peace..................

navysteve · 10-15-2009, 07:52 AM

Yeah yeah yeah I am just being a pain in the posterior...

Just busting chops

tricky164 · 10-15-2009, 07:59 AM

In fact !

lets invite the police along to our meetings as my alcoholism affected them ?
and the prison service? oh and the bloke in the off licence, and dont forget the whole population of london ( that i upset at some time or other).

freya · 10-15-2009, 01:06 PM

Somebody (can't remember who) posted this link awhile ago on another thread. Not a lot of lyrics, but the ones that there are are good!

"Non-exclusive, all inclusive...This is my church!" -- Sister Bliss

YouTube - God Is A DJ Live

...just one of those free-association kinda days for me!

freya

jimhere · 10-16-2009, 08:16 AM

The long form of Tradition Three does define and limit our membership. Membership is limited to those who have alcoholism. However, we don't determine who is and who isn't. That is up to the individual. We can help the individual determine for themselves if they are undecided or plain just don't know. We qualify people in our group, and in my opinion we don't do enough of that. Instead, we just assume that because you are in the room you are in the right place and let people flounder around lost wondering what the hell is wrong with them and wondering why they fell like they don't fit in, unable to stay sober or clean, caught in the in-between place that is neither Alcoholics Anonymous nor Narcotics Anonymous.

I like the part that says that membership ought never depend on money or conformity. That means you don't have to pay anything, you don't have to look a certain way, smell good, or even say anything. We don't care if you are addicted to drugs as long as you are alcoholic. We don't care if you have a host of other disorders and maladies. We don't care about your moral fiber or your criminal history. What don't care what your race or sexual orientation is. We don't if you believe or don't believe. All you have to be is alcoholic.

So we are both exclusive and inclusive.

Exclusive to non-alcoholics and inclusive of all alcoholics.
Jim

navysteve · 10-16-2009, 01:30 PM

Page 44 is a great qualifier in my opinion. Since we in AA insist on readings before meetings I would like to see that one read at every meeting

10-09-2009, 06:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
24hrsAday Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,740	Inclusive Never Exclusive.. just got my first copy of GrapeVine oct 2009' the Lead article is about Diversity in A.A. and our third tradition.. i am glad we accept everyone who has an honest desire to get sober!

10-09-2009, 01:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
CarolD Forum Leader Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Serene In Dixie Posts: 34,835	There is a Grapevine site too... Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine Magazine If you are planning to quote from their material please do include their copyright. Thanks... __________________ Each Day Sober Is A Victory!! Joy In AA Recovery!

10-09-2009, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Music Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Zion, Illinois Posts: 2,529	Since few of us come to AA with even a clue as to what being honest means, and in keeping with what the actual wording of the third tradition is, I think it's better to just help those with a desire to stop drinking instead of worrying about how honest they are. __________________

10-15-2009, 05:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
tricky164 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: london, england Posts: 187	TRADITION 3, Our membership ought to include all who suffer from ALCOHOLISM. hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. i prefer the long form, it does it exclude. thank god !! peace and fellowship to all who suffer from ALCOHOLISM !! __________________ "ENLIGHTENMENT IS JUST A RECOGNITION NOT A CHANGE AT ALL"

10-15-2009, 07:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
tricky164 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: london, england Posts: 187	steve, thats the concequences of our alcoholism on others around us. NOT their alcoholism. and you know that !! peace.................. __________________ "ENLIGHTENMENT IS JUST A RECOGNITION NOT A CHANGE AT ALL"

10-09-2009, 12:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tommyh Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. Posts: 18,391	honest desire is right,I`m all for it,if they want to get sober so many come without the desire to get sober and use the people and groups for different things,and hide behind the 3rd tradition to use people,places and things for their own purposes.

10-09-2009, 04:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
24hrsAday Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,740	i like the being honest part.. it means a lot to me because i have struggled so much with it.. sometimes i'm still unsure of what the truth is in certain situations..

10-15-2009, 07:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
navysteve Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,870	Yeah yeah yeah I am just being a pain in the posterior... Just busting chops

10-15-2009, 07:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
tricky164 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: london, england Posts: 187	In fact ! lets invite the police along to our meetings as my alcoholism affected them ? and the prison service? oh and the bloke in the off licence, and dont forget the whole population of london ( that i upset at some time or other). __________________ "ENLIGHTENMENT IS JUST A RECOGNITION NOT A CHANGE AT ALL"

10-15-2009, 01:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
freya Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,547	Somebody (can't remember who) posted this link awhile ago on another thread. Not a lot of lyrics, but the ones that there are are good! "Non-exclusive, all inclusive...This is my church!" -- Sister Bliss YouTube - God Is A DJ Live ...just one of those free-association kinda days for me! freya __________________ *Working the Steps isn't about me acquiring power; working the Steps is about removing the things that block me from being a channel for God's Power.*

10-16-2009, 08:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 2,392	The long form of Tradition Three does define and limit our membership. Membership is limited to those who have alcoholism. However, we don't determine who is and who isn't. That is up to the individual. We can help the individual determine for themselves if they are undecided or plain just don't know. We qualify people in our group, and in my opinion we don't do enough of that. Instead, we just assume that because you are in the room you are in the right place and let people flounder around lost wondering what the hell is wrong with them and wondering why they fell like they don't fit in, unable to stay sober or clean, caught in the in-between place that is neither Alcoholics Anonymous nor Narcotics Anonymous. I like the part that says that membership ought never depend on money or conformity. That means you don't have to pay anything, you don't have to look a certain way, smell good, or even say anything. We don't care if you are addicted to drugs as long as you are alcoholic. We don't care if you have a host of other disorders and maladies. We don't care about your moral fiber or your criminal history. What don't care what your race or sexual orientation is. We don't if you believe or don't believe. All you have to be is alcoholic. So we are both exclusive and inclusive. Exclusive to non-alcoholics and inclusive of all alcoholics. Jim Last edited by jimhere; 10-16-2009 at 08:39 AM.

10-16-2009, 01:30 PM	#18 (permalink)
navysteve Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,870	Page 44 is a great qualifier in my opinion. Since we in AA insist on readings before meetings I would like to see that one read at every meeting

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