Confusing Apathy with Serenity

[Mark75]

Navysteve alluded to this in another thread and it really hit me that it was something I need to look at in my own life.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

and, of course...

"Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."

I have to admit that I have confused apathy with serenity. Perhaps early on that was just a defense mechanism, maybe God's will for me was to just not drink and I sought his power to do that.

Now as I go into my second year and the obsession with alcohol and the compulsion to drink it is lifting, I have a lot more growing left to do. I am a father of four with two in college and I am not done yet being a parent. I am a husband and a homeowner and a business to tend to. Life goes on and the endpoint of my journey is not sobriety, it is just the beginning, it is requisite.

It takes courage, for all of us, alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike, to meet the challenges of life, the needs of others, and, of course, to grow spiritually.

Thanx Steve, I heard something today that I needed to hear.

God, grant me the courage.... Let me listen to your will, give me the power...

Mark

[keithj]

Mark,

This is a really good point. In my experience, continued happiness and contentment depends on practicing these principles in all my affairs.

Getting sober, in that first year or so, I was willing to turn my alcoholism over to a higher power of my understanding. It was obvious to me that I lacked the power to stay sober, and I turned to the 12 Steps to bring a power in to my life. And it worked great. Way better than I could have expected.

But I still had fears, indecisiveness, confusion, in other areas of my life. These were areas where I was still trying to run the show. It's easy to apply the spiritual principles when it comes to drinking. I could not manage that well. But other areas of life, where I still could manage, or thought I could, I tried to hang on to.

Family, money, job, sex, recreation, working with others, etc, are all areas where I think I can manage. What I learned was that fear remained as long as I was in charge of those areas. But, as I more and more practiced the principles in those areas, I learned to deal with those areas on a different basis.

I turn my will and my life over by practice of the Steps. That means all of my will and all of my life, not just my alcoholism. With that practice, I find the courage to deal with the rest of my life. I'm not tied to the outcome of it. I'm tied to doing the right thing, and sometimes it sucks, but I do it anyway. The courage to do the hard thing, because it's the right thing.

[Bob23]

Good topic.
I try and remind myself to always check my motives. Which in turn prompts me to look at my life and ask myself some tough questions. As in where I feel a situation requires no action on my part, when actually it does. I find that if I'm feeling overly serene about something, chances are I might actually have some work to do. Maybe it's a question of balance.

[trucker]

Someone said to me in early recovery..."this is not about staying away from drinking..this is about carrying these principles to ALL areas of your life"..

For me trusting in gods plan took time.....meanwhile i continued to run the show in plenty of areas.....fear ruled plenty of my decisions..mostly bad ones.

and then all the things i wish would happen......happened.

wife....job...kids.....bills.......life.....with little old me floating around in it.

can i cope when i cant pay my mortgage?.....
can i cope when teenage kids steal 2k from me...
can i cope when my boss says.....dont go overboard this christmas...
can i cope when my sex life falls to pieces...

for me it seperates then men from the boys.

i can sit at home living off the state and be recovering for ever..
or i can get up grab life by the throat.....working the principles i needed to work in all areas of my life....and live.

i can winge about my life or pick what was freely given to me.

that said..lol...........control and manipulating situations is normally my downfall...as keith calls it...in charge.

even though .from experience i know that situations get better quicker without my input or control...stop tinkering..

apathy is simple for me......believeing my own b.s and doing nothing about it.
i cant do that for too long.......it becomes too uncomfortable.

[Ago]

That's why God invented the Ego

It's the burr under the saddle

be apathetic, that's cool, we all go through it, then "more will be revealed", then we go into incredible pain, then we blame and fingerpoint, then we have a growth period, It's easy to rest on our laurels, and I have never met anyone who didn't at some point, I also never met anyone who didn't have apathy followed by a(n) (incredibly painful) growth period.

I think the reverse also happens, we get all up in working everyone else's program, followed by incredible pain, then we blame and fingerpoint, followed by a(n) (incredibly painful) growth period.

I think we pendulum, swinging from one extreme to the other over the years until we stabilize, finding a "middle road" that IIRC is mentioned in Buddhism.

Like the Old Timers always told me with that great smile "just keep doing what you are doing", the lesson will come whether we want it to or not.

[navysteve]

Serenity as happy apathy can be seen in all walks of life, since many of us are striving towards a spiritual way of life it is not surprising that we look for these attributes in ourselves and others. I think apathy arises out of our selfish desire to practice avoidance instead of recovery. We go to meetings to not think about a drink instead of carrying the message to the still suffering alcoholic. I got a great view of this last night:

A new guy shared about how he was jammed up, just had a kid, was in danger of losing his wife, his job ( you know the deal...). We passed around the phone listing ( that isn't a bad thing, it just isn't 12th step work), after the meeting I was the only person to speak to him, he had been drinking. He wasn't out of his mind drunk, but he was drunk. I tried to get a few others to shake hands with him and I was told that we can't 12 step a guy who is drinking.

Wow! What if Ebby thought that way as he sat at Bill's kitchen table?

Now I had a test, I could get angry at the blind for being blind or I could accept the things I can not change ( other people)

But we can change other people- somewhere an alcoholic is sharing their experience with the program with another who is in need and the light will go on, that will lead to more changed lives. The one who gets to give without seeking any payment, even in the form of acknowledgment will know a serene peace unlike any others. That same person that hears the message and practices this way of life will have all those promises come true at some point and will themselves know a serenity and peace beyond anything else.

Now others too will come into AA and quit drinking. It is the biggest pay raise they will ever get. Their families will be relieved that they are no longer wrecking cars, going to jail, losing jobs etc...

They will go to meetings, share about how great their lives are, bitch about the kids when they act like kids, they might even make coffee now and then.

But serenity?

There are those too who will practice these steps with all the fervor of the dying clinging to life. They will occasionally burn out, go through me me me phases and eventually get back to the basics if they don't drink or find another way to fill the void.

They may get to know and appreciate serenity like no others.

Nathan Rotenstreich says that serenity is born out of insight into reality and its various aspects.

I think there is alot of truth in that. We found a Great Reality deep down
within us( Well, some of us have anyway).

Saint Thomas Aquinas states that apathy is born out of sadness,as being contrary to charity. I liken it to purgatory on earth. Apathy brings nothing to the table, it merely takes up space and blocks us from being of service. Of course we can go against our feelings, I do it alot.

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by Cubile75

Navysteve alluded to this in another thread and it really hit me that it was something I need to look at in my own life.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

and, of course...

"Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."

I have to admit that I have confused apathy with serenity. Perhaps early on that was just a defense mechanism, maybe God's will for me was to just not drink and I sought his power to do that.

Now as I go into my second year and the obsession with alcohol and the compulsion to drink it is lifting, I have a lot more growing left to do. I am a father of four with two in college and I am not done yet being a parent. I am a husband and a homeowner and a business to tend to. Life goes on and the endpoint of my journey is not sobriety, it is just the beginning, it is requisite.

It takes courage, for all of us, alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike, to meet the challenges of life, the needs of others, and, of course, to grow spiritually.

Thanx Steve, I heard something today that I needed to hear.

God, grant me the courage.... Let me listen to your will, give me the power...

Mark

Here's a consideration Mark.

Could it be that maybe for the first time in your life you are experiencing a true sense of contentment with where you are currently at in your life?
Jim

[Boleo]

Detachment is a word that conjures up different meanings to different people and seldom is associated with being virtuous. In psychology it is referred to as dissociation or apathy. But to some people detachment is the noblest of all virtues. Meister Eckhart said of it, as “He who would be serene and pure needs but one thing, detachment.” He also described it as the most noble of all virtues, higher even than humility or Love.
While to an outside observer, detachment may be indistinguishable from apathy, lethargy or ambivalence but at the level of intention it is fundamentally different. Both an apathetic person and a detached person might use the phrases “Who Cares” or “It’s not my job” but the detached person is really saying “That’s God’s job, not mine.
Detachment is taking action and totally detaching from the outcome. We are responsible for the work, God is responsible for the results. In some religions this is call Holy indifference. It can best be summed up in the words “Thy will be done”.


The ultimate goal for the person living a spiritual life is to be of maximum service to God. In order to maximize our potential we must go through a process of getting ourselves out of the way. First by humility, second by detachment and third by unity. Unity starts when detachment is complete.
Detachment is also the state of not being influenced by other people or personal feelings, the state of being unbiased. It is also a state where a person becomes separated from his or her environment and its influence. It is an important principal in Buddhism, Zen philosophy, and Kabala. Lao Tzu's expressed the concept in the Tao Te Ching: "Fame or Self: Which matters more? Self or Wealth: Which is more precious? Gain or Loss: Which is more painful? He who is attached to things will suffer much. He who saves will suffer heavy loss. A contented man is rarely disappointed. He who knows when to stop does not find himself in trouble. He will stay forever safe.”
The Greek word for unconditional love is Agape. They considered it the highest for of love because it was not dependent on any pre-existing circumstances such as friendship, family ties or sexual attraction. Agape is the wide open for of love where there is absolutely no reward, no benefit or “quid pro quo”.

Humility is generally considered to be the virtue most unattached to reward or personal benefit but some people simply are so innately modest that they only appear to be humble. Their reward is the ease and comfort they obtain through anonymity. Their true motive is the copesthetic feeling that they get from standing on the sidelines of events.
True humility can be summed up with the words “An open mind to the truth”.

Serenity is sometimes associated with a certain level of detachment but like modesty there is still some expectation of obtaining comfort or equanimity. It is only is the Eastern Philosophy’s and religion where absolute detachment is considered the pinnacle of serenity. In Buddhism it is called Za-zen, Wu-nien or Mushin. In Taoism it’s corresponding equivalent can be found in “Wu-wei”. True serenity can be summed up with the words “Be still and know I am God”.

Paul of Tarsus said the there were 3 noble principles; “Faith, Hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love.” This makes it appear as if Love were the highest principle but if you look at his qualifying list of attributes you will see that he is referring to unconditional love epitomized in detachment;

Love suffereth long, and is kind;
Love envieth not;
Love vaunteth not itself,
is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly,
seeketh not her own,
is not easily provoked,
thinketh no evil;