Sponsoring a drug addict.

[Bob23]

I'm getting some heat from some of the oldtimers in my home group because I'm sponsoring a young man who identifies himself as a drug addict when he shares in meetings. He himself also receives snide comments from time to time. I've suggested to him that identifying as an alcoholic and a drug addict might be a solution, if it bothers him.

Now, believe me, I've meditated on the 'singleness of purpose' and had a couple long talks with my own sponsor about this. This young man approached me after hearing me share, saying he heard 'something' that made him believe I could help him.

Part of me just wants to lash out at the bleeding deacons for their rudeness towards him, while part of me understands where they're coming from.

Your comments and ideas, end even opinions, will be greatly appreciated.

[Cubile75]

I'll leave this to the more seasoned veterans here, but I'm curious, can you relate to any of his drug taking story?

Mark

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by Cubile75

I'll leave this to the more seasoned veterans here, but I'm curious, can you relate to any of his drug taking story?

Yes I can. Alcohol is what brought me down to my knees. But there was a long, torturous road before that with other substances.

[Cubile75]

Originally Posted by Bob23

Yes I can. Alcohol is what brought me down to my knees. But there was a long, torturous road before that with other substances.

Same here...

Sometimes I read and post over on the Substance Abuse forum when there are posts that I have experience with and I can relate to... even though I don't identify as an addict.

I don't see why you couldn't take him through the steps then if you think you can. But that's only my opinion. Maybe he should get a grasp on the whole singleness of purpose thing first...

Mark

[trucker]

Originally Posted by Bob23

I'm getting some heat from some of the oldtimers in my home group because I'm sponsoring a young man who identifies himself as a drug addict when he shares in meetings. He himself also receives snide comments from time to time. I've suggested to him that identifying as an alcoholic and a drug addict might be a solution, if it bothers him.

Now, believe me, I've meditated on the 'singleness of purpose' and had a couple long talks with my own sponsor about this. This young man approached me after hearing me share, saying he heard 'something' that made him believe I could help him.

Part of me just wants to lash out at the bleeding deacons for their rudeness towards him, while part of me understands where they're coming from.

Your comments and ideas, end even opinions, will be greatly appreciated.

Are you suggesting he introduces himself as an alcoholic if he isn't?..

Would it not be better to help the guy find the right fellowship...i guess that would be NA.

Where he will get the indentification...which i think is vital.

As vital as it was when bill realized he needed another alcoholic to keep him from that cocktail bar.....
and the impact that had with Dr bob.

the problem here where i live is AA is full of problem drinkers and addicts.
i dont identify with problem drinking or drugs..

to answer your question no i dont think i could sponsor a addict...
how would i get round step one?....and how could i get that vital indentification?

i have been asked before by addicts.....i have called some of my friends that have past heroin addictions and are active members of na.
introduce them...........that is all i can do.

I'm not judging people for the path they took or looking down my nose at anyone........i just have deep concerns for what AA is becoming...here anyway.

Ive seen some real alcoholics being rude and judgemental concerning the addicts in aa...AND JUST TO BE CLEAR I DONT AGREE WITH THAT EITHER.

[LegalLady]

I don't understand why the people even care or the singleness of purpose. Didn't Dr. Bob take drugs and drink and isnt that mentioned in the big book. The Acceptance story that everyone loves so much is about drugs and alcohol. Times have change. Most people have done one or the other and mostly done both. Staying clean I thought was the message, but I'm a newbie at 19 months. All I know is finding a sponsor was hard for me. If you find someone you trust and relate to, and leads you to peace and serenity what's the difference what you took as long as you don't use it for your solution anymore.

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by trucker

Would it not be better to help the guy find the right fellowship...i guess that would be NA.

N.A is virtually non existent in our area. There are countless drug addicts in our A.A meetings. It's not just this kid. I've had discussions with him about why he meets with cat calls sometimes when he identifies as an addict. And he seems to understand, and bears no ill will towards those that call him out. He just has no experience with alcohol. He's 75 days clean, getting his color back and is desperate to live.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by LegalLady

If you find someone you trust and relate to, and leads you to peace and serenity what's the difference what you took as long as you don't use it for your solution anymore.

Amen! Two of my sponsees are former crack addicts. When they asked me to sponsor them I saw no reason to split hairs about their DOC.

After all........

Whenever anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there; And for that, I am responsible.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Bob23

N.A is virtually non existent in our area.

And whose fault is that? What if all the N.A.'s banded together and started their own meeting and refused to go to A.A. instead? Their meetings might grow and they might become recovered.

I did drugs and never became an addict. Not so with alcohol.



Here we go again.

Just read my signature and you'll see where I stand, but I agree with Trucker that we should not be rude. I hate being in a closed A.A. meeting and having to hear someone tell them where the nearest A.A. meeting is. I really do. But it's up to the person seeking recovery to know how to read a meeting list and for those at the Central Office and treatment centers to be on the same page. They've been informed more than once, guaranteed.

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

And whose fault is that?

Certainly not this kid's.
I agree with your signature, by the way. It is our most important foundation. But in the meantime, what are we to do with these desperate and suffering souls? This kid is eating up the First Step in a rabid fashion. I've rarely seen anything like it. He's smart and willing.

[trucker]

Originally Posted by Bob23

N.A is virtually non existent in our area. There are countless drug addicts in our A.A meetings. It's not just this kid. I've had discussions with him about why he meets with cat calls sometimes when he identifies as an addict. And he seems to understand, and bears no ill will towards those that call him out. He just has no experience with alcohol. He's 75 days clean, getting his color back and is desperate to live.

how about he starts his own NA meeting....get it on the map..
maybe there is hundreds of addicts suffering that need a na meeting in your area...?

i dont "do" cat calls and closeminded bs..........BUT i would do my do what ever i could to get him to the oppropriate fellowship..

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by trucker

how about he starts his own NA meeting....get it on the map..

We've discussed that. And when he gets his legs back under him, he just might, and I'd be glad to help him.

[Rob B]

One of the reasons AA has become ineffective today is the homogenous grouping of everyone. AA is for alcoholics. That being said, if there are no recovered drug addicts to bring him through the steps, I would do it, making sure the 1st step was based on his drug of NO CHOICE.

I would tell him that it was his responsibility to pass this gift on to other addicts, which would require the formation of an NA group.

[Cubile75]

Originally Posted by Rob B

I would tell him that it was his responsibility to pass this gift on to other addicts, which would require the formation of an NA group.

I like that Rob... addresses that individual's immediate need and the community's long term..

Mark

[Puddy]

Take him through the forwards, the doctors opinion, and the first three chapters of the big book. This is intended for him to diagnose himself as alcoholic or not. It'll be obvious if he is or he isn't by the time you hit page 44. If he's not, say to him - "congratulations! You're not an alcoholic! Now for AA's singleness of purpose, I need to move on to folks who are. there's all sorts of programs and fellowships for drug addicts, but you're welcome to come to open AA meetings for inspiration".

I finally figured out the difference between my alcoholism and my drug addiction. They were so intertwined I couldn't separate them. I finally figured it out - I used to smoke a ton of crack. I burned my life to the ground. I joined the Navy, got away from the crack, and the crack left my mind. I just stopped thinking about it altogether after a couple months, and never touched it again.

I've never been able to shake alcohol from my mind on my own power. It'll always come back if I let up on my program. That's the difference - the problem for the addict is in the drug. The problem for the alcoholic is in the mind.

but I'm being a hypocrite here, I also am sponsoring an addict-only. He's already been diagnosed nonalcoholic. He lives in a mission and doesn't go to meetings, just church and his mission work. I had an extra hour on Sunday afternoons to take him through the book, and he's so nice and hard for me to to say no to. But after him, I plan on letting all sponsees know when they're nonalcoholic at page 44 that I need to keep my sponsorship pure, and that there's somewhere and someone else they can turn to.

[Ago]

Where I live I attend meetings with a group called "The Traditionals"

They have open meetings, and closed meetings, in the open meetings in the Preamble it says, all our welcome but asks the "guests" not to share

He is a guest, if he is not an alcoholic that status is incontrovertible, if he was my sponsee one of the "conditions" I would put on my sponsorship would be to respect that status, fair or unfair, that would be the only way I would feel comfortable sponsoring him, is by being true to AA, thus to myself.

I couldn't sponsor someone not willing to respect the house he was in and admitting he wasn't a member, before you can learn to lead, you must be able to learn how to serve.

I have had as sponsees 2 men who are alcoholics but it was Oxy that brought them to their knees, and one other that was alcoholic but it was coke and pot that brought him to his knees

I was a garbage can alcoholic, so I related to their stories but it was alcohol that brought me to my knees

I know many many "anda's" that attend AA, every single one of them with long term sobriety has come to grips with "Respect The House you are in" and just "Identify" as alcoholics in AA

I also would consider my Ego in this equation. Am I the best qualified to help this person, or am I displaying the outstanding characteristic of the alcoholic, which is defiance. Am I playing God, or truly trying to be of service. If I could answer these two questions with total and utter confidence that my motives were absolutely pure I would:

If I were placed in this dilemma personally and I were absolutely sure it was "my job" to help him, I would get him to step 12 ASAP and then get him some of those "virtually non-existent" NA meetings so he could start 12 stepping there. "Virtually non existent" means there ARE NA meetings in that area and they desperately need help, I would train him how to be of service to the still suffering addicts then point him that direction.

I would need to check this for MYSELF with my own eyes, and make sure I wasn't denying another addict the opportunity to take him through the steps, that I was literally his only hope.

I am not all things to all people, nor is AA all things to all people, but there are ways to address that without breaking the traditions. Yes, I would want the hand of AA to be there but I would make damn sure it was AA's hand and not my ego's I was extending by praying on it and checking my motives thoroughly.

Do the right thing, the right thing is between you and your God, (staying within the traditions) and if you are sure in your heart of hearts you are doing the right thing, then don't let anyone stop you or tell you differently as long as you have run this by your sponsor and people in your support group and they agree you aren't deluding yourself.

I have told you the conditions under which I would accept this responsibility

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...newcomers.html (Do you "farm out" Newcomers?)

[Bob23]

I've checked my motives thouroughly, ago. Making the message of A.A 'thinner' certainly isn't one of them. I've turned this over again and again. In time, I hope the kid will see why he's meeting with some resistance from some of the oldtimers, and park his own ego at the door and start identifying as an alcoholic.

Puddy writes: "That's the difference - the problem for the addict is in the drug. The problem for the alcoholic is in the mind."

I find that hard to understand. Compulsion and obsession aren't the sole domain of the alcoholic. I've known too many drug addicts to think otherwise.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by Bob23

I've checked my motives thouroughly, ago. Making the message of A.A 'thinner' certainly isn't one of them. I've turned this over again and again. In time, I hope the kid will see why he's meeting with some resistance from some of the oldtimers, and park his own ego at the door and start identifying as an alcoholic.

Puddy writes: "That's the difference - the problem for the addict is in the drug. The problem for the alcoholic is in the mind."

I find that hard to understand. Compulsion and obsession aren't the sole domain of the alcoholic. I've known too many drug addicts to think otherwise.

I agree

At some point I stop worrying about the problem and thinking about the solution

The twelve steps have been proven to be an effective solution in NA

If I know how to work the twelve steps and show this man how to bring about a spiritual awakening I don't care if the problem centers in his anii

I will be interested to hear about this young mans willingness to work all twelve steps, after the fact, let me know

[Puddy]

Fair enough, I'll re-word it more effectively:

I've been addicted to cocaine (powder and crack), opiate painkillers, marijuana, sleeping pills (benzos), Suboxone. All of them were devastating, severe addictions at different points in my life. Each time I got away from whichever drug, the drug left my mind, and I never went back.

At the time of each addiction, there was obsession and compulsion going on. Making a simple life change, like moving or joining the Navy or just getting a better class of friends - was sufficient to halt that particular addiction permanently.

The problem for this addict was in the drug.

For 24 years, from age 11 to age thirty-five, I drank. I swore off forever (with and without a solemn oath) dozens of times. I could never let it go even through all those same life changes. Every life change, oath, resolution, etc I made, the booze came back on the table.

The problem for this alcoholic is in the mind.

And now you know a drug addict who doesn't fit your prior conception!

If those other addicts you've known went through the BB and took all 12 steps in their entirety they might be able to see the difference as well. That's what it took for me. This has been a great post.

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by Ago

If I know how to work the twelve steps and show this man how to bring about a spiritual awakening I don't care if the problem centers in his anii

Nicely put, Ago.

For me, when someone exhibits true willingness and desperation, the immediacy of offering help supersedes fellowship boundaries. 75 days removed from a ten year crack habit, I do well to remember that this kid might just be now starting to think clearly again, and that I need to cut him some kind of slack when it comes to singleness of purpose for now. The main thing is that he is embracing a new way of life, littered with stuff unknown to him before.

[Boleo]

A.A. History – Problems Other Than Alcohol

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Bob23

But in the meantime, what are we to do with these desperate and suffering souls?

Ummm... play God and try to fix them?

Originally Posted by Bob23

We've discussed that. And when he gets his legs back under him, he just might, and I'd be glad to help him.

Well there's you answer to your question to me. Bill W. did it. Now he has the same opportunity or to become part of that kind of fellowship or perhaps an even better one. God knows there's those out there in the vast sea of the www that claim a better way than A.A. A.A. itself doesn't claim a monopoly.

I tried helping some with PTSD because their counselor brought them to A.A. I was told by two of these "bleeding deacons" you speak of to knock that off and I may have caused them more harm than good. IDK. I'm not saying what's right or wrong here. Merely my experience and what I've been shown.

We currently have a thread in here now which talks about "farming out sponsorship". I like RobB's post where if there's no other available at the time, get them going with their own DONC until they can work with a recovered addict.

I also would like to hear NavySteve's input here.

Add: Oh. I've got another little problem in this deal here. I've got a friend who is a recovered addict but he isn't an alcoholic. He can drink booze. He's not even a hard drinker. He can drink two beers and stop... everytime. That kind of blows the old paradigm, huh? What do you do with that?

[Bob23]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

Ummm... play God and try to fix them?

I quit being divine when I admitted I was powerless over alcohol

And yeah, a few of the oldtimers are classic bleeding deacons, my way or the highway types. Wouldn't be A.A without them...

All I know is that this kid wants to change his life and asked me for guidance.
And so far, he's walking his talk. Not mine.

[Puddy]

Originally Posted by Bob23

I quit being divine when I admitted I was powerless over alcohol

And yeah, a few of the oldtimers are classic bleeding deacons, my way or the highway types. Wouldn't be A.A without them...

All I know is that this kid wants to change his life and asked me for guidance.
And so far, he's walking his talk. Not mine.

And I'm doing the same thing with the ex-speed freak who goes to church and works/lives at a mission downtown. I don't want to make it a habit though, is all I'm saying.

The fact that he doesn't go to AA meetings and pollute it with his tweaker experience helps.

[CarolD]

Bob.....
From what you wrote....I think you are in a position
to start an NA group in your area.

You obviously see the need....so take action
Remember......
AA meetings started around kitchen tables