McGowdog

Agreed, Steve.

And Cathy, I agree with what you say too... but! Your post seems to have a hint of ego in it as well. I love my HG meeting/group. We're a bunch of recovered alcoholics. But sometimes we romp and stomp and let our egos loose.

I also like meetings where there's sick newbies and sick oldbies!

CarolD

Just came back from my hG's noon meeting
no one listed to chair. When Paul walked in
I asked him to "Please chair"
He never had but met our requirement to chair.
It was an open discussion.

I simply told him to read our format then the
Daily reflection for today. No big deal.

He also signed up to do so for the rest of Sept.
I was so pleased! We now have another member
willing to expand into a service committment...

Boleo

My experience has been that meetings that DO NOT control crosstalk end up as what I would call "Open Destruction" meetings where most everyone rambles on about there "problem soup de jure" or worse - people end up arguing with each other.

I find it useful to remember what it says on page 417 (4th Edition):

"When I stopped living in the problem and began living in the answer, the problem went away".

littlefish

Freya said it best IMHO: I have never experienced a meeting with negative crosstalk: such as someone questioning a share or criticizing. That to me would be extemely negative, because for me, AA is one of the only places where I can share the truth about my faults and weaknesses. To be criticized for sharing my faults and weaknesses, or to be questioned why I have faults or weaknesses...well, that would make me walk straight out the door of AA. Run, actually.

I think that is the reason for discouraging crosstalk. In recovery we need a place to go naked, so to speak, without feeling embarrassed about all our existential warts and wrinkles.

sailorjohn

To me, the simplest solution would have been for the meeting chair to explain to the 'visitors' that the meeting was Alcoholics Anonymous, and that she probably was not in the most appropriate place to share her story. And I've attended meetings where a 'visitor' was told as much when they offered that they were there to support the alcoholic they came to the meeting with.

Just what I would have done, I'm sure some would disagree.

My home group doesn't have a 'no crosstalk' rule in place, I'm thinking we probably should for a fairly important reason that no one's mentioned or even hinted at. A fair number of us were raised in alcoholic households where crosstalk was the rule rather than the exception, and spent our formative years in an environment feeling like we didn't have a voice.

Going to an AA meeting and being subjected to the same sort of environment including unsolicited advice is probably very unhelpful to a newly sober alcoholic. Myself, I can remember being subjected to unsolicited advice at a meetings after I made the mistake of collecting month tokens.

Needless to say, I didn't collect many tokens that first year.

Lily

When I had 5 months sober after a share I had a lady yell at me I was being judgmental about my sister. (I had shared that my sister was an addict in denial and I have a really hard time talking on the phone w/ her sometimes when she is high) She literally yelled at me finger pointing and everything. I was very embarrassed. I decided to NOT let one lady keep me away and returned the following week.

Exactly one week later I went to the SAME meeting and it happened again after my share with a different lady. I had shared I was told to "stick with the winners", and she started yelling at me that everyone in the room was a winner if they were at the meeting and how she hated it when people said that.

Afterwards I approached the chairperson and told him I was was frustrated this had happened and that I probably would not be returning. He said don't let your sickness keep you away.

I never went back. I think I was disappointed he didn't say anything during the cross"yell" It was a candlelight meeting and I know my face turned very red both times.

My experience. I learned very early on that cross talk was not allowed during advice or diagnosis if someones share.

On the otherhand, I do not think it cross talk to say to someone, "I really related to what you were saying Janel about how your brother blah blah blah", then share my ESH.

barrylane

One of the chairmans jobs is to control the meeting... if they can't do that and have everyone feel welcome and comfortable, then maybe you need a new chairman for the month... rarely have i ran into a problem with disrespect in meetings... that's what it boils down to, respect for one another... occasionally we'll have a live drunk wonder in that has to be reeled to the side to avoid a fight, but i've never seen much action take place... it's part of the life of a drunk, recovering or active... some of you guys seem to take things very personal.

as far as cross-talk, it goes back to respect... don't have a 2 party conversation in a room full of members attempting to conduct a meeting... you're not the center of attention anymore.

McGowdog

Oh no! Please, this is what some in the meeting talked about afterwards too. Wait till you hear what happened today with regards to the situation yesterday. (in the spirit of observing our traditions and the reasons behind them, of course).

My wife says that in my family, we all talk over each other with absolutely no regard to the one who has the floor. She says that there is absolutely no way to get a word in edgewise. This includes my extended family as well. So... I've been going to meetings for a while now... and this has been where I've learned to sit and listen for about 55 minutes and talk for 3 to 5. Very good point sailorjohn.

So anyways... today the chairperson kind of had a little group conscience with us before he opened the meeting up. He said we were going to talk about the little elephant in the room. First, he told us that the format of this meeting was that it was and is designed to be a non-smoking and a non-cussing meeting. There's actually a sign on a wall that says, This is a non-cussing meeting. I remember this because everytime they read the format, they say "This is a non-smoking non-cussing meeting." And I always say under my breath, "G-D it! I left my cigarettes at the effing bar!" But then he said... crosstalking. He gave his definition of it and why we should try to refrain from it. He said no giving advice, but try to share from your own experience. He also said, we refine our talks to our "own" drinking... not anybody elses. He reiterated that this meeting, although open, is to discuss our experience strength and hope with regards to "alcohol".

So... it was normally a 12 x 12 study group meeting where we go around the room and read out of the 12 x 12, but since we had 3 newcomers, he made it a 1st Step meeting. Nobody argued. That's what we did.

Firehazard

Great question Mcgow,

I'm not sure the history of why? Or when it started. I do know that

the rule had saved my life. Upon coming into the progam I would never let

anyone speak without putting my (all important two cents in). After the

Kabbosh was put on that in meetings and I was forced to eighter listen or stay

within myself a amazing thing happened. I started to mind my own

emotional/mental business. Yes, I shut up and after around three months of

practicing that my mind began to shut up and quit down at least during

meetings. This has contiued and grown into a respect for what is being

shared and have learned how to "be true to myself" with this rule. Today in

meetings especially as secretary I will begin to politely incourage the no

crosstalk rule and if that doesn't work I'm the guy who will go off, or kick

people out for it. This is done to allow the newcomer to learn the basics like

I was.

Cathy31

No!!!! ( I think YOU have ego saying that I have ego!)

Jokes! :ghug3 I'm sure there's a hint of ego in everything I say and do - I am MASSIVELY IMPROVED though! Even if I do say so myself!

Cathy31

Precisely. Advice giving, making suggestions, etc if you're so inclined (I'm not - what do I know except I'm sober through the Grace of God and that the program works - I'll share that) you can do after the meeting. If someone runs away cause they're not getting that IN the meeting, John, you're free to run after them. It's not etiquette, it's allowing the group to do what the group can do best. We all know the primary purpose and it's not to feed our egos by being the expert.

Cathy31
x

CAPTAINZING2000

There isn't anything more annoying then, to hear someone in the back of the room chatting with the person next to them while, someone is sharing.

Grrr


As far as a new commer coming into their first AA and asking a few questions about AA nothing wrong with a few questions answered and to tell them to talk to you after the meeting.


I didn't know anything about AA coming into my first meeting. I was clueless as to what was going on. To get a newcommer started on the right foot, there usually needs to be some brief questions and answers. Then, turn the meeting into a first step meeting.



The person chairing should politely tell anyone being disruptive with cross talk to step outside with their conversation.

Music

Most alcoholics, not me of course, have huge egos. We're opinionated, stubborn, hardheaded etc., ad nauseum. The problem with crosstalking becomes who has the loudest voice and the largest....well, dare I say it.....nuts. It would take an awfully strong chairman to control some of the possible consequences of allowing people to talk freely, without constraints. I tried it once a while back and was fairly successful but the ground rules had to be strict and understood by all in attendance. It was a Big Book meeting and we started out the usual way with the period of silence and the Serenity Prayer. Then once around for introductions. We read out of the book and people were allowed to break in at any time with questions or comments but one person at a time and no talking over someone else. The advantage is that instead of having to remember questions or comments until the chapter or paragraph had been read, anyone could stop the reading instantly. Sometimes we didn't get any further than a sentence or paragraph, but the discussion was quite enlightening and a lot of folks got a chance to talk. I really enjoyed it and I think most did. The important thing is to set the ground rules and make sure they're adhered to.

freya

Perfect!

jimhere

Thanks for this.

Of course the very word rules will get the hackles of most alcoholics up. Or even a structured format will do it for some. Or like in some meetings when you share your experience with the steps, the ones that haven't done them or refuse to do them all say "Stop telling us what to do!"

I work at a detox center. We have a list of people waiting for beds a mile long. After they are admitted and as soon as they are lucid enough, a lot of the patients start bitching about our rules. Some even leave AMA (against medical advice) because they don't like our rules.

Typical alcoholics. "Screw you guys! I'll do it my own way even if it kills me!"

Jim

McGowdog

Now them Irish egos are the worst, right? (Kidding)

I recently heard that yesterday's experience becomes tomorrow's truth and knowledge... and eventually... ego.

Maybe this is why those steps are circular for some of us.

navysteve

I have been thinking about this thread alot.

I think in a larger meeting a degree of structure has to be the norm. I have been to some big free flowing meetings and in my opinion they were all horrible! ( please no there is no bad meeting rhetoric) but I have been to some great small free flowing meetings. As has already been stated, it comes down to an informed group conscience, and if the members are centered in their recovery then the format will not matter. Cross talk will happen when it is suppose to, people will be directed to other fellowships when they are supposed to...

I am not living in fantasy land here when I say that AA groups can be like this. I have been a part of groups just like this. I miss them alot when I am not in them. I crave that fellowship like a hungry man in a chow line. A good group breeds good sobriety, a bad group may keep some folks sick or inspire them to find the fellowship of the spirit.