Working with newcomers

[navysteve]

I have had a few guys coming to me for sponsorship from the local Back to Basic Group. I have about 5 of them telling me the same story " They feel they are being rushed through the steps" That made me think of page 95 in the Big Book:

He should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within.

Can the desire come from me making step demands? Forced phone calls etc...

Willing to go to any lengths means practicing the steps- that's it!

That page goes on to say:

If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us. But point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that.

Now I know this page is talking about 12th stepping, but isn't sponsorship on-going 12th step work?

Back to my recent influx of sponsees:

These guys are all telling me the same thing about feeling forced to work the steps and how they feel like they are just going through the motions.

So,
If a guy is hesitant about working steps, do they have a right to stand on the fence? There is alot of talk about how they did things in the good ole days. Clarence made new men talk to ten alcoholics and be hospitalized before they could come to meetings. Should we do that today? I personally don't think so, if a newcomer wants to stand on the sideline we ( as recovered alcoholics) should honor that choice. Our book speaks of this over again:

To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.

Page 44.

The guys I have been working with who are in this situation I feel are stuck on step one, I have told a few of them if they feel that they are not alcoholic they should try some controlled drinking. I try to keep myself available, I don't just cut them off.

What do you do?

[jimhere]

I do pretty much the same thing Steve.

Maybe the only thing I do different is right at the beginning when I ask them if they are ready to stop drinking for good and for all and if they are willing to go to any extreme to do so? If they answer is anything other than "Yes I am," I don't work with them.

Of course the extremes are not, as I believe you yourself Steve pointed out in another thread, stuff like calling me all the time or anything like that. And, as you have also pointed out, the lengths are the steps.
Jim

[CarolD]

Tho I have not personally met anyone who
is/was involved in the "Step A Hour" groups

should that happen ....I would follow the same
guidelines from our BB and Q & A on Sponsorship.

Guess I will be learning from this topic Steve.

[Ago]

What I do is ask as well, "are you willing to go to any lengths" and if they say "Yes" off we go.

It soon becomes apparent whether they are serious or not, if they are not serious, I remain "available" but if they don't "formally" work the step when we come to it reading in the BB our "meetings" get put on hold, since the truth is we don't have too much to talk about other then the steps after a certain point. I am not a marriage counselor, banker or therapist.

The truth of the matter is I can usually tell if someone is serious within our first three meetings if not before.

A whole crew of us got sober together, and every single one of us grabbed on with both hands, went to meetings, and worked the steps to the best of our ability as fast as we could, while still being thorough.

I need to remember that not everyone shows up with that sort of willingness. There is a reason we still remain sober friends nearly twenty years later. I can't "push" people to do the steps, I can only remain available to those are ready, willing and able, and not alienate the ones that aren't so I can of service if they should decide to get willing.

I try to use "attraction not promotion" in sponsoring guys

[BP44]

Early on my sponsor pointed out a reading to me from As Bill See's It that alks about setting out a pail of water and talking to the new guy about how good it is, showing him that we drink from it. But we can't force him to drink it, but we don't ever take the pail away either. Jim was very clear with me on our first meeting that if I didn't stay he wouldn't lose sleep over it, he'd find another alcoholic to work with. I do the same thing with my guys. I get very clear on what we are about to do so that there are no misunderstandings. I like meeting weekly until we reach instructions for inventory. After that we have nothing more to meet for until 5th stepping. I make a judgement on willingness very early on. Are you calling and are you showing up? I put into it what they put into it. And I do suggest daily calls. I don't demand it though. I wasn't connected to God early on and quite frankly I can't recall ever hearing someone say that they were. And my experience is that I'd better get connected to something or someone other than my own head, until I can. The reality is, if someone isn't willing to sit across the table from me and start with the title page, there really isn't much progress that can be made. Those are the ones that I see the novelty of AA wear of pretty quickly and they just go away.

[navysteve]

I just want to make sure I make it clear that I am not against Back to Basics AA. I think the concept is good. One of these guys that came to me still looks like he is in a fog however. I think guys like him are how 90 in 90 came to be in AA. He ain't comprehending ****. Most of the guys I know who get something out of Back to Basics are guys who have been white knuckle sobriety and guys who have been in and out. Two desperate groups of people.

Just my opinion:

I see sponsorship today as one of the things that keep both the new person and the sponsor sick ( not trying to stir the pot) By placing expectations on the new person I set us both up. There are no winners in AA, there are people who are ready and people who aren't. For the person who is ready, there isn't much I need to do but provide direction, for the person who isn't, there isn't anything I (as a sponsor) can do to make you ready. But I have to remember, if you are sitting in a meeting and you are alcohol free, you are not on the road putting alot of lives in danger. That isn't a bad thing

[FightingIrish]

I have a guy now who is probably wondering what is up, what is wrong with this a-hole he asked to be his sponsor. We met five times without being able to get into the book. I explained to him that the book is all I know about sponsoring, and that as I'm 18 years younger than him and single probably means that I'm not going to be able to counsel him on money, marriage, retirement, and his step-kids. He calls me every now and then...I return his calls...and I see him at a couple meetings I go to. That is all that's happening...e.g., nothing. Am I supposed to be chasing him down or firing him?

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

I have a guy now who is probably wondering what is up, what is wrong with this a-hole he asked to be his sponsor. We met five times without being able to get into the book. I explained to him that the book is all I know about sponsoring, and that as I'm 18 years younger than him and single probably means that I'm not going to be able to counsel him on money, marriage, retirement, and his step-kids. He calls me every now and then...I return his calls...and I see him at a couple meetings I go to. That is all that's happening...e.g., nothing. Am I supposed to be chasing him down or firing him?

Hey Irish,

I don't believe the deal can be forced. In fact I think the book says something about that. Just go with it and see what happens, up to a certain point. I do think that it will get to a get off the fence situation and then it will be either get into the book or move on.

[AW2486]

I have been talking to a agnostic bar owner / bar tender that drinks a 12 pack of O'dules every day while he works. 3 months ago we got together and did the Doctors opinion. Then he called the next 3 Mondays and said he couldn't make it. Then he quit calling. I see him at my Wed meeting every week. He was avoiding me for awhile but I always said hello and that I was glad to see him. He called last Wed. and said he needed to talk to "Somebody that Cares", and he knew I would. We talked after the meeting and he still doesn't want to do it out of the book. I said that's the only way I do it anymore. He said he would think about it.

So what is next for this man ? His own experience. If I ever work with him again, that's up to him and God. But I will always be available.

[navysteve]

So what is next for this man ? His own experience. If I ever work with him again, that's up to him and God. But I will always be available.

That is the stuff I aim for my friend.

[sugErspun]

I was thinking about those who don't want to work directly out of the book ~ and how would I respond.

#1 - it's the way I was brought through the steps and I don't know any other way.
#2 - Page 42 says "It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. That was not easy." http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt3.pdf

I have a good friend, works the steps as outlined in the book, works with a ton of guys ~ but he has ended up drinking a couple times after being sober for 2 or 3 years.

He was recently going through the steps with a new sponsor and was asked to make a list of things that he was not willing to give up for a better relationship with God (I have heard of this second step activity ~ though I have never done it myself). He called me and was ranting a little bit about how this guy wouldn't let him just say "nothing" right away....

My only advice came from the next sentence in that book "But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved, as in fact it proved to be." I also related something about surrendering to the process, regardless of past experience or the "way" he thought it should be done. He asked someone he respected to take him through the steps and then balked...

He agreed and continued to work with that guy.

I believe surrendering to the process comes easy when you have a powerful first step experience.

[Wolfchild]

i turn the evidence of what i see over to God and pray for understanding. i remain open to what happens next & wait for real clarity. i also talk matters over with my sponsor and follow his direction.
i have learned (the hard way, of course!) the difference between trying to teach someone what the 12 Steps & the 12 Traditions mean or letting them find that out on their own. As a sponsor, i feel a certain amount of responsibility for the progress of my sponsees recovery. i have a desire that they call regularly, go to meetings, and make daily effort to stay sober. But when i have used that as a standard to judge their willingness, i have fallen short. i know this because when i get frustrated with them, i try to control their recovery process and try to manipulate their priorities. At times, my defects of character interferes with my ability to accept reality and spiritual principles. There are days that the disease tries to reassert itself as an ultimate authority in my life. i have found it more helpful to focus on the positives & similarities than to allow any type of negativity to lead me somewhere i don't want to go. i've tried to analyze what areas of my life (or someone else's) that it appears that there is a lack of surrender, but i quickly become lost in my own head with that. My experiences could lead to strength and hope if i continue to allow God to guide me in my life & my recovery. They could lead me in another direction if i don't allow God to guide me! The most important questions i can ask my sponsees are, "What direction are your actions taking you?" & "What are you learning from this experience?" Their answear usually indicates to me how they need to be guided and how i should pray for them. i remember that it is a 'WE' way of life and go with that.

Thank you very much for sharing your progress and helping me today!

[keithj]

Originally Posted by navysteve

Can the desire come from me making step demands? Forced phone calls etc...

I sure don't think so. The only thing I can offer the man who is sitting on the fence is sitting down and reading the book with him to see if his experience resonates with what is there. And that's only if he wants to. I've had very little luck in 'convincing' others to take the steps, even if it's clear to me that they are suffereing.

The take it or leave it approach seems to be more effective. There is almost nothing I can do for someone that is not willing (or desperate), and there is nothing I can do to stop the man who is.

On the flip side, I've also learned I'm a pretty poor judge of who is willing and who is going to become willing. I've seen more than one guy just not 'get it' for a while, but hung on plodding painfully slowly through the steps until one day it clicked.

It's a judgement and prayer call for me. I look for guidance. Some guys need some very forceful direction. They don't know any better what is good for them. Leaving it up to them to do what they think is best is not a great idea. And other guys need some gentler nudging to come to their own conclusions.

No easy answers except knowing that I don't know what is best for them. I know what is in the BB and I know how to take the steps shoulder to shoulder with the new person. That's all I got.

[Music]

Whether I sponsor someone or not isn't up to me. It's up to God. All I do is make myself available.

As far as how I sponsor....I sponsor the way I was sponsored. When I read the Big Book, I notice at the end of each step, it say to move on, or we don't hesitate before going on to the next. The longer it takes to work the steps, the longer the newcomer carries around the garbage he walked in with. So, I encourage the people I sponsor to not sit back and rest on their laurels, but keep moving forward. If that causes him to feel pushed, so be it. There's always the opportunity to choose a new sponsor who'll play along and allow the pigeon to drag his feet. That's not up to me either. I don't sponsor people the way they want to be sponsored. If they want what I have, they'll do what I did. If they do what I did, all I can do is guarantee them sobriety for 32+ years. Beyond that, I have no idea. I share what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. That's all I can do. To waste time trying to figure out a special formula to fit each pigeon isn't in my play book. I only know one way to sponsor. That's good enough for me.

[Sugah]

I'm considered somewhat of a "soft" sponsor because I don't require daily phone calls or "fire" sponsees because they linger over steps or are reluctant to attach themselves to my hip. I bite my tongue and do my best to give my ego over to God when I hear this -- because I'm often tempted to point out how many women who've received "soft" sponsorship from me now have multiple years of sobriety.

I do believe in steady progress through the steps -- because that's what saved my life. That's my experience. But I can't force anything on anyone. If someone I'm working with is reluctant, I do make it clear we don't have a "real" sponsee/sponsor relationship until we dig into that ugly blue book and get to work. Once they're ready, however, we work in earnest. If there's lingering along the way, that's fine. I don't abandon them, but I also don't pass up a chance when listening to the day's laundry list of misery to point out there is a solution

It's not exactly the way I was taught by my sponsor, but I have to remember that my sponsor had less than two years' sobriety when we started working together. I was only her second sponsee and she was young (27). I can see how my approach has changed from my first sponsee to my more recent ones. Instead of remaining rigid, I try to remember that "God will constantly disclose more to you and to us" (BB, 1st Ed., p. 164).

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[jimhere]

Well I am not by any stretch what you would call a soft sponsor.

But when working with others I also live by some of the principles outlined in Chapter 7. Steve already pointed some of the out.

Not forcing this on anyone. You either want to do the deal or you do not. If you 'linger" on the steps, get another sponsor. Time is too valuable to waste on someone that wants to mess around. This is a life or death affair, but maybe you don't believe that yet. You may have to drink some more to find that out for yourself. Alcohol, not me is the Great Persuader.
Jim