Non AA-approved literature at meetings

[Rowan]

I know several of you who might be able to provide some insight on this topic.

At today's meeting, which is just that, a meeting, and not a group, a man brought in a reproduction of the 1st edition of the Big Book and displayed it on the chairperson's table. I asked him what it was, as it had no dust jacket and was red. He told me that it was the 1st edition, so I figured it was okay.

The meeting began and a couple of noses got out of joint when two non-AA pieces were read. The chairperson had found them in the binder and decided it would be nice to have them read. Not long after the second piece was read, two gentlmen, one with many years of service work at the district level, asked what the book was. He was told it was the 1st edition of the Big Book so he asked if he could see it. As introductions continued, he exclaimed that it was a Hazelden publication, and therefore not to be displayed at our meeting.

Quite an uproar ensued - we've all witnessed them, I'm sure. The chairperson tried to restore order but was unsuccessful for some time. The two gentlemen stormed out. The man who brought the book? He apologized when it came his turn to share. This same man often does not follow our Traditions, and tries to sneak in books like this which he may or may not quote from, or pass them onto a newcomer. I do believe that he intends to be helpful, but that's not the point here.

I am GSR for my group, and this is a new position for me. I will be asking a woman I know well to be my service sponsor as I need much direction in this area.

I would be interested in your experiences in this area - not war stories, mind, but why these publications violate our Traditions, and how.

Oh, I meant to mention this before; two weeks ago, I chaired that meeting, and the same man (the book guy) raised his hand after the discussion, and said he needed a couple of minutes to talk about the last Intergroup meeting. I reminded him that this was a meeting, not a group, and could this not wait until afterwards, for those interested and/or involved? He told he that it could not wait and held the room hostage for 1 to 2 minutes while he talked about how money from the group was being used. At the time, I asked a senior member to please assist me, but he shrugged his shoulders in surrender.

I really would like to know how best to be effective in these situations. I do not wish to get involved in a power struggle, I just want to be informed.

[Rob B]

Sounds like it is time to have a group conscious and settle this. Of Course, group conscious meetings can get heated as well. An informed group conscious is ideal, a quick "let's vote on it" will only result in ongoing bitterness between members. I hope there was not a newcomer there who was looking for a solution,if so, what they witnessed was not very attractive, and not a study in principles before personalities.

Maybe Jim will be along, he has given me some excellent formats and info on how to conduct an effective business meeting and group conscious, it has made our group tighter and closer to God.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Many years of sobriety doesn't always promise serenity.
We read the 24 hour book at our meetings. I'll ask if, anyone knows if, there was a group conscience to use this book
They say alcohol is but a symptom of our disease the more stories I hear like this, the more I believe this saying to be true.


It does not appear in any literature approved by the AA General Service Conference. But individuals and groups are in no way restricted to using only literature approved by the conference.

AA FAQ



grr


I hate having to research

[tomvlll]

We just went through this in our group, so I can share my experience.
Re: conference 'approved ' literature. The conference does not approve or disapprove literature per se. They approve something for publication and then it is published. The 1st edition is technically not conference approved because there was no conference.
The conference approved the publication of the Grapevine but does not approve/disapprove each article.
The conference does not appprove/disapprove any literature other than what is approved for publiction. That is, they don't say Hazledn material is 'disapproved'
The conference does not approve/disapprove of what groups can use at meetings-that is done by group conscience.
There is no tradition which addresses the use of literature.

This was confirmed in an emial to me from GSO. You can write them as well.

[Rowan]

Rob, if the meeting isn't a 'group' then how does it go about having a group conscience or business meeting with no members? There are several of us who attend faithfully, and one man in particular who does the set-up, but it's not considered a 'group'.

Thanks thus far to those who shared. I can do as much research as the next man or woman, I was looking for your experience and insight more than anything.

And, to answer Rob's question, there were two newcomers. One seemed quite affected by what he witnessed, and while unfortunate, I do recall being new myself and witnessing a similar incident. I was very upset at the time, but thankfully it did not deter me from coming back. I hope I can say the same for the two members there today.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

you've lost me in your description of a meeting versus a group??


Definition: A small number of people with correlative talents committed to a common purpose, specific goals, a similar working approach as well as evenly distributed accountability among members.

Isn't that by all accounts a group of members attending an AA meeting is?

Is this meeting recognized by N.Y. ?

[Sugah]

From the pamphlet, The AA Group: Where It All Begins:

Is There a Difference Between a Meeting
and a Group?

Most A.A. members meet in A.A. groups as defined
by the long form of our Third Tradition (see page 42).
However, some A.A. members hold A.A. meetings that
differ from the common understanding of a group.
These members simply gather at a set time and place
for a meeting, perhaps for convenience or other special
situations. The main difference between meetings and
groups is that A.A. groups generally continue to exist
outside the prescribed meeting hours, ready to provide
Twelfth Step help when needed.
A.A. groups are encouraged to register with
G.S.O., as well as with their local offices: area, district,
intergroup or central office. A.A. meetings can be
listed in local meeting lists.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[navysteve]

When talking about whether a book is "AA approved" the question is often this: "Is the book General Service Conference approved literature?" Conference approval is only considered for books published by AA World Service in NY (AAWS). It serves as a way of saying that AAWS has put together a book and the General Service Conference has approved it. AAWS organizes the General Service Conference.

It has nothing to do with what can and can't be used in a meeting

[Tommyh]

we have seversl meetings here and quite a few groups
meetings just are what they sound like,meetings.They have not registered with GSO and do not take part in the AA service structure.Here,most meetings do not have home group members,instead they are made up of members of other groups who visit regularly.

Groups here are registered with GSO and about half of them take part in the AA service structure.They have home group members and GSR`s.

It is up to each group to decide what they will read and how to conduct their meetings.
Like the others sadi,just because it isn`t AA approaved doesn`t mean it is AA disapporaved.
GSO does not govern us as to what we read,we are free to choose.
My home group sticks with AA approaved literature except we still use the old 24 hour a dsay book and we probally will for a long time.That is our right and priveladge.

now about the Intergroup issue.I am glad you have someone to report to your group what is going on in Intergroup,even if you are just a meeting.You need to know just how your donations are spent.He was doing a good service.One solution:sometimes during the meeting,read this---do we have any group busineess or AA anouncements?Then is when he should give his Intergroup report.Our Intergroup delegate usually gives ours during our monthly business meetings.

about a group conscience meeting,you could announce it for a certain date,either before or after the regular meeting.Those who stay does the deciding.They have the say so.They discuss and vote on what the group does.
If those who don`t show ,complain,well,they had their chance.

I take it this meeting gives donations to Intergroup and has a Intergroup Delegate from your post.
That is good.

[jimhere]

Well, to begin with, it is not a group, as has been pointed out.

But, let's look at Tradition Four which states that a group is autonomous except when its decisions affect other groups. Which means that if it isn't having an adverse effect on the rest of the groups in town, let them do what they want.

I used to go to an Eleventh Step meeting in Seattle which, by group conscience sometimes used non-AA literature as topic material. A lot of the times stuff like Emmett Fox's Sermon On The Mount was used and the meetings were very good. Once in a while someone would bring in some New Agey stuff and the meeting was kind of out there. And now and then some old-timer would get all bent out of shape and go on about them not using "Conference Approved literature." One time I told this guy that he didn't have to stay at the meeting and he could leave. That's what I do when a meeting isn't to my liking, I vote with my feet.

And "conference approved" doesn't mean it has a seal of approval like the Roman Catholic Church does when it deems a book worthy to read by its congregants.

This is just my personal view, but much of the so-called "Conference Approved Literature" is crap anyway and buying into the idea that there is some sort of party-line that AA groups must toe concerning what literature they use precludes intuitive thought.

One last thing, our group is an Alcoholics Anonymous group and we're cutting our ties to the service structure, except at a grass-roots level, which means supporting our intergroup and participating in hospital and corrections work. We aren't going to support GSO/AAWS, Inc. because we don't buy the party line anymore.
Jim

[concolor1]

All of you above . . . A "meeting that isn't a group," but a person who is a GSR is posting? They change what the "G" meant in that one lately?

Another whose group doesn't "support GSO or AAWS because we don't support the party line anymore"?

Curious if the "party line" has changed since I was in service? Are they suggesting it's okay to serve booze in meetings? Or an occasional glass of wine before dinner? I'm kind of doubtful on that one, and that's the only "party line" I've ever heard of . . . Course I did hear about this group in East Skunk Dip, Montana that used to adjourn to the bar after every meeting, but that group kind of fizzled out after it had all kinds of problems . . .

Cue up that old song, "All Along the Watchtower," either the Hendrix or the Dylan version . . .

There's too much confusion here, I can't get no relief!

Well, I suppose that's "outside literature," too . . .

I kind of like the approach to "Keeping it Simple" I stole from my old friend, Fr. Tom W. (and as spiritual and all that as he is, it wouldn't surprise me if he stole it somewhere himself): "Show up. Pay Attention. Tell the Truth."

Back when I got sober, the old-timers used to scare us with the story of Charles Dederich and Synanon just as a warning of "going too far" in following certain "AA gurus." I never had to worry about that one since my first sponsor got drunk early in my sobriety, and I've always been careful of the "authorities" ever since . . . And a couple of times I've forgotten that one, there's usually been a lesson that followed that got my attention real quick . . .

I forget the name of the judge in AA from California who noted that AA consists pretty much of folks who "are lucky they aren't locked in an institution somewhere," but I think there's a lesson in that one, too . . .

Anyone running into some rigid sorts who appear to be taking themselves far too seriously, well, best thing I've learned is to step around them quietly (It usually pisses 'em off if you point it out to them directly), and go back to keeping things real simple . . .

And if it appears sometime that I'm acting like one of those sorts, well, go ahead and step around me, although I might hear what you have to say without getting too bent out of shape . . .

Took me quite a few years to reach that point, though . . .

[Music]

[QUOTE=Rowan;2348011]Rob, if the meeting isn't a 'group' /QUOTE]

Whaaaaaaaaaaat??? Meeting......Group??? WTF is this? A group is more than one, and any group can be a meeting. Groups are autonomous and can elect through group conscience to read Jack and the Beanstalk if they choose. Good grief. Talk about a power struggle??? Keep a group hostage for one or two minutes. Alcohol kept me hostage for 15 years and I'm going to gripe about one or two minutes. Stop being so petty and get on with the business of staying sober. Listen to what helps and discard the rest.....including this post if it'll make you feel better.:wtf2

[NoelleR]

I'm all for 'groups' or 'meetings' to have a group/meeting conscience to decide what books/whatevers will and/or won't be read in the group/meeting, but let's remember what 'Conference Approved Literature' really means, and it DOESN'T mean what may or may not be read in groups/meetings.....:

The term “Conference-approved” describes written or audiovisual material approved by the Conference for publication by G.S.O. ---(remember, GSO owns/operates a printing/publishing co.).

The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply
Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any individual member what he or she may or may not read.

Just because they don't/can't print certain books/pamphlets/whatevers doesn't mean they are 'not allowed' to be read, ONLY that GSO doesn't/can't print them (maybe because they decide to not print them, but more than likely, some other co. owns the publishing/printing rights and will not give up those rights).

.....one last thought.....Many meetings end with the Lords Prayer (a practice with which I thoroughly disagree). Although this is not read directly from a book, it does come from the Judeo-Christian Bible-----definitely NOT a 'conference approved literature' ----- lolol


NoelleR

P.S. ..to read more on 'conference approved literature' go to AA's website and read their PDF file.....: http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-29_en.pdf

P.P.S. Regarding the recitation of the Lord's Prayer at AA meetings.....In arguing for its recitation, Bill W. made, imo, one of his most 'ignorant' (?) statements (written in a 1955 letter of his).....:

“Of course there are always those who seem to be offended by the introduction of any prayer whatever into an ordinary A.A. gathering. Also it is sometimes complained that the Lord’s Prayer is a Christian document. Nevertheless, this Prayer is of such widespread use and recognition that the argument of its Christian origin seems to be a little far-fetched..."

I'm sorry.....its Christian origin seems far-fetched.....? ....ah well, just something to think about..... (o:

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by jimhere

This is just my personal view, but much of the so-called "Conference Approved Literature" is crap anyway and buying into the idea that there is some sort of party-line that AA groups must toe concerning what literature they use precludes intuitive thought.

I would not go so far as to call it "crap" but I would say that most of the books in Bill & Bob's libraries would not meet "Conference Approved Literature" standards. Take a look at the following and see if ANY of it is Conference Approved:

Where Did The Big Book Come From?

What were the sources of the ideas and principles of the recovery
program of Alcoholics Anonymous? Bill W. answered this question in an
address delivered to the Medical Society of the State of New York on
May 9, 1944.
Bill W. stated: "At the very outset we should like to make it ever so
clear that A.A. is a synthetic concept - a synthetic gadget, as it
were, drawing upon the resources of medicine, psychiatry, religion and
our own experience of drinking and recovery. You will search in vain
for a single new fundamental. We have merely streamlined old and
proven principles of psychiatry and religion into such forms that the
alcoholic will accept them. And then we have created a society of his
own kind where he can enthusiastically put these very principles to
work on himself and other suffers."

Man, The Unknown

By Alexis Carrel
Published in 1935, this 346 page volume was the turning point in
determining what focus the Big Book should take.
Bill W., in an address to the Yale Summer School of Alcohol Studies
stated: "On reading that book, some of us realized that was just what
we had been groping towards. We had begun to build a program out of
our own experiences. At this point we thought, let's reach into other
people's experiences. Let's go back to our friends the doctors, let's
go back to our friends the preachers, the social workers, all those
who have been concerned with us, and again review what they have got
and bring it into synthesis. And let us, where we can, bring them in
where they will fit.

The Bible

The early members read and studied the Bible and special
emphasis was given to the following two areas:

1- I Corinthians XIII. Paul listed the aspects of love and points of
what love is not. He also points out the contrast between gifts,
perfection and love.
2- The Book of James. The theme of the book of James is Christianity
in action and it deals with a series of topics which were of great
interest to the alcoholics. These topics are:

- 1:1-18 Trials and Temptations
- 1:19-27 Listening and Doing
- 2:1-13 Mercy and Judgement
- 2:14-26 Faith and Works
- 3:1-12 Taming the Tongue
- 3:13-18 True and False Wisdom
- 4:1-12 Friendship With God
- 4:13-5:12 Investing In the Future
- 5:13-20 Power of Prayer

The Varieties of Religious Experience

By William James
Published in 1902, this 526 page book was read by Bill W. following
his spiritual experience in Towns Hospital, in order to understand
what had happened to him.
Spiritual experiences, James thought, could transform people. Some
were sudden; others came on gradually. Some flowed out of religious
channels; others did not. But nearly all had the great common
denominators of pain, suffering and calamity. Complete hopelessness
and deflation at depth were almost always required to make the person
ready. Bill W. reasoned that to have a spiritual experience or awakening
required.

The Greatest Thing In The World

By Henry Drummond
Written in 1883 at a mission station in Africa, Drummond
first delivered his sermon on Love at the 1887 Northfield Conference
in Massachusetts. The sermon is an analysis of I Corinthians XIII, which is
Paul's explanation of the supreme gift - Love.
The early members used to practice one of these elements each week and
then discuss the results. This way they came to understand Steps six
and seven.

As A Man Thinketh

By James Allen
Published in 1902, this volume can vary in page quantity but is
usually printed as 59 pages. This book was used by early members to
understand the principle of "cause and effect."

What Is The Oxford Group?

By The Layman With A Notebook
Published in 1933, this 132 page volume was considered as the basic
text and purpose was to explain the principles of the Group's life
changing program and the practical spiritual activities.

For Sinners Only

By A.J. Russell
Published in 1932, this 347 page volume was a testament to the
effectiveness of the Oxford Groups. The book describes in detail the
aims and processes used to bring a person to a changed life.
The Oxford Group described "sin" as anything which blocks me off from
God and my fellow man.
From this book Bill W. borrowed much of the writings on self and the
functioning of self contained in Chapter 5. Most of the ideas
contained in Steps 3,4,5,8,9 came directly from this book.

The Common Sense of Drinking

By Richard R. Peabody
Published in 1934, this 191-page volume was written by a recovered
alcoholic who had utilized the program of the Emmanuel Movement in
Boston. Peabody went on to become a lay therapist in New York City and
he had an office near the Calvary Church where Bill W. was attending
meetings of the Oxford Group. From this book, Bill W. borrowed phrases such as "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" and "half measures are of no avail." In addition the entire story of "a man of thirty" contained in the chapter More About Alcoholism appears to have been lifted from Peabody's book.

Sermon On The Mount

By Emmet Fox
Published in 1934, this 199 page volume was used by the early A.A.
members and those in New York also attended Fox's lectures.

Twice Born Men
Souls In Action

By Harold Begbie
These two book which were written in 1909 and 1911, respectively, were
volumes of "drunk stories" of men and women who recovered through
spiritual experiences and came in contact with the Salvation Army in
England.

A Way Of Life

By William Osler
Published in 1937, this 41 page volume was used by early A.A.s to
understand the concept of living one day at a time.

A NOTE THE IMPLICATIONS OF PSYCHIATRY...

By Harry Stack Sulllivan,American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 42, July
1936 - May 1937, pp.848-861.

THE NEUROTIC PERSONALITY OF OUR TIMES

By Karen Horney, M.D.

[tomvlll]

Don't forget :

Alcoholics Anonymous - 1st edition

Not conference approved.

[Wolfchild]

It's rather discouraging to see how many people can quickly lose sight of the
One who is really in charge of this simple and spiritual program of recovery.

Would anyone like a few pieces of cotton?

[Rowan]

Thank you very much, Boleo, for taking the time to post that information.

Some of you old guys just kill me, though, with your attitudes towards this. I came here and asked a few questions, and admitted my own ignorance in this area - because I want to learn, and I want to be of service. If I ever develop the holier-than-thou attitude that some members possess, someone please shoot me.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I'd say, the thing for you all to do is have a group conscience after a meeting and take a vote on it.

You don't attend a meeting to lose serenity, you go to a meeting to recharge your serenity