going to bars in sobriety

[Em002]

I wanted to get some people experience with going to bars in sobriety. I went to a bar this past weekend with some close friends and my sister that all knew that I am sober in aa. The plan I had was to just go to dinner with them then leave when they left for the bar. I was not done talking with them by the time dinner was over so I decided to go to the bar. I only stayed for about an hour and a half when they started to get drunk I left. Didn't bother me at all I actually had a great time.
So I came back and the next day I was honest with my sponsor. She now calls me and says that this is non-negotiable with her basically saying but not coming out in saying it that she won't sponsor me if I don't change my opinion on this. I don't plan on going back to a bar anytime soon or going regularly this was just a special occasion on me and my twin sisters birthday.
I just don't know what to do because I am not going to change my mind to me this was not a big deal I went with my sister and everyone knew I was in aa.

[Sugah]

Em, the Big Book tells us we can go anywhere, so long as we're in fit spiritual condition. I've been in bars, at parties and in restaurants that served alcohol. In all cases, I had a good reason to be there, I was in touch with my HP before, during and after, and I kept a close eye on my spiritual condition. I've left early, gone late, and stayed the whole time.

Does your sponsor express concern for your spiritual condition?

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[DaveBB164]

read the last paragraph of page 100 through page 102 in the Big Book and have your sponsor do it too.

[barb dwyer]

Hi Em-

It's not for me to comment on what went on between you and your sponsor.

But for myself -
I stick with what the book says - when there's a good reason for me to be there.
And that pretty much is interpreted as - going to 12th step someone.

I know there's a ton of people who will say they go to bars all the time and it's no problem for them.
That's great for them.
I'm not one of them, though.
I spent ten years in bars usually tending bar.
So we're talking 60+ hours a week, just working.
That doesn't count the hours I spent in there
just drinking.
I can't go there.

I think a further conversation with your sponsor is in order, though.
When you don't understand something
it's time to ask questions.

Good luck to ya!

[MycoolFitz]

It's always judgement calls--going to bars, picking a sponor, adhering to what the sponsor requires of us. Being in recovery is just like real life for earthlings. We're faced with multiple choices and decisions everyday. The more we know ourselves, are aware of our motives, are mindful in the moment, the better of we generally are. However, we do have a dis ease which includes denial, delusion, craving and all sorts of mean nasty stuff so we need to be ever on gaurd and never complacent. Day by day with determination, grit, courage, strength a sense of humor and wonder, we sally forth to do battle with our devil. Keep the faih and the path and all my best to you.

[laurie6781]

I have no idea how far along you are in your recovery and I don't claim to know your sponsor's reasons for saying what they did.

In "Working With Others" in the BB of AA
1st. Edition.... on page 101 it says:

In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed.

So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.

At 6 years sober I was in a dither as I was living in a very small town and the only job I could get while waiting to get on in Administration out at one of the gold mines, was working as a bartender. My sponsor reminded me of these passages, and we talked long and hard about it.

Today MANY years later I still do not make it a 'habit' to go to bars. That is not to say over these many years that I haven't been in one now and again, usually one with a restaurant attached and usually for a get together with sober and non alkie friends.

I have a 'daily reprieve contingent on my fit spiritual condition.' Bars are just not a place that I care to be, besides I figured out fairly early in sobriety that they REALLY STINK. The smells to me are extremely offensive.

As to what you just experienced, so be it. This is something you really need to sit down with your sponsor and see where she stands and why and quietly explain why you were there.

You went to dinner, you went to the bar, you left when they started getting drunk, you say you won't be doing this again anytime soon ................................... so be it. Now might be a good time to look within yourself to see why what your sponsor said bothers you so much ....................................... someone trying to control you? someone telling you what to do? the old rebellion returning? etc

J M H O

May you continue to grow and change in your recovery.

Love and hugs,

[navysteve]

Wow Maureen,
Sounds like your sponsor doesn't read the Big Book or doesn't know how to take you through the steps.

I just don't know what to do because I am not going to change my mind to me this was not a big deal I went with my sister and everyone knew I was in aa.

A sponsor's only purpose is to take you through the steps not tell you how to live

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Em002

She now calls me and says that this is non-negotiable with her basically saying but not coming out in saying it that she won't sponsor me if I don't change my opinion on this...

My opinion, get a new sponsor and tell her to keep her middle of the road God complex to herself, then have her read the book; specifically around the 10th step and again in a Vision for You.

Now, if you're done with all your amends, I agree with you being at the bar so long as you have a good motive and you're on strong spiritual ground. But if you feel squirrely, check yourself.

I'd bet 5 bucks that if you do that, your sponsor will come crawling back to you and beg you to take her back. She sounds like she needs someone to boss around. I hate sponsors.

Originally Posted by barb dwyer

I stick with what the book says - when there's a good reason for me to be there.
And that pretty much is interpreted as - going to 12th step someone.

Yeah, that and going to have lunch or dinner with friends/family.

But, like you say, if you can't handle it, go.

[Cubile75]

Originally Posted by Em002

I don't plan on going back to a bar anytime soon or going regularly this was just a special occasion on me and my twin sisters birthday.

Lots of good stuff here, I've got nothing more to offer, except I just wanted to put it out there... you and your twin sister's birthday.... You seemed to be spiritually fit... I can see why you've questioned your sponsor's ultimatum...

I hate ultimatums... I usually do the opposite... I'm recalcitrant

Oh, talk with your sponsor, get right with yourself, and God.... don't let this eat at you... BTW, thanx for bringing this to the forum... It helps all of us...

Mark

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I've had occasions where, I went to a place to eat. The dining area was filled up so, I went and ate in the bar. The world doesn't stop drinking becuase we do.

There will be many events in your sober life where there's going to be alcohol involved.
I still go to comedy clubs, sporting events, wedding receptions and concerts where, alcohol is served. I go there with people in the program or, people that drink socially.

At this point in my sobriety, I know I'm an alcoholic and one drink in me again, I might not ever recover.

Basically, I wouldn't want to be in a bar very long because, I'm reminded of what I used to be and I don't care to see it in other people now days.

[bballdad]

I have been to bars and restaurants that serve booze since I got sober...i did not drink,or did i want too
I went for whatever business i had,and then i left and went somewhere else

I would not make too big a deal out of the sponsor thing if possible,it will blow over

[concolor1]

It sounds like it turned out okay, and all--or at least most of us--have done what you did from time to time. Of course those of us who are telling these stories didn't get drunk, or if we did, we lived to tell about it . . .

Personally I recommend hitting a "dive" bar and checking out just how putrid the restrooms are. That one always helped me, but since you're a lady, you might get a guy to go with you some time to a really rank ***** tonk and let you preview the inside of the gents' quarters when the coast is clear...

That should knock out any illusions of romance (and denial, IMHO, functions on "romance," or at least the self-delusions that have that quality about them and remove us ever-so-slightly from reality). I know my last drunk started in a bar (in 1979) when I was in there after not drinking for a couple of months, and the "committee" had time to work on me and tell me how good that 12-year old Scotch would taste . . .

I posted elsewhere about my length of sobriety (a lot), and I'm not into bragging, but I think I've managed to spend a few continuous hours in a bar maybe three times in the last five years. All of them involved social situations with friends or relatives from out of town; I've broadened my horizons beyond the AA folks I used to spend all my time with in early recovery, and I have a life these days, but sitting around in that environment isn't much of a part of it.

Seriously, at this point in my life, the noise is enough to keep me away...

And yeah, you can tell your "sponsor" that some old fart over at soberrecovery recommended some codependency work for her control issues . . . But then I had a controlling sponsor for a while, and he did help me in a number of ways I needed . . . Recovery means letting go of "seeing things in black-and-white," which is often part of our fundamental immaturity . . .

Above all, go slow and keep it simple . . . Okay?

CC1
Laughing at the board's censorship software and the asterisks . . .
Hint: It's a word some people use to denigrate white folks; begins with an "aitch"
No biggie . . . Artistic poetry this ain't . . .

[navysteve]

Any ultimatum given by one AA member to another is wrong.

[trucker]

omnipotent sponsors again..

sure i have gone to bars....to be honest i found them overrated..lol.

we go for food quite regular....my wife drinks in the house also.

if i feared the next drink......id end up having it.

as dave pointed out........read from bottom of page 100 of the big book

and as dog pointed out.......look for another sponsor.

in my experience i cant "hide" from alcohol.

[sugErspun]

Sounds like someone is hanging out at the barbers shop and will end up with a haircut soon enough.

(I am kidding btw).

alcohol, bars, other people drinking ~ this is not the cause of my alcoholism and I don't believe there are "slippery places" which are found outside my mind.

I go to bars now and then, I am around people drinking now and then. I don't hide or shelter myself from alcohol. I am pretty sure there is alcohol in my house, but I haven't looked recently or noticed for that matter...my girlfriend likes to open a bottle of wine now and again, have a glass or two and pour the rest down the sink. Sometimes I am there, sometimes I am not.

Where the book says that we stop fighting..even alcohol. Does my experience ring true with this? Absolutely.

I think the same is possible for anyone who takes the steps at outlined.

[McGowdog]

This is the whole essence behind being spiritually fit; neither cocky nor afraid. We are in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. "We can do all sorts of things..."

Yeah, I don't like bars much either. But there's a few in this town that serve good food, so I'll do a lot of takeout. But I've got my favorites saved in my phone so I can have it ready to pick up as soon as I get there. I don't go up to the bar, order a ginger ale, and stare at the bottles of Crown Royal and Jack Daniels.

Most of the time when I'm around people that are drinking booze, which is not very much at all anymore, I rarely see people drink like I did. Once in a while, I see someone getting tight, but not too often. My family, friends, etc. seemed to drink way more back in the day. I know the party is still going on out there... it must be. But it almost seems like I've been removed from it. It's hard to describe. From time to time, someone from our group will call me drunk or I'll see someone in or around a treatment center meeting. The guys I used to work with drank their booze and did their drugs. I hated that. Being with these knuckleheads in Florida, Texas, California, Bordertown Mexico, New York... and these idiots are spending their per diem at the bar. Then when you fly to the next town to do the next job, they're trying to figure out how they're going to transport their drugs. Idiots. I stayed sober through all that though. They wanted me to drive them around because I was sober. I said no. It's when they got hammered on the job that I began to get concerned. I was the boss's brother too. These guys from time to time would tell me they were proud of me for staying sober and they would never ask me how it was done.

But if I go to a bar, it's early. If I go to a wedding reception, we leave early. Most weird things happen from about 8:00 pm on to about 2:30 a.m. That's when I'm in the comfort of my own home if I had my way. I guess I've gotten boring that way. But that's alright with me.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Em002

I just don't know what to do because I am not going to change my mind to me this was not a big deal I went with my sister and everyone knew I was in aa.

I agree. I think you should just tell your sponsor to screw off and keep doing what you think is right. After all, she's probably just trying to control you anyway and your way has worked so well for you in the past, you could probably even stay sober without AA. Of course, I was told that if I hang around a barber shop long enough, I'll probably feel the need to get a hair cut but the guy who told me that was an old fart with only 10 or 15 years sober. What the hell did he know?

[digderidoo]

There's nothing in the big book that say you can't go to wet places. It sounds as if she's putting her recovery onto you.

I go occasionally to pubs, it's usually a special occasion or to eat. I don't feel as though i want to mix with people who are drunk so don't spend the night there. I also go to nightclubs occasionally, friends know i don't drink, it's not an issue. One of my friends doesn't drink either it's good. I do tend to arrive late, earlier is when people are just getting started really, i also rend not to stay till the end when people start acting silly drunk.

I don't think it's a good idea to go if you are having issues or problems with drinking, or early in sobriety. I have had alcohol thrown over me once when a couple of guys were fighting, it did go on my mouth and lips, it wasn't very good for an alcoholic to have it happen, i have heard similar stories, so you have to be careful.

Also make sure you have a get out if you don't feel as though you're comfortable there. I tend to drive myself, not rely on anyone, so if i want to leave i can and i have done that a couple of times, made my excuse and leave. As long as i have a get out plan, i feel safe in a pub/club environment occasionally.

Paul

[Boleo]

I believe we can go to a bar or nightclub if we;

1. Have worked the steps
2. Had a Spiritual Awakening
3. Have a legitimate (unselfish reason) for being there.
4. Stay in fit spiritual condition.

[NoelleR]

“Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so...

We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status...

So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there...

Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place?...”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is exactly what the BB says. Personally I can't see how anybody could interpret the last two sentences to mean 'going to 12th step someone' only, but then, that's just me.

I read the first two paragraphs to mean that, not only I can go anywhere, but I should be able to go anywhere, as long as I am spiritually fit. After all, we encounter these situations daily, and can and should be able to deal with them.

....and Furthermore, I understand the 2nd paragraph to say that if I somehow feel that I "can't" go some places, that I somehow I can't deal with some of these situations, then I have an alcoholic mind and there is something wrong with my spiritual status.....and I best get to work on that.....


NoelleR

Quotes:BB-1st Edition

[sugErspun]

Weddings and driving ourselves...

To relate a recent story. A close relative of mine got married, the hotel and reception area were a few miles apart so they had rented some shuttles to take people from the reception back to the hotel. Generally a pretty good idea and keeps people who know they are probably going to get drunk off the roads.

I drove myself, for 2 reasons. A> I could leave anytime I wanted to or felt that I needed to B> If someone needed a ride to somewhere other than the hotel ~ I was available. The wedding was fun, a lot of people drank too much..I stayed the entire time and even went back to the hotel lobby to hang out with my relatives that I rarely get to spend time with. The lobby stopped selling alcohol, and these folks were talking about going to a store to buy some. Without a second thought, I said: "If someone will ride with me and gives me the money, I will go buy whatever you guys want." So I drove and bought a case of beer, a cousin went with me ~ I brought it back and spent a couple more hours hanging out with them.

I had a really great time, and not for a second did I think about taking a drink, want to take a drink, nor did I get any weird pleasure by putting the beer on the counter and paying the cashier (there was no 'vicarious' pleasure in any of this).

I have another relative who has been sober much longer than I have, they asked me how I could stand being around all that alcohol (this is an AA member btw). I said "I was actually interested in just hanging out with my family."

This is not the first time a situation like this has come up, or that I have driven someone to buy liqour to keep them off the road. They used to ask me "Don't you feel tempted?" or "I feel bad drinking around you."

They don't ask that anymore..they have their brother, cousin, nephew back and we are all better for it.


(I am not saying for folks to go out and do this: I am saying that our lives are not something that we avoid because of alcoholism)

Am I free or not?

[REZ]

I agree with what the Big Book says. I can go to bars and social functions where alcohol is served if I have a good reason and I am in a good place spiritually. Even then, I must be vigilant. Alcohol is sneaky, cunning, baffling and powerful. I must ask my HP to help me not drink. I've been in many situations where a drink was offered to me or even handed to me. It would be very easy to go have a drink if I am not aware of the situation and my powerlessness over alcohol.

[CarolD]

Belated Em!

[Firehazard]

If you go to the barbershop your going to get a haircut

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Firehazard

If you go to the barbershop your going to get a haircut

Not if you are bald. We either get recovered and go on with life, or we tip toe about, huddling together, scared of what's waiting out there "doing pushups". How attractive is that?

The program of action that is clearly laid out in the Big Book indicates we can do the work, remain spiritually fit, recover and have the problem removed, WE can walk anywhere free. This has been my experience. How attractive is that?