Sharing at meetings

[tomvlll]

I've heard the most unrelated or irrelevant crap in meetings and I just wanted to get other's takes on their approach to sharing at meetings.
[I should qualify the above by saying a great deal of said crap came from my own mouth.]


Now, I try to focus on a newcomer in the meeting and tell that person:" This is how I was and this is how I used the program of of AA as outlined in the BB to make that situation better.

The reason I use that approach is that from my experience, newcomers get the impression that AA is a group therapy session where you unload your problems before the group. The reason they get this impression is because that is what they hear in meetings. Many times with the "closer" ....and that's why I come to meetings".
( Message to newcomer-the way you treat alcoholism is to attend meetings).

comments?

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by tomvlll

I've heard the most unrelated or irrelevant crap in meetings and I just wanted to get other's takes on their approach to sharing at meetings.
[I should qualify the above by saying a great deal of said crap came from my own mouth.]

Once upon a time it was SOP to tell newcomers to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in their mouth for at least the first 6 months of sobriety. This filtered out most of the "irrelevant crap".

Rumor has it that most meetings had to drop this practice when the Courts and treatment centers started sending newcomers to AA. Seems it was chasing most of them away (before they put their dollar in the basket).

[keithj]

After a while, tomvlll, you learn to sit comfortably with this nonesense and still share a message of recovery of your own. I carry the message I need to hear.

Still, a lot of really solid groups have been born out of frustration with that kind of sharing.

[navysteve]

Now, I try to focus on a newcomer in the meeting and tell that person:" This is how I was and this is how I used the program of of AA as outlined in the BB to make that situation better.

I think that is the best approach Tom, we have to remember that AA is not a hot-bed of mental health, people come in here with alot of different problems and they want answers- it is important we show them what answers we do have.

Once upon a time it was SOP to tell newcomers to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in their mouth for at least the first 6 months of sobriety. This filtered out most of the "irrelevant crap".

They still do that out here, the problem is the guys who are saying it spew more garbage and venom at everyone else that they make the program seem like something no one would want. I have alot more tolerance for the new person who vomits up garbage in a meeting than someone who has been around awhile, I know I should have the same level of tolerance but damn- I am only human.

When I come across this problem in AA I often try to cite the great pu-bah Bill W ( Hey they won't listen to me, maybe they will listen to him). Bill wrote a great article in the Grapevine about this. You can see it is an old problem ( as most are in AA)

Problems Other Than Alcohol: What Can Be Done About Them?

[justanothrdrunk]

Unrleated to what? Irrelevant with respect to what? Your interests? (that sounds harsh, not trying to be snotty)

I do agree that probably the best way to help the newcomer when it's your turn to share (if that's your goal) is to do what you describe. Though I'll go a step further and say that I think the overall best way to help the newcomer is by simply taking an interest in them.

Most of the meetings I attend are step meetings. In that regard, I do my best to share about my experience with that step (the step we are discussing that week). I don't tend to think about how much I may or may not be helping anyone else in the room. My experience is what it is - if that's helpful to someone else, that's just gravy.

When listening to others, I don't have any expectations except for some of the relevant traditions - no outside issues, politics, gossip, etc. If someone was sharing and started in about some outside political issue or something, I would interrupt and remind them of the traditions.

Outside of that, who am I to judge what is relevant or not?

And what I mean by that is for many years alcohol ruled my life. Every aspect of my existance was ruled by alcohol. Thankfully, that is no longer the case. However, I'm still dealing with some of the same personal defects (as I suspect we all are). I'm also trying (constantly) to improve my emotional and spiritual health. And I know that every move I make has an emotional and/or spiritual impact.

Let's say I go out and buy a dog. I share in a meeting about buying a dog. I may not have the exact right words to explain how this dog has affected my spiritual condition. But I know that everything I do affects my spiritual condition... I'm probably not explaining this very well...

In another regard, when I'm in a room and someone is sharing about whatever - it's because my HP put me there and wants me to hear what I'm hearing. Sometimes it's tough for me to figure out what I can learn from that. Maybe I need to learn to be patient. Maybe I need to learn to be more assertive so I can bring up in the group conscience about keeping shares on topic.

My point is, I don't compartmentalize other's sharing into relevant and irrelevant categories. Every alcoholic's experience is relevant in my opinion.

I will admit that my opinion probably does not follow the traditions to the letter or the singleness of purpose. As such, should something like this come up in the context of a group conscious discussion, I would certainly go with whatever the group decides (say if the group decided to put measures into place to help ensure sharing stays on topic in the opinion of a certain person of group of people).

Just my opinion about that. Not trying to sound harsh and say that your ideas about what may be relevant or not are wrong or bad.

[jimhere]

In my group, we ask you not to share beyond your experience with what was read (We use a short passage from the book). If you do, we will ask that you not share about that step until you've taken the step, but to please share from where you are currently at.

In my old home group, new people (group members) can't share in the meeting until they've completed a Fifth Step with their sponsor.

These approaches filter out most of the bullshit.

[tkdan]

Yeah I see this from newcomers and those that have been around for awhile. I know what I need to focus on for my recovery and why I'm in the meeting in the first place. Yes it can be aggravating, but I view it as an opportunity to practice "love and tolerance". That being said, I'm only human, so I do catch myself from thinking at times, what in the hell does this have to do with alcoholism or recovery.

[navysteve]

Unrleated to what? Irrelevant with respect to what? Your interests? (that sounds harsh, not trying to be snotty

Unrelated to alcoholism- it isn't harsh it is love in action. If you come into AA and share about your relationship problems you open the door to unqualified input from unqualified experts- when you share about alcoholism ( not everything is about your alcoholism) you open the door to the ONE THING WE HAVE IN COMMON. We all have lots of problems which lots will have to be done, the meeting is for only one of our problems. People die when they are denied the message

[Cubile75]

I think I know what you are talking about... Making a share like it's group therapy and all the attendant woes, trials and tribulations of life... my husband (wife) is leaving me, my car was repossessed, my son disowned me.... Is that what you mean? If it gets to the point where it is just melodrama and self pity... Yea, I hate that... If a problem arises in a persons life and that individual applies the 12 steps to the resolution or attempt at resolution, of the problem, and they share it... I don't mind that at all...

In a couple of my meetings there are people with years of sobriety that have to speak every damn meeting... exactly the same script... seemingly memorized... and, often shared out of context with the general topic of the meeting.... maybe that helps the person who is in very early sobriety, well, it does... but after hearing the same exact same thought and cautionary tale multiple times it starts to take on an attitude of preaching... I hate that more...

I like to hear wonder and awe at the power of the program and God and how, in surprising (for the speaker and everyone else) ways our problem is solved... We are humbled by it.

Humility... That's it, that's what I like to hear... The power is greater than us, than our problems... and we never cease to be amazed...

Mark

[justanothrdrunk]

Originally Posted by navysteve

Unrelated to alcoholism- it isn't harsh it is love in action. If you come into AA and share about your relationship problems you open the door to unqualified input from unqualified experts- when you share about alcoholism ( not everything is about your alcoholism) you open the door to the ONE THING WE HAVE IN COMMON. We all have lots of problems which lots will have to be done, the meeting is for only one of our problems. People die when they are denied the message

Point I was trying to make is that I find a tough time not tying something in as being related to alcoholism.

Yes, we do have lots of problems. Aren't many of those problems rooted in my disease? Not that I can use the disease as an excuse for having a given problem.

Of course, that may be the alcoholic in me trying to rationalize anything and everything.

As an alcoholic, isn't everything I do related to alcoholism? (not a rhetorical question) And in that I mean, as alcoholism being a disease of mind, body, and spirit.

Here's an example of something which I spoke with my sponsor.

I'm going on a camping trip to the BWCA in a few weeks. A couple guys who are friends of friends and are flying in from California. I told my sponsor that I'm more worried about them having a good time on the trip than myself and I couldn't decide if it was a good thing or not. As in, good that I'm putting others first. Bad that I seem to think I somehow have control over the trip and their having fun or not - and if they don't have fun it's my fault. To me, this is a discussion about defects and not really camping - camping is just the circumstance.

[McGowdog]

In my group, the chairperson for the next meeting is picked at the end of the current meeting. That chairperson comes with a prepared topic. They read a bit from the book (164) or traditions long form, discuss their current experience with it, then we have a timed 3 minute meditation. The chairperson then calls on people to share. At the end of the shares, we have about 30 minutes of crossfire. That's where you can ask anybody a question about the topic. If you're not on the step being discussed, you share on where you are at in the steps. There's no passing in our group.

At most other meetings I go to (besides another closed group or their two young peoples meetings), they open with the serenity prayer, read announcements, read the Daily Reflections, the Preamble, ask for out of town guests to announce their first name and where they're from, ask if anybody is there for their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd meeting since their last drink, ask for birthdays and give chips for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year, 18 months, multiples of years, and you get a chip and a ((hug)), then they pass the basket and while that's going around, we have introductions...

Then when all that's done the birthday people share on how they got that much sobriety, then the chair person asks, "Does anyone have a topic?" It's now 35 minutes past the hour. I say under my breath, "Chair the f&%$ing meeting." Then someone comes up with a topic or the chairperson says, "The Daily Reflections has a topic in it." Or they say, "Let's talk about gratitude."

Whether there's a good topic or not, I try to think about what step I'm on and if I have a recent experience strength and hope with the topic being discussed (or the step I'm currently on if the topic is gratitude or something) and what came of it. I try to keep my share to 3 minutes or less if there's a bunch of people or go as much as 5 minutes if there's more people and I've got something to say. Yesterday, the topic was on the 8th Step and people were talking about shame and forgiving yourself as the topic came out of the Daily Reflections and I was going to talk about something quite different and how I use the Sacrament of Pennance to find out just how absolutely guilty I really am and my need for forgiveness from God and how I need to go to the people I harmed and clear up the wreckage I caused. Maybe next time.

Oh yeah, and at the end of the meeting, someone reads the 9th Step Promises and at the end of that, everyone (except me) chants, "Work work work."

Here's a copy of that Daily Reflections that inspired that topic;

Originally Posted by daily reflections from yesterday

TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, pp. 79 - 80

Only through positive action can I remove the remains of guilt and shame brought on by alcohol. Throughout my misadventures when I drank, my friends would say, "Why are you doing this? You're only hurting yourself." Little did I know behavior caused grave wounds to my soul. Step Eight provides me with a way of forgiving myself.
I alleviate much of the hidden damage when I made my list of those I have hurt. In making amens, I free myself of burdens, thus contributing to my healing.

[navysteve]

Point I was trying to make is that I find a tough time not tying something in as being related to alcoholism.

Not everything is tied to alcoholism, the Big Book points alot of the things that are out to us and even gives us guidelines.

[justanothrdrunk]

Originally Posted by navysteve

Not everything is tied to alcoholism, the Big Book points alot of the things that are out to us and even gives us guidelines.

Can you cite? I wanna check that out. Sounds like good info for me.

[tomvlll]

Originally Posted by Cubile75

I think I know what you are talking about... Making a share like it's group therapy and all the attendant woes, trials and tribulations of life... my husband (wife) is leaving me, my car was repossessed, my son disowned me.... Is that what you mean? If it gets to the point where it is just melodrama and self pity... Yea, I hate that... If a problem arises in a persons life and that individual applies the 12 steps to the resolution or attempt at resolution, of the problem, and they share it... I don't mind that at all...

Mark

Yes. Precisely.

[navysteve]

Can you cite? I wanna check that out. Sounds like good info for me.

Our stories disclose in a general way...

BB page 58

"I came to work on Tuesday morning. I remember I felt irritated that I had to be a salesman for a concern I once owned. I had a few words with the bras s, but nothing serious. Then I decide d to drive to the country and see one of my prospects for a car. On the way I felt hungry so I stopped at a roadside place where they have a bar. I had no intention of drinking. I just thought I would get a sandwich. I also had the notion that I might find a customer for a car at this place, which was familiar for I had been going to it for years. I had eaten there many times during the months I was sober. I sat down at a table and ordered a sandwich and a glass of milk. Still no thought of drinking. I ordered another sandwich and decided to have another glass of milk. "SUDDENLY THE THOUGHT CROSSED MY MIND THAT IF I WERE TO PUT AN OUNCE OF WHISKEY IN MY MILK IT COULDN'T HURT ME ON A FULL STOMACH. I ORDERED A WHISKEY AND POURED IT INTO THE MILK. I VAGUELY SENSE I WAS NOT BEING ANY TOO SMART, BUT I REASSURED AS I WAS TAKING THE WHISKEY ON A FULL STOMACH. The experiment went
so w ell that I ordered another whiskey and poured it into more milk. That didn't seem to bother me so I tried another." Thus started one more journey to the asylum for
Jim. Here was the threat of commitment, the loss of family and position, to say nothing of that intense mental and physical suffering which drinking always caused him. HE HAD MUCH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HIMSELF AS AN ALCOHOLIC. YET ALL REASONS FOR NOT DRINKING WERE EASILY PUSHED ASIDE IN FAVOR OF THE FOOLISH IDEA THAT HE
COULD TAKE WHISKEY IF ONLY HE MIXED IT WITH MILK!

BB page 36- These are the types of stories that hold weight in AA

Many a man, yet dazed from his hospital experience, has stepped over the threshold of that home into freedom. M any an alcoholic who entered there came away with an answer. He succumbed to that gay crowd inside, who laughed at their own misfortunes
and understood his. Impressed by those who visited him at the hospital, he capitulated entirely when, later, in an upper room of this house, he heard the story of some man whose experience closely tallied with his

BB 160- This is perhaps the most important example I can think of at the moment, by hearing the story of someone who has had a similar path to you is the means by which we open the door. If I go into a meeting and share about shooting heroin ( which I have done) and discuss heroin withdrawl there may be a few people in the room who identify with that, but there will likely be an equal number of people who do not identify with that. I cannot reach them and be a vessel of God's love, if I stick to the one thing we all have in common I am more likely to carry the message to more people

[bballdad]

there are all levels of sanity and insanity at meetings.
there are also all levels of spirituality.
We can all fit in there somewhere if we want too.

[FightingIrish]

I have been noticing recently when I share at a rehab or similar place, talking about how it goes with booze is received particularly well.

[Cubile75]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

I have been noticing recently when I share at a rehab or similar place, talking about how it goes with booze is received particularly well.

??

[FightingIrish]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The last couple of times I spoke at a rehab, I talked about booze. How I drank. Examples of powerlessness and unmanagability. Lots of people nodded. On a few occasions I was the only speaker at this A.A. meeting we brought in to talk about booze.

[bballdad]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The last couple of times I spoke at a rehab, I talked about booze. How I drank. Examples of powerlessness and unmanagability. Lots of people nodded. On a few occasions I was the only speaker at this A.A. meeting we brought in to talk about booze.

absolutely,thats a good way to go,works good.A little grey haired lady spoke when I picked up my last chip.
I identified with her drinking..surprised me.

[tomvlll]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The last couple of times I spoke at a rehab, I talked about booze. How I drank. Examples of powerlessness and unmanagability. Lots of people nodded. On a few occasions I was the only speaker at this A.A. meeting we brought in to talk about booze.

"Speaking' is different than sharing in the context of of this post.


Were you you brought in as a speaker, or did you just raise your hand and share?

I've done a couple of those gigs at rehabs.
It's a little different animal, because not everybody in your audience are alkies. Usually most are drug addicts.

[FightingIrish]

Gotcha...my bad. We were asked to bring in an A.A. meeting, and three of us generally share/qualify before turning it over to people from the facility.

Originally Posted by tomvlll

"Speaking' is different than sharing in the context of of this post.


Were you you brought in as a speaker, or did you just raise your hand and share?

I've done a couple of those gigs at rehabs.
It's a little different animal, because not everybody in your audience are alkies. Usually most are drug addicts.