making Amends...

[24hrsAday]

making Amends means trying to make things right.. to correct a Wrong.. since we are talking about step #8 this month at my A.A. group i would like to hear other's thoughts on this subject.. thank you in advance!

[Rob B]

Making the list is pretty simple, summoning up the willingness to do it, now that's a different story. I don't have the power to do that, hence the need for God.

Most overlooked and minimized word in the steps is ALL, as in willing to make ammends to them ALL. I know a lot of folks who have made most of their ammends, but are stalling with the last few, I have done this myself. There are always folks more than willing to offer an easier softer way to ammends, they say things like, you'll never finish ammends, or wait until you bump into the person, that will be GOd's will, I don't agree. I have an accountability group where we are free to ask each other where are you with ammends, prayer, meditation, sponsoring etc..this has sharpened me, and used my ego in a productive manner. A friend gave me a prayer to work with.
Father, do these unfinished ammends have anything to do with me drinking again?"

I sat with this, and moved my feet, Today I am current, the freedom this has given me can't be described, only experienced.

My experience with ammends is they should be done after consulting a sponsor at all times, the sponsor should have experience, and not offer opinions based on intellect. it is very easy to go off and cause more harm in attempting ammends if we have not done thorough step work up to this point.

[24hrsAday]

made Direct Amends.. the beginning of step #9 (after we make our list) this is something i have "0" experience with..

[McGowdog]

Something else that has been shown to me is the importance of getting clear on the harm. I do that in the 8th Step and become willing to make amends for that. This is where I'm using Sacraments of Pennance to help out.

If you go to someone to make amends, you had better be clear on the harm or you should not even make the approach. Once in a great while, someone from A.A. will actually come to you and make amends to you. The one thing you have a right to is to ask them if they are clear on the harm before they make the amend.

If you go to someone clear on the harm, and maybe even have a clue as to what you might do to set it straight, you're headed in the right direction.

When I approach them, I see if it's a convenient time for them to hear me out or to set the meeting up beforehand. I tell them basically why I'm there and usually say it's what I do to stay sober. I may or may not mention A.A. I tell them this is what I did to harm them. I ask them if they would add to that or if they want to tell me how that affected them (not always, depends on the moment), then I ask them what I can do to set it right. If appropriate, I offer something right there. If it's a monetary amend, I lead with the caysh. "Here's 100 dollars. Can I pay you X-dollars per month until it's paid off?" I arrange the best deal. Then when I'm done, I wish them well and get the flock out of there and leave them alone.

Be brief, be brilliant, be gone.

[jimhere]

I remember asking my sponsor how would I know when I was willing to make amends? He said "You'll hear a really funny noise." I asked "What's it sound like?" And he replied by rapping his knuckles on the table and saying "It sounds like this" (KNOCK! KNOCK! KNOCK!)

[PaulN]

24 - after you have your list, all that remains is doing the next right thing. Rob mentioned it being an important process to where he has a sponsor engaged ... I agree whole heartily. There is a huge difference in making an apology as compared to making an amend. My sponsor helped recognize that difference just before I made each amend and was there immediately afterwords. I broke all my "I'm sorry's" when I was drunk and newly sober. Nobody wanted to hear sorry ... they wanted to see change.

One of my first amends was with a step mother who was very familiar with my membership in AA. The first words out of her mouth when we sat down were, "I'm just not homework, am I?" That was pretty humbling.

This isn't about checking a box or scratching something off a list ... this is about change. This is about change that the prior steps have prepared me for. This is the point in my recovery, where my understanding, acceptance and love for God increased 10 fold.

Having a sponsor who is genuine helped me immensely. He helped keep at the forefront of my mind, that this about correcting a wrong. If it be about paying money back to a person or institution, is was essential I do so. It it was about correcting a harm I had caused an individual, it was imperative I do so.

Of course I was sorry for what I had done. But sorry didn't correct it ... change did and still does.

I can't tell you what you will experience when you proceed with this step but I promise you, you will feel an overwhelming sense of calm & love and an elevated closeness to God. It will become more clear as to why you took the previous steps in preparing to do this and it will fill you with a willingness to move ahead with the growth steps.

I have only one wish ... to be able to see you in person as you begin this process and to see the change that will take place in you. In fellowship, I am right be side you, as we all are. You are now at the point my friend, where we each have to face the world and be the person we have prepared ourselves to be with the assistance of those earlier steps. Enjoy this moment of recovery ... you'll reflect on it often and will be grateful for having experienced it.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jimhere

I remember asking my sponsor how would I know when I was willing to make amends? ...

Ah... I see your sponsor lived down the block from my sponsor.

[navysteve]

24,
My first 8th step list was basically taken directly from my fourth step. Definitely not ALL the people I had harmed. But the way I see it is when I am cleaning up a mess I start with the big stuff first and that is exactly what I did. With subsequent 8th step lists I incorporate the practice of inventory. I also look for behavior patterns on my part. This was essential particularly in my relationships with women. I got married and divorced sober. Afterwards I kept finding myself with the same type of women ( who were bad for me) I tried the ever so popular "don't date anyone in AA" philosophy. I just found sick women outside the rooms. Then I blamed my picker ( ever heard that one- I have a bad picker= its not my fault). Then after a few repeat 4th and 5th steps I noticed I was having to make repeat amends to different people, so the 8th step took on a new meaning for me.

[Rob B]

AH, The dreaded repeat amends, I have had to make a few of those myself. They are very humbling, in my case it has been character assasination, I sometimes can't keep my mouth shut and feel better about me by ripping on you. My last round of amends was mostly this kind of stuff, It is brutal to go up to someone and say, guess what, I'm still an a$$hole, how can I make this right.

I find that I do this a lot less now, GOd is removing this defect, but only after I take action, right now I am current and hope to remain this way, hence the need for actively working 10 and 11 throughout the day, particularly the PAUSE and WATCH directions.

[navysteve]

On the subject of God removing defects. I have found:

God does nothing without our compliance and effort- If I want muscles I need to go to the gym and change my lifestyle.

If I want to grow more in the likeness of my creator I need to change my behaviors. God ain't Santa Claus, he won't just bring me relief from my defects without me being involved. My character defects are directly connected to the amount of amends I will have to make so sitting on six and seven without moving on to steps 8 and nine keeps me sick.

Hope I ain't veering off too far from the intention of this thread

[bballdad]

24
I like to put my amends in the categories mentioned in the big book.If I can find my list,I`ll send it to you via PM.It puts things in perspective for me and clears up any confusion I may have.
After my list is made,and I go over it with my sponsor and pray,then it is time to get with it....
all that I need to get started making those amends is a tiny bit of willingness,the willingness to pray for the willingness to make those amends.God provides all the rest except I do the action.God provides the time,ways,means etc...be back later on this

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by navysteve

On the subject of God removing defects. I have found:

God does nothing without our compliance and effort- If I want muscles I need to go to the gym and change my lifestyle.

If I want to grow more in the likeness of my creator I need to change my behaviors. God ain't Santa Claus, he won't just bring me relief from my defects without me being involved. My character defects are directly connected to the amount of amends I will have to make so sitting on six and seven without moving on to steps 8 and nine keeps me sick.

Hope I ain't veering off too far from the intention of this thread

I think it's online with the original post, I happen to agree with you 100%. God steers the boat, I row.

[navysteve]

God steers the boat, I row

Thanks for the lesson in being concise. I could have just said that

[24hrsAday]

i don't have a list yet.. (except in my head) i need to continue to work the other steps.. i do jump around a bit i'm seeing.. still learning ODAAT..

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

i don't have a list yet.. (except in my head) i need to continue to work the other steps.. i do jump around a bit i'm seeing.. still learning ODAAT..

Hey,

Just take the steps in order. Each one opens the door to the next one, it gives you just enough power to go on.

You know where it says something to the effect of "What an order! I can't go through with it?" Well you can't go through with it. When you are sitting at the First Step, amends looks like a tall order to fill. That's because it is a tall order to fill. But by the time you get there, you'll have the power to do them.

The me that gets to One isn't the me that gets to Nine.
Jim

Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

[24hrsAday]

jim: yes.. i hear they are in order for a reason..

[bballdad]

24,when step 8 comes from the heart,it is the best

[sugErspun]

The majority of my 8th step list came about when I was going over my inventory with the guy who took me through the steps. Pretty much any time I moved into the fourth column (which I always wrote the word "harm" above ~ as I was seeking out the actions, thoughts, attitudes which cause harm) and mentioned someones name, he said "write that name down". Of course this was a separate notebook.

That was "most" of my list. There were a handful of other names that came up as I prayed to recall, or be shown anything that I may have missed..stuff that didnt necessarily have a resentment, fear or otherwise come up in inventory.

But it was just a list of names..then steps 6 and 7, something really happened there that changed me and the willingness to set right those wrongs (facing the music wasn't even really an issue, by grace) came to life. it was not there when I finished my 5th step ~ but it was there by the time I said the seventh step prayer.

All in all - most of the names/harms came directly off my fourth step.

[keithj]

Originally Posted by 24hrsAday

i don't have a list yet.. (except in my head) i need to continue to work the other steps

24hrsAday,

Please forgive my asking, but have you done the 7th step prayer? If so, you can make a list. It can be done today. You may not be willing yet to make the amend, but the list can be made with no further requirement of continuing the other steps.

I don't want to lose the spiritual magic by being too detailed, but I've found it useful to take my 4th step inventory, list all the people I've harmed and how I harmed them, and then any others I can think of. There's my list for Step 8.

Further, I separate that list into those I'm willing to seek out right now and those I'm not. Or those I don't know how to find. For those I'm willing, I get right to it (after consulting my sponsor). For those I'm not willing, I pray for willingness. Eventually, those names in the unwilling list creep over onto the willing list. Then I make the amend and cross them off.

It's not really any more complicated than that. I don't believe that any good comes from waiting, assuming of course that one is sincere about wanting to make right the harm done. God knows I've screwed up by wanting to cross someone off the list instead of wanting to set things right.

[sugErspun]

Originally Posted by keithj

24hrsAday,

Please forgive my asking, but have you done the 7th step prayer? If so, you can make a list. It can be done today. You may not be willing yet to make the amend, but the list can be made with no further requirement of continuing the other steps.

I don't want to lose the spiritual magic by being too detailed, but I've found it useful to take my 4th step inventory, list all the people I've harmed and how I harmed them, and then any others I can think of. There's my list for Step 8.

Further, I separate that list into those I'm willing to seek out right now and those I'm not. Or those I don't know how to find. For those I'm willing, I get right to it (after consulting my sponsor). For those I'm not willing, I pray for willingness. Eventually, those names in the unwilling list creep over onto the willing list. Then I make the amend and cross them off.

It's not really any more complicated than that. I don't believe that any good comes from waiting, assuming of course that one is sincere about wanting to make right the harm done. God knows I've screwed up by wanting to cross someone off the list instead of wanting to set things right.

Agreed, absolutely.

I think the most important to know about the 8th step: it isn't possible to know what harm I caused without a solid fourth step, which cannot be done without truly jumping off at the 3rd step ~ which of course makes no sense if I have not "Experienced" the first step.

I assume that when there is a thread about the 8th step, that the previous seven have been taken (the 8th step for me was really nothing more than a formality). I closed my 3rd step prayer by saying the seventh step prayer ~ I "knew" to the core of me that I was safe, and that the strength needed (power needed) to move through 8 and 9 was at my disposal.

I cannot make ammends, I don't have the power to do so. But after the first seven ~ it really is a matter of "knocking on a door" as Jim put so perfectly.

Do I trust this power? Do I have any other choice than to make these ammends?

The steps are in order for a very good reason. It can be damaging to try to make ammends before their proper time.

(edit - I would like to add that there is a section in the book, about the 8th/9th steps that state "we may not overcome our drinking problem" if we skip this step or don't complete it. I feel this statement is true, but it was not a motivator in any way to taking action on these steps. Certain sentences in the book can be taken as "we do this because we fear drinking again" ~ which just was not the case with me. And never would I tell someone the reason that I am approaching them, possibly out of the blue, is so I never have to drink again...it is always "I was wrong and need to set this right".)

[CarolD]

By making amends swiftly ....I keep my mind uncluttered
thus allowing me to live in the joy of serenity...

[Charmie]

i agree,all the steps are defo in order for a reason,i found when i came to writing my 8th step that i was willing to make them all,,i have been blessed with this willingness.my family live a long way away but are coming up for a wedding in a few weeks.this will be my daughter (17),my mum (who at long last i can see as a sick person after previous steps instead of resenting her and her alcoholism!),my sister who is going to be the toughest (she is my best friend in the world and has stuck by me through thick and thin),my sisters husband,and my mums husband (hhmmm,nobody said you had to like everybody! patience,tollerance,kindness and love for fellow man pushed to the limit!).i wrote in another thread about making 2 amends a couple of weeks ago to former employers.what i dint write was that one of them was at a coffee shop,it is in the middle of a field just off a busy main road between two large scottish towns.i got off the bus and proceeded along the path to the coffee shop.it was a beautiful day,the sun was shining,the scenery was beautiful,it was little windy.i didnt feel alone walking down that path.God was with me all the way.all the other steps prepared me for these moments.i truly cannot put into words how amazing this programme is.im getting gushy now so enough!